A thought on Poland!

First, the soap story is a hoax...ask the Jews themselves.

(Did you know that this Soap-hoax was already used during WWI by british propagandists? In 1925, the British Foreign Secretary Sir Austen Chamberlain admitted that the "corpse factory" story had been a lie!)

"...The claim resurfaced very early during World War II, so early that it almost certainly was not true. However, contemporary jokes, threats, rumors and insults show beyond a doubt that many people thought that it was at least believable. The main support for this belief was found in the abbreviation "RIF" which was imprinted on most pieces of soap available in Germany during WWII. It was interpreted as "Reines Jüdisches Fett" (pure Jewish fat) while, in fact, the abbreviation stood for "Reichsstelle für industrielle Fettversorgung" (National Center for Industrial Fat Provisioning)...."

Second...would it have been more okay if Germans had killed Jews the "old" way like in those many pogroms...with shovels or bullets???

Yes...Germany was a highly industrialized country and it used all it could to kill as many of her percieved enemies as possible and as efficient as possible.

Like the US did with their Atom-Bomb...new technology to reach the goals.
Do you think it made a big difference to the victims if they were gassed or clubbed to death???

I always found this argument especially awkward (and bigot).

Even the creators of the atomic bomb were horrified at the creation they had wrought...they were so caught up in the excitement of the discovery that they hadn't really thought about the application.

re: like in those many pogroms...with shovels or bullets???

- Do you allude to the zionist and neo-nazi horror stories about the alleged 'pogroms' by the Poles? You germans like to repeat this nonsense to divert attention from themselves, right? If you whine that lots of stories about the german alleged atrocities are absurd, then why do you repeat equally absurd tales about the Poles? The usual german self-centeredness, manipulativeness, and lack of higher emotions? Yes, for such reasons as these you can't be a really great nation. You can't compare e.g. with the English.

:)

Nooooo....that was not a shot against Poles...honestly!
But fact is Jews got killed since they wandered into Europe...and the methods were surely not as "modern" as gas chambers but were they less cruel because of that???


Hmmmm......

Puzzler, he's.........speechless! How in hell did you manage that! ;D

I'm just very disappointed! Bye

I'm sorry, Brat. Truly :(

*hugs Brat*

Aww, come back Brat....don't leave like that.

re: But fact is Jews got killed since they wandered into Europe...

- You mean that Jews got killed since they got into Europe? - If yes, well, Jews also weren't innocent lambs and they killed too, as e.g. stalinism (i.e. Russian terror in rougly 1944-53) in Poland shows. Have you heard about the atrocities of Solomon Morel, for example, who ran a concentration camp for Germans (and also Poles) in Silesia? How many thousands of German (and some Polish) civilians did he murder with his own hands? There were scores and scores of those like him.

re: and the methods were surely not as "modern" as gas chambers but were they less cruel because of that???

- I've heard stories about those 'gas chambers' but don't know much about what they were like. How did they look? Is there e.g. any credible photo of them?

Shopgirl, don't worry. If he really clicks with us, he'll be back. If not, then it'd be sad, but well, it's life. I think that if he's really such a splendid 'Teutonic' warrior, then he should come and keep on fighting, until peace is reached.

All the best , Butty.
;)

YOU??? Why are YOU sorry???
I was not disappointed with you girl! :)


I was just disappointed with you Puzzler...whereas I try to refrain from broadest generalizations about Poland and Poles you do use them about Germany whenever it suits you...I thought we were over that....:(


'm sorry Puzzler...there are things which are just not open to discussion in Germany...:(

If Germans would have developed atom bomb it would have been used surely more than twice as it was with US. US never tried to exterminate/enslave whole nations or peoples. And no, dont start with the USA & Native Americans, there was never a systematic plan to kill them all.


The gassing exemplies the systematicness and industrialization of the killing. It is carefully planned with all the blueprints etc. It is different than going into village with machete's in rage like it was with Ruanda.

It's not true...the Reservations for Native Americans may be considered as prototype of the concentration camps in Europe.

Oh, here's some pertinent news regarding the medieval oppression in some European countries.

PRISON FOR COMPARING ABORTION TO HOLOCAUST

Dr Johannes Lerle, Lutheran priest, was given a one year sentence for 'Holocaust denial.' He compared abortion to the Holocaust of the Jews. 'One hundred and fifty thousand abortions every year in Germany are the same as the murder of innocent Jews in Auschwitz,' he said.

(after Polish website ekumenizm.pl)

May God protect Herr Lerle!

WTF ??? How this can be seen as Holocaust Denial ? Comparing abortion and Holocaust may be bad taste but that is a whole another matter.

Isaac B. Singer said once "When it comes to treating animals, all people are nazis."
Is that statement Holocaust denial also...

Shocking... K twins should give him political asylum.

It would have been more okay if Germans had not killed Jews at all.

Unfortunately It seems you missed the whole point of my post and the point was, that the reason standing behind the specialness of WWII is the fall of thought that together with the development of our civilization we will escape our beastly nature. That we will learn something from the history of mind kind and finally evolve... Unfortunately what this civilization development brought us was just more efficient inventions and ways to exterminate our fellow human beings. I'm not trying to say that the holocaust was the most despicable act of human bestiality, but if someone would make a list containing such acts I'm sure it would be somewhere up there on the top.


Do you mean if there is a big difference between a painful death and a long and painful death? I guess that both end the same, but I can imagine people going for the first option. Personally I would choose to be killed by an angry mob than to go to a concentration camp.

No they are not concentration camps.

The intent of reservations was to keep tribes together and offer compensation for lands that had been settled by whites. While I definitely do not think Native Amercians were treated with dignity, fairness or respect....the emphasis was more on "converting" them to whilte culture (religion, language, lifestyles) than extermination.

In clashes between very agressive tribes and the US govt, yes, there is a very sad and bloody history. But not all tribes were the same. Some tribal governments were more adaptive and friendly to early settlers, others regarded whites with stiff opposition and resisted them fiercely.

Constantine....I think you have seen too many "Western" movies from Hollywoood! :)

re: more okay if Germans had not killed Jews at all.

- I just wonder Matyjasz why are you so concerned about Jews, and not e.g. about Poles? Do jews care about the killed Poles, or for that matter about anybody else but jews?

Is it an obsession with some people this whining about Jews?

You'd better be concerned about Poles killed by jews e.g. during stalinism.

Or about the outrageous property claims levelled at Poland by the 'Holocaust Industry' today.

Or about Palestinians, including children, killed today by jews almost everyday.

Puzz, I went to Oswiecim (Auschwitz), when I was in 6th grade (long time ago) :)
I still remember the horror of this place. Not to mention, the stories from people who were actually there and survived (including my uncle). The camp was built to kill people, and it is just one of many.

Because my real name is Matiyah Finkelstein... :) nah, because I was answering BB post:



Everyday you learn something new. Thanks.

That was hysterical! :)