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What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others?


Harry  
3 Dec 2008 /  #211
You clearly need to stop being ridicules on top of ridicules. RAF did nothing until 1940. Unless you did some secret bombing in September 1939 nobody knows about.

I do wish you would stop with your lies. The RAF raids of September 4 1939 against Wilhemshaven are as secret as they were successful.

But then why should we be surprised to see Poles lying about WWII and what the British did and did not do?

The Government in Exile received an invite at the eleventh hour when it was apparent the commo govt wouldnt attend. It was, naturally, politely declined.

And your source for this is what? All the sources I've read and quoted from agree that the official government was invited first and after uproar caused by not inviting free Poles, representatives of the free Poles were invited. Until the day of the parade nobody knew for sure that the official government wasn't sending anybody.

What self respecting invitee would accept a second thought last minute invite? One can only speculate as to the value GB/the allies placed on Poland's contributions to the war effort in these circumstances.

Well, let's see, how many other free forces were invited? Oh yes, none were.
And what self respecting invitee would attend? Far better to refuse the invite and then spend the next 60+ years lying about not being invited.

I recall you mentioning some Poles did attend. That was in their capacity as integrated member of the GB armed forces.

That context takes the gloss of your spin, doesn't it.

You are mistaking me with somebody else.
And no it doesn't take any 'gloss' off what I'm saying. My point is that the oft told tale about Poles not being invited to the London parade is a lie.

It's strange how your ilk deign to argue the finer points of an invitation if it gives the opportunity to try to cast a bad light on Poland.

Read your own thread mate. A Pole started the discussion of the parade and did so in an attempt to put the British in a bad light. I merely pointed out that he is lying. I'm not making any fine points (unlike a certain somebody who attempts to using the alleged timing of invitation as justification for it being refused), I'm simply stating that both free Poles and the official government of Poland were invited to the parade and neither bothered to turn up.

In my opinion, some of the facts you have given have been bare facts, denied of context.

Facts are fact. Both free and not-so-free Poles were invited to the London parade. The RAF dropped bombs before it dropped leaflets. The British tried to support the Warsaw Uprising but the Americans considered such support not "advantageous for the long-term prospects" of the war. Some Poles were and some are anti-semitic. These are facts. Of course they are facts that some Poles would prefer not to be facts but they are still facts.

Keep it coming though - I enjoy the sport.

Remind me, when was the hunting of Aborigines for sport made illegal in your fine nation?

BTW: "Poms and sporting prowess". is not two words that don't go together, it is three words. Nice counting skills there mate. Oh, and congratulations to you Ozzies for overtaking the Septics and becoming the fattest nation on the planet.
Kilkline 1 | 689  
3 Dec 2008 /  #212
"Poms and sporting prowess".

Better than the Aussies if you look at the Olympics, and football, and the last 2 Rugby World Cups. And we're not a nation that even sees sport as our only means of national pride, unlike some cultural wastelands that I could mention.

It does seem however that Harry is being attacked for daring to question the whole mythology that some Poles have chosen to surround themselves with. He's raised good points that no one has really been able to counter without either getting insulting or giving some pretty woolly answers.

The situation is reminiscent of the accusations that many on here have leveled against Jews e.g. falsely claiming a unique victim status, crying about how other nations should have dropped everything and saved them, a failure to accept that maybe other nations had other priorities at the time.
celinski 31 | 1,258  
3 Dec 2008 /  #213
The British tried to support the Warsaw Uprising but the Americans considered such support not "advantageous for the long-term prospects" of the war. Some Poles were and some are anti-semitic. These are facts.

Can you tell me what the British tried during the "Warsaw Uprising"? Listen to the voices of the ones that were there.

This one speaks of who was in the parade, "Moscow Poles".
Kilkline 1 | 689  
3 Dec 2008 /  #214
The title of this thread should have the word Poland replaced with Britain. I think it would then be at least minimally accurate.
celinski 31 | 1,258  
3 Dec 2008 /  #215
The title of this thread should have the word Poland replaced with Britain

At least Britain was not taken over. Britain still had independence. Is this not what all were fighting for?
IronsE11 2 | 442  
3 Dec 2008 /  #216
falsely claiming a unique victim status, crying about how other nations should have dropped everything and saved them, a failure to accept that maybe other nations had other priorities at the time.

Nail on head.
celinski 31 | 1,258  
3 Dec 2008 /  #217
Nail on head

We were your allies, yes, you should have dropped eveything and helped save Poland. Just as Polish had done for you. "For your Freedom and Ours".
IronsE11 2 | 442  
3 Dec 2008 /  #218
Very funny. I won't take the bait this time but keep trying.
VaFunkoolo 6 | 654  
3 Dec 2008 /  #219
It’s just another example of this one way system displayed by some Englishmen - they can joke about other nations, look down on them, insult them, etc. but are not ready to bear with the same from the the foreigners…. criticism seems to be too much already.

Have you heard of Hells Kitchen?

Well imagine the UK as Gordon Ramsey who is in the kitchen with all these annoying insignificant little fuks who think they know what theyre doing but actually havent got a fukin clue.

Gordon gets pretty tired of telling them where they are going wrong. They might get there eventually, but in the meantime, as Gordon shows us, you have to tell them just what incompetent little fuks they are in order to slap them in to shape

Poland is one of those annoying insignificant little fuks. One that still thinks it knows best.

Fukin twats. As Gordon would say
Harry  
3 Dec 2008 /  #220
Can you tell me what the British tried during the "Warsaw Uprising"?

Just click the link I've provided in this thread which takes you to the website of the Museum of the Warsaw Uprising. There you can find information about the British attempts to supply the Uprising.

We were your allies, yes, you should have dropped eveything and helped save Poland. Just as Polish had done for you. "For your Freedom and Ours".

When did Poland ever fight to save Britain before Britain fought to protect Polish independence?
celinski 31 | 1,258  
3 Dec 2008 /  #221
When did Poland ever fight to save Britain before Britain fought to protect Polish independence?

Now how's this for a silly question? Do you think Polish were fighting and dying for ha ha's. Please give credit where credit is due.
time means 5 | 1,309  
3 Dec 2008 /  #222
Poms and sporting prowess". Where do I stop.

i would back england v australia at football anyday,the last two rugby world cups and what about the olympics?
Then you will no doubt be aware of the Polish contribution.

absolutely-along with lots of other nations.

"Aussies and warm beer

this my friend is were you are wrong. lager as you call beer is served cold. beer as in ale is not.
Bratwurst Boy 11 | 11,792  
3 Dec 2008 /  #223
Polish pilots have destroyed 12% Luftwaffe planes. On every one shot down Polish plane, Poles shot down six German planes (6:1), for example British pilots had (3:1).

Actually I would like to see the evidence for that because I frankly don't believe that.

12 percent of which Luftwaffe planes? In which time frame? When??? Where???
I doubt the quotes...
As far as I know the Luftwaffe had always a good quota during the war, even till near the end...but never one as high as much 1:6, that's ridiculous!!!
IronsE11 2 | 442  
3 Dec 2008 /  #224
Polish pilots have destroyed 12% Luftwaffe planes. On every one shot down Polish plane, Poles shot down six German planes (6:1), for example British pilots had (3:1).

Very impressive! It's just a shame you couldn't defend your own borders. You're worse than the French.

Actually I would like to see the evidence for that because I frankly don't believe that.

The level of English is probably a good indication of the quality of the source.

When Germans have heard for first time Polish conversation in air they have taken it for a very funny English joke.

VaFunkoolo 6 | 654  
3 Dec 2008 /  #225
Now how's this for a silly question? Do you think Polish were fighting and dying for ha ha's. Please give credit where credit is due.

Carol if you actually bothered to read questions and then give an appropriate answer, people might have a little more respect for you
Kilkline 1 | 689  
3 Dec 2008 /  #226
We were your allies, yes, you should have dropped eveything and helped save Poland.

Until you can come to an understanding of how childish and selfish that sounds you will never have any 'closure' on this matter.

Poland never went to war for Britain, Britain did go to war for Poland however. Maybe we didnt go to war in the style and manner which suited Poland but hey, we had a couple of other things on our plate at the time. We won in the end, the Nazis were defeated and 'most' of Europe was free again. Poland was in the 'not so free' bit but at least you werent all being rounded up and lead to gas chambers or being shot en masse in the streets or being forced to live on starvation rations as you were pre-1946.
Harry  
3 Dec 2008 /  #227
Polish pilots fought in the Battle of Britain, where the Polish 303 Fighter Squadron achieved the highest number of kills of any Allied squadron.
....
The 303 Squadron, named after the Polish-American hero, General Tadeusz Kościuszko, achieved the highest number of kills (126) of all fighter squadrons engaged in the Battle of Britain, even though it only joined the combat on August 30, 1940: these 5% of pilots were responsible for a phenomenal 12% of total victories in the Battle.

They did not achieve 126 kills. That is what they claimed. Even Polish historians now say that the true number of kills was actually less than half the claimed number. The number of total verified kills was 44. Which makes 303 the 4th best squadron (although it was the best squadron which flew Hurricanes).

Funny how your article doesn't mention that the top pilot in 303 was Josef František. Not a Polish name but then he wasn't Polish.

Now how's this for a silly question? Do you think Polish were fighting and dying for ha ha's. Please give credit where credit is due.

I think that they were fighting for Poland.
However, you claimed that Poland fought for Britain before Britain fought for Poland. I asked you to tell me when Poland fought for Britain before 3 September 1939. When was it?
celinski 31 | 1,258  
3 Dec 2008 /  #228
if you actually bothered to read questions

When did Poland ever fight to save Britain before Britain fought to protect Polish independence?

[
Question being? I gave you many examples of Polish fighting for others. Do you need a few more?



Actually I would like to see the evidence for that because I frankly don't believe that.

I will write to the onme that posted and get the info for you.
VaFunkoolo 6 | 654  
3 Dec 2008 /  #229
Question being? I gave you many examples of Polish fighting for others. Do you need a few more?

You really are a joke Carol
celinski 31 | 1,258  
3 Dec 2008 /  #230
you claimed that Poland fought for Britain before Britain fought for Poland. I asked you to tell me when Poland fought for Britain before 3 September 1939. When was it?

Can you show me this quote? Prior to 3 Sept. 1939, why would Poland be fighting? Maybe you are confusing this with 1920 when Polish saved Europe from Soviets and gainned her independence. :)
IronsE11 2 | 442  
3 Dec 2008 /  #231
Question being? I gave you many examples of Polish fighting for others. Do you need a few more?

He was a great historian was that youtube. Anyway, I believe the question was:

you claimed that Poland fought for Britain before Britain fought for Poland. I asked you to tell me when Poland fought for Britain before 3 September 1939. When was it?

Please answer.
celinski 31 | 1,258  
3 Dec 2008 /  #232
Please answer.

you claimed that Poland fought for Britain before Britain fought for Poland. I asked you to tell me when Poland fought for Britain before 3 September 1939. When was it?

Show me where I made this claim?

Poland never went to war for Britain, Britain did go to war for Poland however. Maybe we didnt go to war in the style and manner which suited Poland but hey, we had a couple of other things on our plate at the time. We won in the end, the Nazis were defeated and 'most' of Europe was free again. Poland was in the 'not so free' bit but at least you werent all being rounded up and lead to gas chambers or being shot en masse in the streets or being forced to live on starvation rations as you were pre-1946.

If Poland never went to war for Britain then who was that Polish beside you?

What did you have on your plate that would be more important than keeping your word to the ones you told, "we'll be there"?

I guess you never saw the death toll on Non Jewish? Yes we were being killed and lived in inhumane conditions. Some felt a gas chamber would have been more humane that freezing, starving, slaving and watching each other die a slow death. In the end losing our country that we fought to save.

Non Communist continued to live under the conditions you decribe. Food in "Stalin's Communist Poland" was for the ones that were Moscow Poles.
Harry  
3 Dec 2008 /  #233
Question being? I gave you many examples of Polish fighting for others. Do you need a few more?

You haven't given a single example of Poland fighting for Britain before 3 September 1939. You have only given examples of Poles fighting after that date (and even then fighting against the nation which occupied their state).

You said that

We were your allies, yes, you should have dropped eveything and helped save Poland. Just as Polish had done for you.

So now tell me when Poland dropped eveything and helped save Britain before Britain declared war on Germany.

Actually I would like to see the evidence for that because I frankly don't believe that.

Alternatively you can just go here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/303_squadron
IronsE11 2 | 442  
3 Dec 2008 /  #234
Show me where I made this claim?

I was referring to this:

We were your allies, yes, you should have dropped eveything and helped save Poland. Just as Polish had done for you. "For your Freedom and Ours".

Except the hadn't. Had they?
Harry  
3 Dec 2008 /  #235
Except the hadn't. Had they?

Carol's trying to be Polish. Today she's practising a classic Polish debating technique: when losing a debate just start lying; if you can make your lies offensive lies, so much the better.
celinski 31 | 1,258  
3 Dec 2008 /  #236
Where do you see a date? You took the quote from under,



Stop putting words on my reply's.

Thanks, Carol SKI
Harry  
3 Dec 2008 /  #237
Stop putting words on my reply's.

Your exact words were:

We were your allies, yes, you should have dropped eveything and helped save Poland. Just as Polish had done for you. "For your Freedom and Ours".

Please note the use of the past perfect. "Had done". The past perfect is used to talk about actions which take place sometime before a defined point in the past. In this case the defined point in the past is 3 September 1939: when Britain started to fight to protect Polish independence.

So when had Poland fought to save Britain?

No lies here, history has the facts my friend.

You mean like your facts about how Poles weren't invited to the victory parade and how FDR wanted to resupply the Warsaw Uprising but Churchill stopped him and how a Polish squadron was the best squadron in the Battle of Britain?

Carol, those are not facts, they are just lies.
celinski 31 | 1,258  
3 Dec 2008 /  #238
Maybe you are confusing this with 1920 when Polish saved Europe from Soviets and gainned her independence. :)

So when had Poland fought to save Britain?

Want to count this?
Harry  
3 Dec 2008 /  #239
No. The Soviet army was a joke at that time and no threat at all to Britain. And Poland was then fighting for no country other than Poland.
celinski 31 | 1,258  
3 Dec 2008 /  #240
And Poland was then fighting for no country other than Poland.

And you feel if Poland did not stop the Soviet Army that the Soviet Army would have stopped with Poland, I suppose?

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