What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others?

Anyway, the final answers are:

An independent nation state with little or nothing by way of ethnic or religious tension,
a distinct national culture that can continue to exist where it has been taken abroad,
a reasonably strong position in the group of countries with which it shares a similar modern history,
people who have moved away to better their lives, some of whom are returning (compare this with Ireland, for example). There are possibly greater effects that could be noted if one were to look further back into history.

Other possibilities could have left Poland in a similar position to Belarus or Ukraine - still too much under the sway of Moscow to be able to make choices about what it may do; division between neighbouring countries (Germany, Russia) that could be with or without a Polish minority, leaving the strong possibility of ethnic or religious tension; really dodgy food culture.

I think that answers the question, even if I haven't entirely explained the exact processes by which this has come about.

---

By the way, the skip I had been looking at (see my last post), a load of bricks and rubble had been dumped on top of the fence panels and 4x4 that I was thinking of using to make a new garden gate. So instead, I've pinched a load of bricks so I might be able to work on the smoker I've been planning to build in my garden for the best part of a year now.

Oh, donkey, you were doing so well until now ... leave my bigos alone!!!!


Q for 100 points: what is smoker? Like wędzarnia?

Go back and read it again. I said that was a possibilty that never happened.


Yes.

too deep for 1:40 am. g'night.

I was born in the US. My father was born in the eastern US. His mother was born in the Eastern US. Her parents emigrated from Poland. My father's dad did too. My dad is what you would call "Polish American".

- First of all you referred to my family members that fought for your slimy island with disrespect...
Second you haven’t proved a jack s$%##$, again Australian are not English. So let me re-phrase for your little scummy fuzzy pompon ass: No English graves that died in combat on Polish soil during WW2. The first grave you will (miraculously) find I will drive to and plant flowers and light some candles, and unlike your gay ass I stand behind my words.


-Believed fighting against such a force is pointless (Germany)... No lies, no gimmicks just a straight up answer!

You know, the irony is, Britain and France would have been better off fighting at this time instead of waiting. They just gave Germany more time to build up the wehrmacht.

That's why the Blitz starting in 1940 was so intense. Britain would have been better off had they fought a war in Germany on the ground right after Germany invaded Poland. They left themselves wide open for the Blitz. Tsk. Tsk.

I am mildly amused by this thread, which is a perfect example of how the westerners' amazing ignorance and naiveté can be abused by a few malevolent trolls. It doesn't take too much brainpower to figure out what's going on here, but sometimes even that is too much to expect from some people...

Sometimes this forum is a support group for Plastic Poles whinging about how Britain never did enough for them. Anyone who attempts to question the mythology surrounding these bonding sessions is told to stfu and stop intruding on their mourning process. Brits have a right to defend themselves from what they see as false accusations as much as Poles do.

Oh Please! Who's the troll here? I notice a lot of posts aren't exactly in favor of Poland. I would say the real TROLLS are the ones posting THOSE!!!

I happen to have half my roots in Poland DON'T you DARE call me a TROLL!!!

Here here.


I know trolls should be ignored, but sometimes it's more fun to let off some steam and abuse them. Accusations of betrayal are designed to provoke a reaction, as are the anti-Polish retorts.. I have no doubt that the majority of Poles aren't stupid enough to believe what has been espoused by a minority of morons on this thread...

If you insist on being anti Poland I will keep posting my opinion on that!

Okay: Here's a good question. I know this is the past and all we can really do now is learn a thing or two from it. That's why I think this is a good question to ask.

My question is: Why was Germany allowed to create it's wehrmacht in the first place. WWI had just happened, GERMANY had just LOST.
WHY WERE THEY ALLOWED TO CREATE THE WEHRMACHT????!!!!???!!!!
That is a valid question. The Treaty of Versailles was just signed and yet Europe allowed Germany to amass this mighty military force. How did this happen???? Most important of all: WHY did it????

I am saddened and why you say "westerners" like they are alone in this ignorance? So many dirty secrets, cover ups and lies have been told that history of ww2 has versions to fit each Countryand/or dictator.


IMO this would have altered odds dramatically. Poland had set troops in place with the "ally" support in mind.

My posts were a response to the drivel espoused by yourself, Celinski etc. I am not anti-Poland, I have a Polish girlfriend and will be spending Christmas in Poland with her family. Like I said, my posts are a provocative response to morons like you, and do not reflect my opinion on Poles in general. Where as you seem to actually believe what you have posted!

It's funny because most of these accusations of betrayal quite often come from non-Polish speaking 'Poles' living in the USA. Shame on you for painting the people you claim to represent in this way.

I realize I am in the US and this has, without a doubt, influenced my view on this. Please do not resort to calling me a moron just because you happen to be English, have a Polish gf and wish to keep the peace.

Just because I am not actually in Poland doesn't mean I can't have an opinion. From over here it looks like most of Europe has been anti Polish for quite some time.

I think the German military was a stronger force than the British one in 1940.

It was not just Germany vs. British, Poland and France were also to be fighting.

How would British forces get to Poland?

Why would France extend themselves past the Maginot line thus leaving themselves more vulnerable than they already were?

This is why the best chances were right after the invasion of Poland by Germany. Would have been much more difficult managing a war on two fronts.


By going thru Germany. There would have been no avoiding that. It would, however, have saved millions of lives.

lol, another topic where the Poles get to take out their bitterness of the past out on the other members of the forum, this time it just happens to be the British because we didn't 'save' Poland even though it was geographically and militarily impossible. Get over it and live in the present, on the whole Poland is ok, the British and the Poles have a decent relationship so lets leave it at that

Couldn't agree more.

Please stop with bitterness, it just reinforces the negative stereotypes attributed to Poles.

Oh PLEASE!!!!! How many degrading, anti Polish posts have been posted by British members of this forum???? It seems like a free-for-all and relentless bashing. That is what I am responding to. Just who is it, really? Who are the ones taking out their bitterness on other members of this forum?

What about all those negative stereotypes attributed to pompous british who's superiority is rooted in ignorance alone????? Why not stop contributing to those?

Why are you confusing "take out bitterness" with history?


Sorry if the truth about the past is not always pleasent but this should not alter relationships today. If anything it should make them more open and honest.


This is the sad part, as if attacking Polish will continue to keep the past in the closet.

lol, i did say this topic, not the forum, i was refering to this 'individual topic' and not the whole website.

Usually those anti-polish posts are written by people who are just looking for a fight, those who are not regular members, however when the Polish have a crack back its by members who are supposed to be well respected long standing posters of PF.


you can say what you like about the British, to be honest i don't care, i just find it strange how the 'bigger, better more respectable members' are those throwing the dirt back at those who just roll up for a few posts.


its one in the same, the Polish are bitter about the history, what else is there to say.


I'm not shy of hearing about a few million people being executed for being Jewish, i went to history lessons you know, i don't think its right, i hate those that partook in the actions in the past. However the past is the past, how about laying your bitterness aside as its never going to be cleared up. You may aswell live for today and tommorow, rather than yesterday.

You don't hear the British banging on about the bombings of London, Exeter, Coventry etc etc. Granted its death on a smaller scale to that of the Jews but still its about moving forward.

Why do you all p!ss into the wind?

Give it up!

In war as in this thread there can be no winners, only losers!

Its a shame you and Cellinski werent around in 1940 to tell Europe's military and political leaders where they were going wrong. Its something we'll all just have to live with I guess.


Brits question the myths.
People of Polish descent get upset by this audacity and start name calling.
Brits reply by winding up the Plastics.
Plastics respond with accusations of 'polonophobia'.
Brits laugh into their keyboards at the gullibility of the Plastics.

This is generally how it goes.

That's another fallacy. It wasn't just the Jews. It was an entire country. Germany wanted to completely obliterate Poland and Europe did nothing.

Quit trying to divide and conquer!!! The people who died were POLISH!!!!
Anyway, why bring up the past? To learn from it. It's not to cause bitterness and hatred today. It's more about confronting it and discussing it. I am not going to pretend like Britain didn't have any responsibility whatsoever.

so can you please tell me what you have learnt through debating the same thing over and over and over again, at least since i have been a member, how have you moved forward?? Can you take me through it??


yeah the only people who died in the war were 'POLISH' i get it.

Dosen't matter how many Russians died, dosen't matter how many Americans died, neither the Japanese, as long as we account for a few Polaks then sod the rest :)

I was thinking the same thing. ;)


I saw a different group doing the name calling. As for getting upset, this was due to being called names.

Am I the one who starts these threads???? I just respond when posters start bashing Polish.
Keep in mind, there would have been far less casualities if Britain and France would have confronted Germany as soon as they invaded Poland. Why do you think the war took such a tremendous toll on human life???? Because of that initial stall!!!

Britain actually suffered MORE casualities because they waited. It was bad for them, they were going to have to get involved sooner or later anyway.