What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others?

Have you ever even been to Poland for a single day?

I can understand how somebody might not want to move from their new home (although I would submit that such action makes that person American or Australian or whatever much more than Polish) but how to excuse not even bothering to visit a country which you claim to fight for and defend is very simply pathetic.

You fight for Poland but you won't even take a holiday here? Wow, you must love Polska!


What had Poland ever done for the UK? Note the tense? It is the past perfect, which is used to talk about something which happened before a defined point in the past. In this case the defined point is 1939 (i.e. the time at which Ozi Racist claims UK and PL were friends).

So what had Poland ever done for the UK before 1939? Apart from provide troops to the UK's enemies in WWI of course.

[quote=Harry]
Ozi Dan:I am half Polish but all slavic in my genetic make up. I identify strongly with Poland and I am conscious of my heritage. I don't need to be a Polish citizen to be able to identify as being part of a Polish tradition

lmao another guy who thinks drinking a zwyiec makes him a pole
your an aussie-deal with it.

to come on this forum and defend Poland and Australia against people like you.[/quote
a crusader to boot

Prior to 1989 and Poland being free, lol. Do you think before you type?


Let's see you are giving different dates. I do believe we were talking about when Poland was attacked, correct? I also believe many meetings took place where the UK and Poland said they had each others backs,correct? Poland was attacked and with the odds being rather tipped in Soviet/Nazi power Poland still fought a very hard fight and then even after UK did not respond like they said they would, Poland military still went forward to assist UK, correct?

So what's your excuse for not finding a couple of days to come here in the last 20 years?

BTW: I didn't ask you what Poland said it would do for the UK before 1 September 1939, I asked what Poland had done for the UK before 1 September 1939.

I dont know how many times you need things explaining to you. These points have been countered repeedtly and they still arent getting through. I'm surprised you cant speak Polish as English is obviously something you struggle with. You have failed CONSISTENTLY to respond to the number one question which your insane petty arguments raise. Namely: What should Britain have done in 1939?

And give specifics, not general gung-ho Americanisms like 'got your back' and 'be good buddys'.

no mention of the french? so is it fair to say your bigoted views only extend to GB?

I read the french did respond and did a better job than the UK.

Well their 90 divisions did manage to seize three square miles of German territory....

I know such people. People who survived Auschwitz, re-started their lives in England and were welcomed. They have a right to feel bitter, but they don't feel the need to blame Britain. Their country was invaded by Germany and Russia. They suffered and were unable/did not want to return to Poland. Their families suffered at the hands of Hitler and Stalin:

bbc.co.uk/radio4/hometruths/20050117_polish_jo.shtml
(My mother's family)

hmd.org.uk/resources/item/119
(My best friend's grandmother)

Britain was not in a position to guarantee Polish sovereignty. Why then, should Britain be blamed for the 50 years that Poland spent at the hands of communist Russia? The notion of betrayal is an issue of war time politics, and should be condemned to a footnote in history, not put at the forefront! The very fact that Britain chose to enter a war and sacrificed British lives following the invasion of Poland seems to be overlooked by many. I recognise the role played by the Polish in fighting Nazi Germany, and my respect is forever with them. The notion that they were fighting for Britain (or others) is however laughable.

What if Churchill had kept to his word, stood up to Stalin and demanded Polish sovereignty? Would it have changed anything? No. So if Poland's woes were not caused by this political betrayal, it's hardly worth placing such importance on it. What if Churchill had the political might to put operation unthinkable in to action? Would I have wanted my grandparents to fight The Red Army in a potentially brutal war to free Poland. Damn right I wouldn't. It's easy to talk about betrayal without considering the implications of Britain 'keeping it's word', and saving Poland. Poland was royally bent over, blaming Britain for this is quite simply bizarre.

CHURCHILL HAD NO INFLUENCE OVER STALIN


What I object to most, is a xenophobe starting a thread to have a pop at a nation he clearly despises. Still, if someone wants to out themselves as a bigot on a forum, then I guess it is their right to do so. I don't like to generalise, but is is an inferiority complex I have noticed in a number of Australians. Maybe it's because of where their head of state resides.


Why do you choose to reside in a country that betrayed Poland, and left them to Stalin?

Another example of what looks like RealPolitik on the part of the British is the White Paper. How do you explain it? From here, it looks like Britain was the one who stood in the way of people leaving Europe for Palestine. They wouldn't let it happen. Why?

cos they had been playing too many games and promised that area to other ppl too...yknow Laurence of Arabia and all that.....

Unlike the Realpolitik displayed by the Poles: fighting alongside the Germans in WWI and pretending to be their allies before attacking Germans at the first opportunity.

And while Poles love to point out what the UK did at Yalta, they are very quiet about why Pilsudski called the 1921 treaty of Riga an "act of cowardice". The ever loyal Poles had persuaded Ukrainians to fight with them against Russia but when it came time to make peace, Poland decided that the best option was to split the lands of Ukraine between Poland and Russia. Unfortunately the 1920 Treaty of Warsaw very clearly forbade such an act but the Poles just ignored that commitment. The Ukrainian leader, Symon Petliura, was actually interned by the ever loyal Polish government for three years before he managed to escape.

What goes around comes around. For Poland it came around 23 years later and they haven't stopped their hypocritical whining since then.


Possibly because they could see what would happen if a Jewish state was surrounded by Muslim states?

You are posting about Poland I am posting about Britain's White Paper. The White Paper, IMO makes Britain of the time as culpable as the Nazis, just my opinion. Now, this is why I question G.B. They should have let whomever wanted to move to Palestine in.

Jesus wept.

No you just don't like what I have to say. At the very least, Britain should not have continued to hold false promise of coming to help.


I love the USA and was brought up free to "speak out" not under "Communist Poland". I wish USA and all our allies had taken on "Stalin". I cannot change the past, I may be good but not that good. To move to Poland today would mean leaving my family here in the USA just as my Grandfather had to do when he came to the states as "Countryless" in 1951.

lol you crack me up-so funny lol

As asked already: why can't you find the time to even visit the nation you claim to be a part of?


Look at the top of this page. It says "What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others". If you want to talk about how Britain of the time was as culpable as the Nazis, feel free to start a thread about that.

Do either of you have any comment about how Poland sold its Ukrainian allies down the river with the 1921 Treaty of Riga?

You need to understand the difference between limiting immigration to a country at the risk of inflaming the indigeneous population of a strategically important region and the using of industrial methods to liquidate 6 million innocent people.

Because most of it is pure fantasy.


But you only hold Britain responsible? This despite the fact that only the USA had any power to do so?


Made 'countryless' and betrayed by the very country he chose to make his home. Strange.


Now now Kilkline, it would take an ounce of intelligence to distinguish between the two. You're asking a bit much there.

I haven't read about that, specifically, but will look into it and get back with you on it. I am learning a lot at this forum.

And you need to understand the tactics of bait and switch. Allow me to explain: Poles (Plastic and otherwise) whine for 35 pages about being betrayed. Some people tell them to get over it, others tell them to stop lying. Then somebody points out that if Poles want to see really good examples of how to betray allies, they should look at what Poland did to Ukraine in 1921. A Pole then posts about how GB is as bad as the Nazis. All discussion about how the Poles stabbed the Ukrainians in the back and then stole their land is supposed to stop as everybody is distracted by the statement about GB and the Nazis.

Next up we get more racist drivel from Nazi Do, sorry, got the letters the wrong way there, I meant to say Ozi Dan, about how he's not a racist but loves to race bait and how I'm a liar because I tell the truth.


Here you go: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_of_Riga

Particular attention to the part which says


Also check out what happened to Symon Petliura. And how 190 Ukrainian Oxthodox churches were destroyed by Poles when Western Ukraine was part of Poland (i.e. after Poland had performed the Riga back stab) and another 150 were converted to Roman Catholic churches. And how the number of Ukrainian language schools in Western Ukraine fell from 440 to just 8. The list of other things Poland should be ashamed of when talking about their former allies in Ukraine is long. Poles usually solve the problem by just not talking about their former allies in Ukraine.

That's nothing but bs. What a lame excuse.

Choices were limited, at least he lived to tell. Of the ones that could have helped the USA was the least responsible and in 1939 had not signed on to help, nor where they asked.



I plan to but it is not like flying into Florida for a week. I'll let you know ahead of time so you can set up my suprize party, ok? :)))


No, I never said I hold Britain soley responsible. Britain did sign saying they would help as did France, USA had not. I still feel if everyone stood their ground and told Stalin he was crazy, he would have backed down.

I am researching through google on my own right now. I don't rely exclusively on Wiki for my information, lol. If you do, that's alright. I prefer to be a bit more thorough, tyvm.

A man can dream cant he?

Although maybe I'm insane as one definition of insanity is to do the same thing again and again and expect a different outcome.


You forgot the last bit about how the slanderers will then return to their original whine that was answered 10 pages earlier.


Thats not a response. Thats a childish bleat.


Still not answering the question are you Cellinski. Do you think people wont notice?

BTW


Now, what's all this talk about a dispute between Germany and Poland over Gdańsk if it was a "free" city?


Probably pissed Germany off more than the Gdańsk issue.

Britain wanted to avoid war at all costs. The treaty was signed as a deterrent to Hitler, not a declaration of undying love and brotherhood towards Poland. Britain was using Poland, just as Poland was using Britain. A relationship forged due to common goals, not because Britain or Poland owed each other anything. Why don't you check out some of Neville Chamberlain's quotes regarding the Polish corridor for an indication of how important Poland was to Britain.

You have rather a rosy view of international politics!

Rather like Poland signed up to help Ukraine.

Although after being helped win the war Poland promtly nicked half of Ukraine and set about repressing the people of that region.

And Poles have the gall to talk about being betrayed....

Ah, Harry, this is your Red Herring...

How is it a red herring? Poland not only betrayed its allied (the Ukrainians) after they had fought for Poland but also stole half the country and oppressed the people who lived there. What gives Poles the right to whine when the same happens to them?

Although of course it is not the same: Britain at worst decided to stand aside and let the Germans and Russians take Poland and oppress the Poles; Poland actually took half of Ukraine and oppressed the Ukrainians (while standing aside while the Russians took the other half and oppressed the Ukrainians who lived there).