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A thought on Poland!


Bratwurst Boy  8 | 11820  
24 Jun 2007 /  #31
Quoting Ogorek from another thread: "There is no reason why Russia and Poland should not get along. However - for them to do so - they have to forgive and forget the bad history. Too much hidden hatred still exists e.g. Katyn - the war in 1920 etc. They should all sit around a table - get drunk - and it'll all come out in a flood of tears...
then it will be ok..."

This drinking at the table.....is it for Russia only, or can others come to the party?

Interesting....

*remembers fondly the party yesterday in puzzlers home*
shopgirl  6 | 928  
24 Jun 2007 /  #32
how long does the grandson of the smaller guy still want to pout ?

OK, here is a question for you: which generation are you, in your family, that you still feel you are being blamed for something that happened a long time before you were born?

Other side of same coin...

*remembers fondly the party yesterday in puzzlers home*

I cannot believe we didn't play "Dancing Queen"! Clearly we weren't thinking! :)
Bratwurst Boy  8 | 11820  
24 Jun 2007 /  #33
OK, here is a question for you: which generation are you, in your family, that you still feel you are being blamed for something that happened a long time before you were born?

Other side of same coin...

Hmmm...being blamed....I don't know if that is the right wording....

You know I'm the third generation...it was my grandpa and his brothers who fighted in the Wehrmacht and it was my Grandma and her family who got expelled from the eastern Territories...in that case a "typical" german past (I told you before, didn't I?)

I always decided for myself to take the whole cake that is Germany as my heritage...the Good AND the BAD...not only Goethe and Schiller but also Hitler too...but since I was born so much later I don't feel actually personally attacked or blamed for what happened.

The problem is that using the old style propaganda with calling today politicians as Nazis and...and...and...is just wrong and it is used/misused/abused to gain some advantage.

As if at the mere mention of something from the third Reich every German will be shocked and feel guilty and of course cave in to every demand...even now more than 60 years later.

And that has nothing to do with war guilt or hurt feelings or reconciliation but everything with plain cold blooded calculating manipulation!
That has nothing to do with being upstanding, fight for the rights, honesty and all that blah...sorry!
shopgirl  6 | 928  
24 Jun 2007 /  #34
I don't feel actually personally attacked or blamed for what happened.

Ok, well that's good to hear....it can be very damaging to carry all of that

old style propagand with calling today politicians as Nazis and...and...and...is just wrong and it is used/misused/abused to gain some advantage

I don't know if I want to get into what's wrong or right or misused/abused, but I think the old feelings mostly GET IN THE WAY of future progress. At the same time I want to be sensitive to feelings that people have, because that is their reality.

This is not a clear cut issue is it? It is one that, as Patti said, has to heal in time, on its own. And it will. New generations are born everyday.....time marches on.
ogorek  - | 165  
24 Jun 2007 /  #35
Erm...just a little question...it's neither the original big guy nor the original smaller guy but rather their grandsons....how long does the grandson of the smaller guy still want to pout ?

...the grandson walks down the street with his grandad who limps - crippled by
his previous trauma. But - with a smile he tries to make the best of what
dignity he has left. The grandson of the bigger guy walks past. The smaller
grandson makes an effort to aknowledge the bigger - who in return calls them
both dirty car thieves.
Patrycja19  61 | 2679  
24 Jun 2007 /  #36
has to heal in time,

yeah like the bumps those cave guys got for pulling our hair lol.... men!!
shopgirl  6 | 928  
24 Jun 2007 /  #37
who in return calls them
both dirty car thieves.

You are referring here to "stolen lands"? or what?

(You really like allegory don't you! :)
ogorek  - | 165  
24 Jun 2007 /  #38
You are referring here to "stolen lands"? or what?

Maybe you could explain Bratwurst?
Bratwurst Boy  8 | 11820  
24 Jun 2007 /  #39
...the grandson walks down the street with his grandad who limps - crippled by
his previous trauma. But - with a smile he tries to make the best of what
dignity he has left. The grandson of the bigger guy walks past. The smaller
grandson makes an effort to aknowledge the bigger - who in return calls them
both dirty car thieves.

Sorry picture...really...:(

But do you have an idea what Austrians and Germans call each other...scratch that...what Bavarians and Prussians (as in Berliners) call each other???

:)

yeah like the bumps those cave guys got for pulling our hair lol.... men!!

The ol time were the best! So uncomplicated! :)

Maybe you could explain Bratwurst?

What explain? Car thieves?

No...that is really meaned as in car thieves...
ogorek  - | 165  
24 Jun 2007 /  #40
But do you have an idea what Austrians and Germans call each othe

....yeah but they don't really mean it.
Patrycja19  61 | 2679  
24 Jun 2007 /  #41
The bigger guy thinks lesser of the crippled and his grandson. basically what hes
saying is, that the germans think lesser of the Polish.. they are superior. so even
though the grandson tried to acknowledge this bigger man, he still thought less of
both and was biased in his telling them they both were dirty car theives ?

just a guess, but its kinda what I am getting out of it..
shopgirl  6 | 928  
24 Jun 2007 /  #42
it CAN NEVER BE a great power in the traditional way

Times are different. Things are more complicated than before. Everything has to change: politics, people, trade, communications, travel. Change is inevitable.
What is important is to find meaning and value in life as it goes rushing by!
Patrycja19  61 | 2679  
24 Jun 2007 /  #43
What is important is to find meaning and value in life as it goes rushing by!

yes, has nothing to do with whos better, has to do with what you make of it and
the quality of your life.. Share, respect, love .. * Puts on her flower child hat*

love one another :) owwwwwwwwwuuuuuuugahhhhhhhhhh..
shopgirl  6 | 928  
24 Jun 2007 /  #44
love one another :)

:) :) :) :) :) :) (lots of smilies)
Bratwurst Boy  8 | 11820  
24 Jun 2007 /  #45
Girls!

:)

You think the Poles don't like Germans because they think Germans feel superior to them?

What would you advise then?

*looks hopefully to flower hat*
Patrycja19  61 | 2679  
24 Jun 2007 /  #46
(lots of smilies)

:)))) we have to overcome it.. * grabs a pepsi and hands one to shopgirl *

no drinking tonight for me though.. work tomorrow :)))) LOL
shopgirl  6 | 928  
24 Jun 2007 /  #47
Behave as if there were no negative attitudes, even if they exist.
Meaning...acknowledging and participating in a power struggle of any kind adds your energy, focus, time (whatever) to the problem....making it bigger and stronger.

Did you ever see the sci fi movie "the 5th element"?
Bratwurst Boy  8 | 11820  
24 Jun 2007 /  #48
*sips hot coffee*

I'm onto work in few hours too...
shopgirl  6 | 928  
24 Jun 2007 /  #49
* grabs a pepsi and hands one to shopgirl *

thanks sweetie :)

or we could sing the old "have coke and a smile song" from the old commericals :D
Bratwurst Boy  8 | 11820  
24 Jun 2007 /  #50
Behave as if there were no negative attitudes, even if they exist.
Meaning...acknowledging and participating in a power struggle of any kind adds your energy, focus, time (whatever) to the problem....making it bigger and stronger

Ach shopgirl...You are da best! :)
shopgirl  6 | 928  
24 Jun 2007 /  #51
Did you ever see the sci fi movie "the 5th element"?

Ok, well Crow was going on about it one day so I watched...

There is this big ball of "evil" heading toward earth and the military try to intercept it.
They decide to fire on it with some heavy duty attack weapons. This little priest tells them not to do it, because they can't destroy it, and it will make it more powerful if they attack it.

Does the military listen? Of course not! They fire at it with everything they have and it just swells up and gets humongous. Now they have an ever "bigger" problem.

And that my friend, is how a little sci fi movie can produce an element of truth :)
Bratwurst Boy  8 | 11820  
24 Jun 2007 /  #52
Did you ever see the sci fi movie "the 5th element"?

Apropos there is right now a rerun of Die hard with Bruce Willis....he is of german heritage too....I think I resemble him a bit....*grin*

And that my friend, is how a little sci fi movie can produce an element of truth :)

I loved this movie...but than I like Milla Jovovitch too! :)

But my fav scene was with the alien opera singer...
Patrycja19  61 | 2679  
24 Jun 2007 /  #53
we could sing the old "have coke and a smile song" from the old commericals

lol.. I like to buy the world a coke :)) and keep it company :))) I know it I do I do..
shopgirl  6 | 928  
24 Jun 2007 /  #54
I'm onto work in few hours too...

Weird work hours huh? What time is it? Are the birdies chirping yet? :)

I loved this movie...but than I like Milla Jovovitch too! :)

Yeah, you and Vrana both! You guys are scary :)
OP Tran Anh  2 | 72  
24 Jun 2007 /  #55
I find that Ogorek totally misunderstand me:

...so you also think that the meek shall inherit the earth? Bollocks.
They will get nothing in todays world.
Human nature showns that the strong will survive - and the weak will suffer

You are absolutely right about the powerlessness of the meek, but from my point of view, as every human being is potentially equal (some may be strong mentally while others have advantage in physicality, even the most outwardly incapable have some amazing abilities that need to be nurtured). So that is the duty of universal education is to guide every human how to reach their fullest potential and to master their destiny, 'to be an Equal among the Equals, to be free among the Free'. (Even in the hopeless case, which should be very rare if the education system is advanced enough, compassion and empathy can be deeply instilled into all other members of the world society so that they would help instead of bullying and ostracizing the unfortunate few).

If you see human society just like nature, that is lions always eat sheeps, then you will basically turn yourself into a beast, no more, no less.

Standing up for yourself - and your country is not nationalistic. Just a necessity.
Don't be so naive.

The ideas I have expressed through the post is my own ideas, it has nothing to do with the standpoint of my country or my other countrymen.

The Kaczynskis are not perfect - but their actions are defensive. They comment when provoked and are not afraid to say it how it is - even if it offends. They will not take any s**t from anyone. They are looking for respect.

Respect is gained through honour, courage and integrity.

I of course wish they could be better, and anyway just to be quick with the mess, I requote myself:

The end is just, and I can see beside nationalists, significant portions of idealist Poles supported the Kaczynskis' fight. With recent EU talk about capping the population count at 60 millions, the Kaczynskis had unwittingly contributed greatly for the cause of Equality in European Union.

They have done rather well, but remember the word "unwittingly". To care greatly for Poland is excellent, but I really doubt they really care for EU, a great project, no matter how currently flawed it is right now. That stands in stark constrast with truly great Poles in history like Adam Mickiewicz and Jan Pawel 2, who possessed both Polish distinct virtues and the universal humanist outlook.

So brace for another lonely fight again, Polska.

...if you want to get something done - you've got to do it yourself.

That is actually a statement of sympathy, not derision.

To conclude, I can easily see that you are a Polish ultra-nationalist, and that you represent the worst aspect of a nation I greatly admire. Simple as that.

And I also suddenly understand why some Poles could possibly hate some other Poles so much.
shopgirl  6 | 928  
24 Jun 2007 /  #56
You are da best! :)

You're not bad either Brat :)
Bratwurst Boy  8 | 11820  
24 Jun 2007 /  #57
Weird work hours huh? What time is it? Are the birdies chirping yet? :)

Oh yes...sometimes they are discussing so loudly...erm I mean chirping... they wake me up (especially interesting on weekends)...not to mention when they are fighting with each other or some stranger is coming and they warn each other...boah! :)

But when they are gone and the winter nears I miss them...it's too quiet...
shopgirl  6 | 928  
24 Jun 2007 /  #58
Brat, you mean when Bruce Willis has to pull the stones out of her when she dies? Ewww!
But of course I appreciated the stones' representation of earth, water, wind and fire and the astrological significance therein :)
Patrycja19  61 | 2679  
24 Jun 2007 /  #59
as every human being is potentially equal

ahhhhhhhh this was what I was looking for.. we are Equal.. our blood is the same
color.

Nationality is unimportant. its the human inside.

although I dont agree with some cultures. I can only say I respect those I find humans
and to not hurt others just because you can..
shopgirl  6 | 928  
24 Jun 2007 /  #60
sometimes they are discussing so loudly

Yes I have Ravens out back and when they fight over some nibble of food....might as well be a soccer match going on outside :) Very, very noisy!

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