What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others?

Doesn't answer the question but it made me chuckle ;)


No dear, you do.


I honestly don't know where to begin!

Keeping true to the Franco-Polish military convention the Saar Offensive started on September 7. The attack did not result in any diversion of German troops from the Polish campaign. All together there were approximately 110 French and British divisions in the West against the 23 German divisions. If all-out assault was to be carried out Germany would have to divert some of the troops to the Western front. Germany would have been forced early on in the war to fight on two fronts and most important on its own soil, which would greatly demoralized its troops. But because of British insecurity On September 12 in Abbeville France it was decided that all offensive actions were to be halted immediately by the Anglo-French War Council. As a result; Gamelin ordered his troops to stop short of the Siegfried Line and withdrawn to the Maginot Line. Poland was not notified of this decision and Gamelin had an audacity to lie about it by informing marshal Śmigły that half of his divisions were engaging the enemy, and that French advances had forced the Germans to withdraw at least 6 divisions from Poland. Than French general informed Polish general that the planned major offensive on the western front had to be postponed from 17th to 20th of September. Yet another obvious lie knowing the decision reached in Abbeville on the 12th.

The arguments were made by some historians that if the initiative was seized by the Allies at that time the war could have been finished right there and then. Whether that is true or not is irrelevant to this discussion. These are the facts; and when you deliberately lie about the situation on the ground to your ally and break previous agreements without even notifying them of your decision I call it a betrayal. You can only speculate as to the motive for this but not if this is an act of a betrayal or not. Knowing the facts there is no doubt it’s a betrayal. We got screwed by everyone involved; Germans, British, French and Russians, but you paid dearly for your indecision or rather cautious stand early on in the war. Read about Abbeville conference, Saar offensive, Sitzkrieg and you will know what is subjective notion and what is fact.

What was then? Please specify.


No, my wife is a 'Pole in the diaspora'. Thats different from claiming nationality from ancestry.

Through Germany.

It was not just Britain, look at what France was saying to Poland as they were preparing for invasion, in hindsight it's almost comical,"threats to withhold assistance".

[quote]Polish forces had been partly mobilized in secret in the summer of 1939. Full mobilization was to be declared in late August, but was halted at French insistence. Mobilization was again declared on August 30, but halted to French threats to withhold assistance, and then re-issued the following day. As a result of this, only about a third of Polish forces were equipped and in place on Sept. 1.

ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=28

And the USA?


Stating that Britain did not lauch an immediate land invasion of Germany is a fact. Labelling th e reasons for this a betrayal is your opinion (and therefore subjective).

Glad to be of assistance.

At least the USA didn't say they were going to help and declare war on Nazi's and then not show, Britain and France did and then continued to lie to Poland and say they were coming.

I would like to ask BB what German's say about Polish being betrayed?

This just gets better.

How was Britain to get there with the German Navy and Luftwaffe noticing?

So you are saying you could make it over Germany to drop leaflets, just not bombs?

Them too but they were not involved at this time. That was later at the Yalta conference.


I’m not labeling this as such, I’m pointing out the lies given and it is a fact.

The Second Reich, also known as The German Empire, ruled by the Hohenzollern dynasty, in the areas known as Prussia and Brandenburg, from 1871 to 1919, they fell with the ending of World War I. During this Reich the "Iron Chancellor" Otto Von Bismark united Germany, and set the stage for World War I.

I would hope if you attacked they would notice. This would coincide with a declaration of war.


No reguardless of reason, it's betrayal.

Leaflets were dropped on Germany in 1942.

You would have had to attach bombs to the leaflets then send in your ground forces.
Both bombs and leaflets should have fell on Germany during September of '39. '42 was too late, wtf??? What's the point?

I told you so before....it would have been better for Poland to at least negotiate with Germany as the demands (Danzig, a corridor to East Prussia, giving back the territories which belonged to Germany before and had a german population of more than 75 percent) weren't unreasonable in my eyes.

But they preferred to hide behind promises, rejecting ANY talks (not even allowing a railway straight from Germany to East Prussia), where one look at a map should have told you alot about the futility...

Where they betrayed? If it makes you feel better thinking so...okay.
But most of it was just un-smart diplomacy and un-smart policy on the polish side!

Where did you c&p that from? When did OvB unify Germany again?


No, that is your opinion. It is my opinion that you are a moron.

This was within the first 2 1/2 weeks.


ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=28

I believe this would have greatly helped Poland. I have no idea why Britain and France waited.

This is fine you have a right to your opinion, even if you cannot understand facts.

Simple Britain had an empire they had to worry about. French - well they are French.

After the ending of the Franco-Prussian war in 1871.

The aircraft needed to drop leaflets in a one off missions is significantly different to the fully equipped modern airforce required to battle the Luftwaffe.

What fighter aircraft did Britain have at this time to counter the Germans?

What Bombers?

What would we invade with when we had such a small army?

Do you know? If you dont then you how can you have an such a firmly held opinion on Britains capabilities at this time?

You seem to talk in general emotive terms and phrases with no concern for practicalities picking and choosing bits that you can provide a largely irrelevant link for.

I'll repeat:

1)England had only a small regular army
2)the only way to get forces into Poland was via the North Sea which the German navy and Luftwaffe were strong enough to prevent.
3)most French and British generals thought the Poles would be able to defend themselves better than they did, and that the Germans would wear themselves out attacking the Maginot line.

4)if it all went awrong Germany would be masters of Europe entire, not just the continent.

Germany would be masters of Europe, not just the continent? That sounds like a Bushism, sorry Kilkline.

I think you meant to say continental Europe.

In pure terms, Hitler was at an instant advantage as he had had more time to plan. He could have gone back to the drawing board a hundred times just to more fully think his various strategies through.

Assembling troops and other deployments for war doesn't happen overnight. Look at America, they had been planning attacks on Iraq and Afghanistan for years. The final months before 9/11 involved a lot of intensive operations to put everything in the right place.

In Britain we still refer, rightly or wrongly, to continental Europe as 'the continent'. Basically we mean everywhere but the British Isles. Its the same when people talk about America they really mean the USA and not the continent of America. Geographically inaccurate terms but part of the language nonetheless.

Q. What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others?

A. NOTHING (Polish Jokes)

Maybe if you used this on Germany?


orionbooks.co.uk/extras/IvanRendall_TheSpitfire.pdf

It's better to ask yourself: WHY WAS GERMANY THE ONLY COUNTRY THAT BUILT UP A WEHRMACHT AFTER WWI??????
Why didn't Britain have a better air force considering the allied victory????

Maybe, but I always said continental Europe as a Brit. Anyway, it doesn't really matter.

A group of men sat in judgement of Germany. They were known as the 'Big Four'.

© IWM

Vittorio Orlando - Italian premier who wanted territory promised in Treaty of London (1915), and maybe more.
David Lloyd George - British prime minister who wanted the support of the British public by punishing Germany.
Georges Clemenceau - French prime minister who wanted the Treaty to prevent Germany from attacking France ever again.
Woodrow Wilson - American president who wanted the League of Nations formed, and a fair treaty for Germany.

The Fourteen Points transformed into the Treaty:

Fourteen Points Treaty of Versailles
Reduce military to the 'lowest point consistent with domestic safety'. Germany’s army was reduced to 100,000 men. They were forbidden to have tanks or an air force. The area between France and Germany - the Rhineland - was made into a demilitarised zone, which meant that no military forces could enter this area.

SOMEONE CARE TO FILL IN THE BLANKS????????

'An independent Poland to be established, with free and secure access to the Sea' Territory from Russia taken by the Germans was used to create Poland. Land from East Prussia gave Poland access to the Sea. Upper Silesia, a strong industrial centre between Poland and Germany, was given temporary independence.

Which is why Poland got Gdańsk!

GEE, WHAT HAPPENED HERE LQQK:

'Freedom of the Seas.' (Britain protested this) Germany was not allowed to keep any submarines, and could only keep six large ships.

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????

USED WHAT?? You've given me a link to an anecdote.

Can you answer my question or not? What aircraft? Number? Fighting strength?

You cant because you dont know and cant be bothered finding out because it will shatter your carefully created victim mentality.

Please answer the basic questions I asked.


Why dont you ask yourself that question and find out the answer by actually doing some reading rather than showing your ignorance of history with every post you make. I can understand why Harry got so p1ssed off in the end with you and Cellinski as its like arguing with school children who havent got to the European history module in school yet.

Spoon-feeding you is getting boring.