This quote is about France vs. Britain and had they attacked Germany. What I question is what if all three, France, Britain and Poland did all jointly attack, could the world war be avoided?
My god you are thick.
What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others?
My god you are thick.
must be.
Is this not what happened anyway in Poland? Polish military I speak to were fighting for a free Poland, not Soviet occupied Poland. 1989 is not that long ago.
Poland and the Polish people still exist. I sincerely hope you're just playing dumb.
This quote is about France vs. Britain and had they attacked Germany. What I question is what if all three, France, Britain and Poland did all jointly attack, could the world war be avoided?
You seem to be all over the place with your arguments and this discussion. I think you really need to get your thoughts and ideas in order before you carry on with this.
I think you really need to get your thoughts and ideas in order before you carry on with this.
It was a very straight forward question, the article implys that France could have done this alone.
Had France attacked Germany in a serious way as promised, the results could have been very serious, if not disastrous for the Germans.
What I question is what if all three, France, Britain and Poland did all jointly attack , could the world war be avoided? I was asking not to offend but to hear your view.
Bzibzioh
4 Dec 2008 / #275
The small matter of preparing for a war that we were in no position logistically to fight. We were under armed and under prepared. If we would have fought the Germans in a land war in 1939 we would have been beaten quickly and decisively.
At least you are honest. And you were a superpower at that time. Yet you expected Polish army who had not yet a chance to fully modernize, having been resurrected only 19 years earlier, to successfully defend us and laughing at us that we failed. So British.
You have done nothing in this thread but tell offensive lies.
No, darling, that would be your domain. You are typical product of some leftist university. It's bizarre but true that there is never any recognition by leftists that their own passionately held beliefs have been proven wrong again and again. On the contrary, my experience with academics on the left is disdain for any opinion other than that approved by the leftist fraternity. Open-mindedness is not a characteristic of the left.
This has nothing to do with my family it has everything to do with how the Polish continued to live under communist rule.
I just happen to have this in my mailbox from today.
What stuck in my throat, and indeed the throat of my fellow watcher, was the scene in 1943 in which Winston Churchill flew to North Africa to meet General Anders of the Polish home army, who had fought like a lion for the Allies but who now was worried that if he didn't get his troops back to Europe, the Russians might be in a position to take over Poland after the war and turn it into a communist satellite. "Don't worry", Churchill assured the general, affably. "We came into the war because of Poland. We will not abandon you and Poland will be happy."
and
Happy? Well, not exactly. In fact, Poland settled down to several decades of sometimes brutal, always dreary, Russian misrule, after the British did indeed abandon, ie betray, Poland to Stalin. Or, at any rate, did no more than squeak when the brutal German occupation was replaced by an almost-as-brutal Soviet one.
But the film then interviewed aged survivors of the Warsaw uprising who, having endured these appalling acts of Nazi retribution for the uprising, were - months later - beaten, raped or shot dead by the incoming Russians, who wanted to rid their "new Poland" of any likely dissident elements.
as for this take on Britain,
balkaninsight.com/en/main/blogs/15290/
Yet you expected Polish army who had not yet a chance to fully modernize, having been resurrected only 19 years earlier, to successfully defend us and laughing at us that we failed. So British.
No we didnt expect you to win, we expected you to lose which is what you did. No one was laughing about it and there'd be nothing 'so British' if anyone did. Other than that you're spot on though.
No, darling, that would be your domain. You are typical product of some leftist university. It's bizarre but true that there is never any recognition by leftists that their own passionately held beliefs have been proven wrong again and again. On the contrary, my experience with academics on the left is disdain for any opinion other than that approved by the leftist fraternity. Open-mindedness is not a characteristic of the left.
Changing the subject is a well established diversionary tactic. I feel you've been unsuccessful on this occasion though.
I just happen to have this in my mailbox from today.
A blogger. Wow.
And it shows what a big-hearted nation the Poles are, that they don’t make more of it.
Yeah, thanks for that.
No we didnt expect you to win, we expected you to lose which is what you did
As a human that doesn't bother you?
Bzibzioh
4 Dec 2008 / #279
No we didnt expect you to win, we expected you to lose which is what you did. No one was laughing about it and there'd be nothing 'so British' if anyone did. Other than that you're spot on though.
Check Iron's comment. He said that we were worse than the French.
Changing the subject is a well established diversionary tactic.
Not really. It's obvious in this point that Harry failed to convince anyone on Polish side and we failed to convince him and I was reflecting on why.
Harry
4 Dec 2008 / #280
Polish military I speak to were fighting for a free Poland, not Soviet occupied Poland.
I do wish you would make your mind up about this. Earlier in the thread you were most insistant that those Poles were fighting to save Britain. Now you agree with us and admit that they were fighting for a free Poland.
You are typical product of some leftist university.
Not quite dear lady. The university I went to was owned and run by Catholic nuns. Leftist it was not.
It's bizarre but true that there is never any recognition by leftists that their own passionately held beliefs have been proven wrong again and again. On the contrary, my experience with academics on the left is disdain for any opinion other than that approved by the leftist fraternity. Open-mindedness is not a characteristic of the left.
Well done for writing about beliefs and opinions. Must be a lot easier for you to write about them than about facts. Facts like: Poles were invited to the London victory parade; free Poles were invited to the London victory parade; the RAF did bomb Germany in September 1939. Facts which you have lied about.
Keep giving us the benefit of your wise opinions. I'll keep countering your lies with facts.
It's obvious in this point that Harry failed to convince anyone on Polish side and we failed to convince him and I was reflecting on why.
It's because some Poles (and wannabe Poles) are not interested in facts or in what really happened; they are only interested in pushing their self-serving myths and will attack, lie to and attempt to offend anybody who responds with cold hard facts.
free Poles were invited to the London victory parade;
Originally the British Government invited representatives of the newly recognised regime in Warsaw to march in the 1946 victory parade in London but the delegation from Poland never arrived - the reason was never adequately explained, pressure from Moscow being the most likely. Bowing to press and public pressure, the British eventually invited representatives of the Polish Air Force under British Command to attend in their place. They in-turn refused to attend in protest at similar invitations not being extended to the Polish Army and Navy. The only Polish representative at the parade was Colonel Jozef Kuropieska - the military attaché of the Communist regime in Warsaw. [21]
Harry what is your definition of "Free"?
Now you agree with us and admit that they were fighting for a free Poland.[/quote]
Lets see if France and Britain had responded to Poland when they were attacked, would it have also been France and Britain that would be protecting their own? Why did they both declare war on Nazi's, for Poland or themselves?
Bratwurst Boy 8 | 11918
4 Dec 2008 / #282
Okay....I still need a clarification!
It's May 1945, the german forces surrendered...Americans and Russians did just had a happy party at the Elbe..so what now?
Not WHAT GB should have done but ideas HOW they should have done it please!
You are now the polish commander providing the allied command in the HQ with some viable plan how to free Poland from the coming soviet occupation:
Start here:
(But please don't do a Lukasz on us with throwing some misty phrases into the discussion - that is helping nobody)
1.)....
It's May 1945, the german forces surrendered...Americans and Russians did just had a happy party at the Elbe..so what now?
Not WHAT GB should have done but ideas HOW they should have done it please!
You are now the polish commander providing the allied command in the HQ with some viable plan how to free Poland from the coming soviet occupation:
Start here:
(But please don't do a Lukasz on us with throwing some misty phrases into the discussion - that is helping nobody)
1.)....
As a human that doesn't bother you?
That you lost or that we expected you to lose?
Check Iron's comment. He said that we were worse than the French.
It was hardly a malicious comment. Poland's inability to maintain its borders is an obvious subject for humour, even amongst Poles I bet.
If it isnt then it should be.
Not really. It's obvious in this point that Harry failed to convince anyone on Polish side and we failed to convince him and I was reflecting on why.
Well his arguments were more convincing and largely unanswered with anything credible. I learnt something new from his posts but nothing from the respondents. Then again maybe I'm also a leftist, or a Jew or some such other label that will allow my opinions to be dismissed readily.
Harry
4 Dec 2008 / #284
Harry what is your definition of "Free"?
How about the Polish Air Force under British command. Those were free Poles. They were invited. Your own link tells you that.
Lets see if France and Britain had responded to Poland when they were attacked, would it have also been France and Britain that would be protecting their own? Why did they both declare war on Nazi's, for Poland or themselves?
If they had repsonded? They did respond. You just don't like the response.
Why did Britain declare war on Germany? Well, perhaps we can find a clue in the announcement of Chamberlain about the declaration of war:
This morning the British Ambassador in Berlin handed the German Government a final note stating that, unless we heard from them by 11 o'clock that they were prepared at once to withdraw their troops from Poland, a state of war would exist between us. I have to tell you now that no such undertaking has been received, and that consequently this country is at war with Germany.
Clear enough for you Yank?
Remind me: why did your country, the US of A, declare war against Germany? To protect Poland or to protect itself?
Poland's inability to maintain its borders is an obvious subject for humour, even amongst Poles I bet. If it isnt then it should be.
Do you laugh and joke about Holocaust or just Polish trying to defend borders. I am sure you have viewed the statistics as far as troops & equipment Poland was up against. Sorry but that just cold and not funny at all.
Germany invaded Poland on September 1, 1939, Britain and France declared war on Germany after ultimatums to withdraw expired on September 3. However, some other items of the March 30 guarantee pledge were violated; most notably the failure to respond with an overland invasion from the West.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_betrayal
Those were free Poles.
Free my but. They knew of "Soviet" takeover and were trying to find a way to save Poland.
Bratwurst Boy 8 | 11918
4 Dec 2008 / #286
I am sure you have viewed the statistics as far as troops & equipment Poland was up against.
I doubt the Poles of that time acknowledged this themselves or else their behaviour against Germany might not have been so self assured...
Bzibzioh
4 Dec 2008 / #287
It's because some Poles (and wannabe Poles) are not interested in facts or in what really happened; they are only interested in pushing their self-serving myths and will attack, lie to and attempt to offend anybody who responds with cold hard facts.
So lets see those cold hard facts.
Britain issued an insulting invitation for "London Poles" - last minute, under pressure and exclusively only to some of them. Nobody with self-respect would accept. It would be a dishonor to attend under such circumstances. There is definitely something wrong with your moral compass if you can’t see that.
In your opinion Britain fulfilled their obligation coming from military alliance with Poland by declaring war on Germany and performing 2-3 insignificant air bombings on German's back. If you were to tell me that Britain simply didn’t have planes able to reach even Berlin not to mention further east at that time I would buy that. But you didn't. So I'm still convinced that Britain let us bleed to death while happy that it was us not you.
And stop saying liar in every comment: it's boring and ineffective.
It was hardly a malicious comment. Poland's inability to maintain its borders is an obvious subject for humour, even amongst Poles I bet.
If it isnt then it should be.
If it isnt then it should be.
Yeah, funny that later on you Brits had such hard time defending your borders. And you were further away, on the island, with bigger military power and the enemy was somehow tired by then. THAT is humorous.
Poles of that time acknowledged this themselves
Poland did admit they could not do this without support. Not to Germany but this was spoken openly when meetings took place.
For its part, the Polish military was under no illusion that it could defend against a German assault for more than a few weeks. Although Poland could field one of the largest armies on the European continent, its troops were only lightly armed in comparison to their German counterparts.
worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/reading/history/polandbetrayal.htm
Do you laugh and joke about Holocaust or just Polish trying to defend borders. I am sure you have viewed the statistics as far as troops & equipment Poland was up against. Sorry but that just cold and not funny at all.
Comedy is merely tragedy happening to someone else.
By your logic nothing historic is a suitable subject for humour. Or is it just Polish history that should be exempt?
How do you invade Poland?
You march in backwards and tell them you are leaving.
Do you know how Wikipedia is made and maintained?
Bzibzioh
4 Dec 2008 / #290
How do you invade Poland?
You march in backwards and tell them you are leaving.
You march in backwards and tell them you are leaving.
Brave computer warrior LOL
Do you know how Wikipedia is made and maintained?
yes, I was being lazy today and felt ok
most notably the failure to respond with an overland invasion from the West.
if this is wrong and you sent "overland" to Poland, ???
You march in backwards and tell them you are leaving.
Funny same ones who beat Russia (good chance all of Europe was saved) are now attacked by both "Soviet's" and "Nazi's" , betrayed by the ones that said they would help and we are the joke? I guess if you can make jokes about this then it's open to make fun of "Genocide".
Yeah, funny that later on you Brits had such hard time defending your borders. And you were further away, on the island, with bigger military power and the enemy was somehow tired by then. THAT is humorous.
If the enemy was tired it certainly wasnt from fighting Poland.
It was still hard but we managed it and as a result we were able to enjoy post war freedom and prosperity. It was pretty sweet, shame you missed it.
Brave computer warrior LOL
Just carrying on the fighting traditions of my forefathers, and as your taking a whipping from a foreigner so are you in your own way. :)
VaFunkoolo 6 | 654
4 Dec 2008 / #293
The moral of the story is that if you want your freedom, you have to fight for it.
Like Britian did.
If you let another country walk all over you, like Poland did twice in the last centruy, you really have no one to blame but yourselves.
To try and divert this blame only adds insult to injury of a meaningless national pride.
Like Britian did.
If you let another country walk all over you, like Poland did twice in the last centruy, you really have no one to blame but yourselves.
To try and divert this blame only adds insult to injury of a meaningless national pride.
It was still hard but we managed it and as a result we were able to enjoy post war freedom and prosperity. It was pretty sweet, shame you missed it.
Poland was there and helped you retain your freedom. You see unlike others, Poland kept their word.
Bzibzioh
4 Dec 2008 / #295
Just carrying on the fighting traditions of my forefathers
... like leaving your brothers to die on the front?
The moral of the story is that if you want your freedom, you have to fight for it.
Like Britian did.
Like Britian did.
Some Brits are so clueless is hysterical.
You can be brave all you want if somebody stabs you in the back, boy.
Without USA you would be speaking German today.
Without USA you would be speaking German today.
the USSR... and you too...
... like leaving your brothers to die on the front?
And winning wars. Its a good habit to get into and we can wholeheartedly recommend it.
What you fellas dont seem to understand is the bigger picture. Poland was one brief phase of what promised to be a long arduous process of attrition. Britain understood this. We knew that the longer things went on the better our chances. Charging into Poland in 1939 like the cavalry at Little Big Horn would have ended in glorious failure. Something Poles seem to regard as normal but we however do not.
VaFunkoolo 6 | 654
4 Dec 2008 / #298
Without USA you would be speaking German today.
Thats not actually a problem for me
But as it turns out, youre speaking my language
Funny old world, isnt it
fool
-edit-
Obviously I meant Polish fool
Bzibzioh
4 Dec 2008 / #299
Bzibzioh:
... like leaving your brothers to die on the front?
And winning wars. Its a good habit to get into and we can wholeheartedly recommend it.
... like leaving your brothers to die on the front?
And winning wars. Its a good habit to get into and we can wholeheartedly recommend it.
Britain must be so proud of you, son. It's better that you stop embarrassing yourself and your country. Ask Harry to recommend you some reading material on British history. You are lacking big time.
Bzibzioh:Without USA you would be speaking German today.
Thats not actually a problem for me
Thats not actually a problem for me
So why did you bother fighting Germans for so long and hard?
Are you even sure what are you saying?
But as it turns out, youre speaking my language
I'm still speaking Polish, thank you very much. English is my second language.
Obviously I meant Polish fool
Lacking better arguments already, little boy?
VaFunkoolo 6 | 654
4 Dec 2008 / #300
So why did you bother fighting Germans for so long and hard?
Im much to young to have had anything to do with WII
Do you actually think before you say things?
English is my second language.
Very sensible of you, given that your first is largely useless