JEW YOUTH SHOULD CLEAN UP THEIR ACT IN POLAND

Hm, not even when those Ukrainians were killing them merrily? What is strange about your reasoning, is that you blame 1/3 of the Communist for everything the Commies did. I bet if it were Ukrainians who were 1/3 instead of Jews, it would be "those pore subjugated Ukrainians, they couldn't help but join the Commies." But alas, it's the Jews and 1/3 Jewish participation in the CP is enough to condemn them. Maybe you say you love the Jews, I can't shake the feeling that what the Jews did will always be just one step worse than what the Russians did or the Ukrainians. Jew created Bolshevism...1 of the 3 was a Jew, don't make me laugh. Poles know this. So they let themselves merrily be killed by Ukrainians as "those poor fellows can't help it, they just have to kill us". But the Jews on the other hand...They did it because they are evil and mean. Has it ever ocurred to you that the Jews may be forced to do this as well? Have you ever thought that it was all an evil scheme of Stalin to put two groups up against each other? Perhaps it was an evil plan of Stalin to put Jews deliberately in highly visible positions within the CP? Ever thought of that? I know about the Holodoro, Holodrome or whatever the STALIN-created famine in the Ukraine is called. It was Stalin's plan as well to make the Jews highly visible in this, even though their role was not as big as assumed. His plan was simply: dividae et conquerae and it worked. Poles and Jews hate each other thanks to the Russians and they both suffered tremendously during WW2.

Indeed, they should get at the table and work out their differences and then both turn to Russia, the big perpetrator. The big Slavic brother who has nothing but good in mind for it's slavic brothers. Ridiculous.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

On Poles, yes, links are in this thread, viable academic links too, take a look.


Yeah yeah, as long as your racist kids dont come to Poland and assault our citizens and destroy our property (like they do each year, see links) you can give or not give a crap.

Apparently though you cant raise your children not to be horrible racist twats, thats OK too but why bring them to Poland? We dont want Israeli racists here, if you cant act like human beings just stay in Israel.

Btw your response is exactly the same as when Poles complained to Israels ambassador about the racist anti-Polish behaviour of Jewish trips, he trew a little tantrum just like you about how Poles are sick and anti-semit so suck my nationalistic keyboard captain Superior Race.

Btw did your kid smear anti-Polish epithets on the walls with her own feces like so many of your kids do when they come here? Or was she on one of the rare civilised groups?

You've gotta be carefull, 19 of Kraków hotels dont admit Jews anymore because of the property losses a visit from the "Chosen" leaves us with.

Ah, Lazar Kaganovitch, indeed; Stalin referred to him as "my Himmler". He was also given the designation; "The Butcher of Ukraine". In the early 1950's, he was one of the top 6 leaders of the Soviet Union and almost carried out a successful coup but was checked by Khrushchev and Molotov who demoted him. He was allowed to retire and lived to a ripe old age.

It is not "strange reasoning". It is pure reason and rational thought. The Ukrainian does not hold hatred against the Pole, neither the Pole against the Ukrainian. Both are very agricultural nations,...and the people both very moral and God-fearing. (but no one is perfect, now are they?) Now, as to the Russian,...I know many Poles who still hold anger against Russians in general. This I do not blame them for.

Enter Bolshevism,...utterly raped, pillaged, plundered beautiful Russia,...then with blood on its fangs and lust in its eyes, turned on Russia's little neighbor, Ukraine. When this beast was done glutting itself upon the blood of Ukraine, the remaining people lived in such fear that the only hope for survival was subjugation. Did Ukrainians kill Poles? Yes. But not for nationalistic reason. Not for any "idealistic" reasons. Simply because they were in every way raped by Bolshevik Communism, and under its rule.

There were plenty of Jews who actually HELPED to gas to death their friends and neighbors. This was widespread in all the death-camps. Does this mean that Jews hate Jews? No. It is people, beaten down by horror and death all around.

That is not at all to excuse the Ukrainians who helped to kill anyone wrongly, Jew (there were many Ukrainians working in the death camps), Pole, or any.

And that is not the point. The point is that Bolshevism, Communism,...are JEWISH ideas, created by JEWS, loved by JEWS, and carried out largely....by JEWS! The proof in undeniable, fact-based, irrefutable.

So there you have it. The largest killer of human life in the 20th century; is Jewish Bolshevism.

Regardless of it being this same JewWatch (dumb name for a site) site, here are some more facts:

jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-USSR-Jewish-Bolshevism-Bolsheviks .html

And don't give me this "oh no, I won't read it, because blah blah" cop-out. Its just the facts. You're just afraid to face the music.

I kind of don't blame Jews for hiding this kind of stuff. It tends to cultivate anti-Jewish sentiment.

Gunslinger44

I never denied there were Jewish Kapos. Just like there were Polish Kapos, Ukrainian, etc. You must not forget that these Kapos were mainly criminals, opportunists or simply luckseekers who thought by being a Kapo, they could save their skin. Also, you must not forget that Kapos often were killed just as well if there were too many prisoners. I did have a glimpse at jewwatch. Just because I think it's a questionable source, doesn't mean that i don't read it. But what amazes me is that guys like you never seem to read other sources, sources that say something different. It's like seeking your own truth and being closed to other truths. I read a part of the book 1jola suggested and I must say it's pretty objective indeed. Maybe you should read it too and you will see that the truth is much more nuanced than you claim it to be.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

Actually you have been given sources that said something different, they said that the Jews were murdering Poles in 1939/40 all across Eastern Poland, your reaction was to ridicule them and then ignore them.

Yehudis reaction was to throw a little tantrum, accuse me of being sick and run away crying.

Both of you failed to adress the historical fact of Jewish betreyal of Poland and Jewish atrocities on Poles.

And here about Jews torturing and murdering Poles after WW2 (Jews in Russian service targetting Poles on ethnic basis).

I'm going to translate the better fragments when i get back.

A quick point here. There are people who only peruse anti-Jewish material and, of course the more they do they only see Jewish fault in everything. They dismiss any other sources as unreliable, because they don't confirm their already preconceived view. They are only looking for material to support the said view. On the other hand, some Jews will only accept the Jewish-friendly view, meaning the Jews were only victims, period. Sterotypes form and so on.

If both sides were to look a little deeper, they would see it is much more complex. There were mothe*****rs on both sides. Plenty of them. The problem I see is that Jewish people are so much more vocal and wash over the Jewish crimes while emphasizing the Polish crimes. I don't see many works or articles in English about Jews working for Gestapo or being Stalinist judges or prosecutors. I have no problem finding constant wave of how Poles murdered Jews and didn't do anything to save Jews or were szmalcowniki (Poles who turn in Jews for money). Say szmalcownik and you think Pole. That's what I thought also till I read Jewish diaries from the ghetto. Leaving out the obvious worst enemy of Poles and Jews, next in line the Jew feared a fellow Jew the most and a Pole a fellow Pole. After the war, a Pole was likely to have a Jewish prosecutor or judge, but a Pole would be the one ripping his fingernails off. A Jew was killed sometimes out of hate but more often because he joined the enemy - the communists.

To bring this back to the original topic, it would be very beneficial for both sides to actually read books that describe the context in which those events took place and not just comfortable excerpts. Holocaust websites are notorious for this and it is deceiving in many cases. So, the Jewish youth who come to Poland are at best poorly educated in the events that took place here and even indoctrinated in a one side view.

There are plenty of Jewish people who know the real history yet they are silent. They allow the few vocal ones to promote ill feeling among us and stir up Judeophobia.


Again, not so simple. In "Polacy i Zydzi w Zaborze Sowieckim" (Poles and Jews under Soviet Occupation) by Marek Wierzbicki you will read how Polish POW's lead through the streets were pellted and jeered by Jews and given food and water by...Jews on the next street. It is a good and interesting historical work and I don't know if it avalilable in English.

1jola

I have read a part of the passage you have given me (I am for some reason pretty busy today and yesterday, but I already stated that I valued it. I will check if it's available in (online) bookstores as I prefer to read from paper than from the screen. I may be old fashioned for somebody who works for MS, but heck :) When I was at University I only studied from paper, if you catch my drift. But, it's payday for me today, so I am going to order some new books anyway. Rising 1944 by Norman Davies is one of them, Martin Gilbert's masterpiece on WW1 (title: First World War) and Modris Ecksteins' Rites of Spring: the Great War and the birth of Modern Age are on the list for sure. I've had them, but they are getting a bit worn out, so time to replace them. Also, I still want to own a copy of Claude Lanzmann's Shoah (highly recommended, I think this is about the best documentary about the Holocaust if there ever has been one). So, it will be busy on the book-buying front for me :)

>^..^<

M-G (busy busy busy - and that for a Friday)

Jola i agree with everything you wrote but it is important to keep people like Jehudi or Maregea from spreading such slander by providing ubiased academic sources that prove the extent of Jewish anti-Polonism during WW2 and the extent of their crimes on our civilian population.

Jewish crimes on the Polish nation are a historical fact.

Hm, I came across "My Brothers Keeper? - Recent Polish debates on the Holocaust", Anthony Polonsky et al (edt). Just have a look at what the back cover states, according to Amazon:


I'm thinking of buying that one too.

>^..^<

M-G (lunch time)

Sokrates

I don't see those two guys as vehicles for spreading lies at all. I also don't want to lump all Jews in the same basket as Polak killers, just like we get angry when Jews make us out to be Hitler's little helpers. The most I can do is suggest people to read books that helped me understand that period of history better. It takes time to really understand anything, and certainly never fully.

Then the choice is theirs. When you read Calel Perechodnik's "Am I a murderer?, I as a Pole can concentrate on how much of a bastard he was for bringing his wife and child to be sent to Treblinka or I can notice his biterness at Poles' behaviour, and he loved Polish culture at that. Conversly, a Jew reading it can dwell on the Polish bastards described or can pause and think of the Jews who sent their own to death. Another book worth reading:

Just one remark to that: the Jedwabna pogrom was a Polish crime, that's also a historical fact. There were excessess on both sides and crimes committed against each other. Poles and Jews both were victims and both perpetrated hideous crimes. Jola is right when he says that Jews and Poles should stop blaming each other and instead (like you suggested) go sit at the table, come clear with each other and then focus on the ppl who were really responsible for this: Hitler and Stalin.

>^..^<

M-G (still lunch time)

Because not all Jews were Polish killers but the phenomenon of Jews killing Poles was much much larger then any perceived or real atrocities Poles would carry out later in retribution.


Did you see Yehudis hysterical reaction at the very mention that his people might be up there with German einsatzgruppen or Russian NVKD? Do you really believe someone like Yehudi or Maregea will accept anything that might imply Jewish people are guilty of such atrocities?

These people came here with a pre-existing point of view thats not dependent on real history or truth, they're going to avoid (just like Maregea and Yehudi do) any historical sources that might shake their little world in which we're victims of Jews rather then ugly Jew killers.

I sincerely believe that we should come to the table with Israel but currently Israel is racist, Israeli people and Israeli goverment are racist and proven that through their policies, right now is not a time to talk with them because they're not ready, all we can do is protect our citizens and counter Israeli slander campaign the best we can.


Obviously, have you seen me deny it? However it was never put into context of Jewish crimes in the region directly prior to that and it needs to.

no, and no !

It was your choice of words that he reacted to. Different scale of crimes. I also would not equate Jewish crimes against Poles to what Einsatzgruppen were doing. I've read their operational reports, and I'm sure you have too, so I can understand. Apropos Einsatzgruppen. Not many people are aware of the Einsatzgruppen that were operating in Poland in 1939 murdering primarily Poles not Jews.



I think they might if they are aware of them. We Poles don't write many books about it in English; were busy defending ourselves against smears and lies. But then again, we don't want anything from them, so we don't need to demonize them. We are not requesting apologies, admitions of guilt, money, tears; we're not creating anti-Semitism.

Being left alone would be quite enough for me but apparently they just cant let go, its as if Israeli and American Jews have a love/hate feeling towards Poland, they hate us, they obssesively claim us to be anti-semites but sometimes i tend to think without Poland they'd be rather lonely :)


Why not? There were purely Jewish and Jewish commanded NKVD units busily wiping out Poles, they made Poles dig mass graves, shot them and then buried them in exactly the same way as Einstatzgruppen.

The motivations of these Jews were racial, they killed Poles for being Polish, just like Einsatzgruppen killing Jews.

There's some cruel irony in that so many of the Jews who participated in executions of Poles in 1939/40 would themselves be standing in place of their former victims at the edges of mass graves in 1941.

So what's so different about Poles in that book from any other nation around the same time?
How many Jews did the US or Canada accept when they needed a new home? While education in Poland was virtually dominated by Jews, when did American universities abolish

quotas and ceased imposing roadblocks for Jewish students? Was it mid 1960's?

religiononourcampuses.wordpress.com/2009/03/08/religious-discrimination-against-jewish-faculty-in-american-higher-education

The "holier than though" as usual. huh?

Nothing. But I never stated it was any different. The US in the 30's (or more precisely, the part of the 30's when Hitler was in power) had a record of unfilled immigration spots of 400.000 in total. 400.000 places that easily could have been taken by Jewish refugees, but they were refused. It's pssbl to think of each unfilled place as a sentence of death for a European Jew.


It was just meant as a point to consider as sometimes Poles see themselves indeed as holier than holy, while in fact they're just humans and not very different from the rest in Europe and the world.


What's so bad about that? I am sure there are many non-Jewish ppl in PL who benefitted from that. A grim comparison: the population in the death camps was also dominated by Jews.

>^..^<

M-G (needs to get a new vacuum cleaner - saw one for only 39 Euros @ Argos and thinks it's a deal)

Perhaps that, along with many other aspects shows how in general Jews were well treated in Poland. No other country allowed Jews that much status and freedom.

Of course the totality of the Jewish experience in Polish lands is also generally positive. That's why so many Jews chose Poland and that's why Poland accepted them.

Polish education was filled with historical lies.


Jews were a widely insular bunch, there's very little they as a people contributed.


Did you see anyone here denying any Polish crimes? No. Did i see you and Yehudi ridiculing proven instances of Jewish crimes against Poles? Yes.

Define contributed, Sokrates. They were poor merchants in Poland before the outbreak of WWII but it's all about opportunity. Look how they developed in terms of Nobel Prize winners and entrepreneurs after that.

Anyway, why do I never hear about stories of Jewish youth here? I'm not ignorant :)

Just read back on the thread. Poles did nothing wrong, were goodness in person and yet got abused, misused and vandalized by Jews. Nobody here denied that Poles were victims too, yet it seems more of a "we were worse off than you" kinda discussion. But if you call some madhatter's site called "jewwatch" a credible source, then, yes, this invites to be ridiculed. From the intonation the website starts off with, after a few sentences it's clear where it's gonna go and what the conclusion will be. I prefer the link to the book Jola gave as it's much more balanced and points out (correctly) that there were excesses on both sides, but that the majority of both ppls were good-intentioned and were not after each other until Hitler and Stalin came on the stage.


I think the number of Jewish inventions will successfully stand through a comparison with Polish inventions :) For example: who invented the jeans you're wearing? Correct, Levi Strauss, and guess what, he was a....Jew :)

Poles, like the Jews, suffer to a great extent of the so-called "victim-complex". Everybody is against them, it's always somebody else's fault, et cetera. I think it's a national trait which unfortunately will not be cured any time soon.


They were artists too, Seanus. Szpilmann, for example? Jews have always contributed to the societies they were a part of. They fought in the armies as good patriots, they helped finding cures for ailments and so on. Only difference was that they viewed the Saturday as their holy day, instead of Sunday, like the Christians or Friday, as the Muslims do. And it's not that they came flocking in in the decades immediately before WW2, but many of them came in the 14th century by invitation of Kasimier the Great of Poland. They were proscecuted in Germany as they were thought to have brought the bubonic plague upon the Christians (ha bloody ha). Kasimier knew what a great contribution they would mean to Polish society as there seemed to be a lack of initiative in PL at the time, so he invited them over. But I am sure in the eyes of some participants in this thread, this will be a historical lie.

<sarcastic mode>
Funny how facts which portray Jews as good ppl are considered lies and facts which portray them as bad or Poles as more than noble towards them are considered the truth, without exception, by some of the participants in this thread.

</sarcastic mode>

Edit: ps, I never doubted that anti-semitism wasn't a Polish invention. It's a Russian invention mainly. Proof of this may lie in the fact that atrocities towards Jews mainly happened when PL was for some reason part of Russia.

Edit2: 3 Million Poles got slaughtered durin WW2; 6 million Jews. Are absolute figures a definitive measurement of the agony a ppl go through?

>^..^<

M-G (is happy with his new and cheap vacuum cleaner)

Artists were rich then, M-G? Hardly! Yes, they contributed for sure but it's:

1) A question of the extent to which they contributed and

2) How those contributions are valued within the given society

Having talked with senior Poles, I can say that what emerged clearly was that Jews were viewed with mistrust. Not without foundation in their eyes.

Seanus (refers M-G to the abortion thread)

Seanus

It all depended to which extend they were allowed to participate. Indeed, they were viewed with mistrust, hence their chances of being able to contribute were limited. That wasn't everywhere the case though. There were Jewish professors, doctors, merchants, et cetera. Some of them were poor, some of them were not.

Ok, I do agree that the invention of the Atombomb is not something to be proud of or something that will be valued very highly in society :) But Oppenheimer went and became a Buddhist after he saw the consequences of his invention.

I have to get some food for tonight and tomorrow now, Seanus, but I will have a look at the abortion thread later on and should it be necessary, I will strike there with my pro-Jewish verbal violence :D

>^..^<

M-G (hates having to shop in two parts => box for the vacuum cleaner was too big to carry around in the supermarket when you only have two hands)

OK, sure thing. That last post is how I write :) :( ;)

The Jews did what they could and we can't blame them for that

Rephrase this, Poles did absolutely nothing to deserve this kind of racism from Jews. The only one denying anything was you and Yehudi, despite rock hard proof that many Jews are racist towards Poles and that this policy of racism often takes place in Jewish crimes against Poles.

Many of the most vocal accusers of Poland were Jews who fled Poland because here they would eventually face criminal charges for killing Poles.

No i dont deny that there were Poles who did bad things, what i deny is that its Polish nation or even a majority, what i'm also saying is that Poles had some very tangible reasons to kill Jews (revenge for murder of the Polish people by Jews in the first place) which doesnt justify it but puts the entire situation in different perspective, suddenly Poles are not ugly anti-semites but victimes taking revenge on the opressors and traitors.


Again you're lying, not the first one in this thread, it stands to reason that a guy who denies crimes on Poles so blatantly would be a liar.

I have never posted a site like that, look back on the pages, all of my sources are reliable press articles from mainstream titles and academic works that you cannot link to any extremist group.

I knew you would lie, deny and try to ridicule the responsibility of Jews for the Polish ordeal so i specifically chose sources that you could in no way undermine or ridicule so please stop lying.

I think you have a little issue there. Where exactly do I state that it was you who posted quotes for jewwatch? I have seen it used as source many times before on this forum, so does that automatically mean that I say that YOU are posting them? Are you the only other poster here? Stop whining about my so-called "lying" and stop calling every attempt to state that the overwhelming majority of Jews were good ppl and did nothing harmful to Poles.


And you say that I am lying? Think again.


Don't make me laugh, you've proven nothing as such - just opinions. Eyewitnesses, they provide proof or are you saying that those are lying too?


Again, who is the one lying here? But this is where your point of view boils down to. Poles did nothing wrong and Jews got everything they deserved. If I am supposed to be an anti-Polish racist or something, you are an even worse one as you are on top of that bagatallising what Poles did. And that is worse. Look at Céline.

>^..^<

M-G (is enjoying some premature fireworks for Halloween)

I have not posted nor suported jewwatch, i said some of their info is accurate but i myself support myself with valid neutral links that tend to include Jews who speak out negatively about what Israel and US jewry is doing to Poland.


I have poste in this thread sources containing the following:

1. Multiple accounts from witnesses describing anti-Polonist racism of Jews.
2. Proof of official racist anti-Polish documents supported by Israel.
3. Renowned Israeli profesor speaking out in accordance with the Polish victims of Israeli Jewish racism, condemning the racist policies of his country.
4. Two sources by independent historians listing and describing how Polish citizens of Jewish descent betrayed Poland during WW2 and then went on to murder Poles in service of Soviet Russia (i can post more).

You have failed to adress any of the points instead you kept avoiding them, producing straw arguments or outright lying like here, yes i have proven my point beyond any contestation which is why you chose to ignore it rather then adress it.


Poles as a nation bear no responsibility because events of anti-semitism were rare, much more often Jews were being saved of which over 100.000 Jewish survivors can testify, Polish Jews on the other hand bear responsibility as a group since majority of them did betray Poland, collaborate with Russia to murder, abuse and steal from their former Polish hosts.

I have provided valid sources containing research from which you have escaped into laughing ridiculing or just avoiding them, untill you can disprove my claims and the sources that prove them, yes i have proven my point and you have none except for a highly biased, anti-Polish opinion and lies that you're unable to back up with any substantial online source.

This is why i am not following Jola on his mild and liberal approach, throught this thread by ignoring claims backed by evidence, countering historical sources and witness accounts with strawman arguments you have proven that you're nothing short of a dishonest liar biased towards the Jewish side of the discussion to the detriment of basic decency, you're ready to resort to lying and strawmaning just to avoid admitting that Jews during WW2 bear co-responsibility with the Germans and the Soviets for the destruction of Poles.

It is a little known fact that Polish anti-Semitism has had an economic history. Back when, there was a deal struck, on which the Jews defaulted, which brings us to the said animosity, that the Jews would cut the Poles in on the diamond cutting racket. It is understandable that the Poles feel left out by their older brothers in faith. With all the silly Americans spending their three month's wages on a silly stone which is plentiful and hardly rare, the cash we could have made has gone in front of our noses. That sort of thing would even PiS off the Dalai Lama.

There was another deal made with the bagel profit sharing. The bagel was invented in Poland. It is eaten by all Americans, nay, swallowed like M&M's, and where is our cut, I ask you? Not many people know about these secret agreements.

M-G, how did you know I am wearing Levi Strauss jeans today?

I don't know precesily to which statements do you refer. However if I recall correctly Yehudi refused to recognize such crimes to be committed by Jews, because this was job of atheist (communist) Jewry. He doesn't consider such people to be Jewish, thus his position origin from his religious beliefs. You can refuse to accept such perspective but it doesn't mean that he is dishonest. This is approach popular in religious Jewish circles, I know from personal experience.

M-G on other hand, an atheist Jew himself (correct me if I'm wrong!) and left-wing historian might be simply interested to cover crimes committed by his brothers in ideology.

I noticed double standards in his posting. Commenting about bishop Williamson statement, he claimed that Williamson denied holocaust (in fact he highly lowered the number of Jewish victims). M-G named Williamson to be criminal, I understand that place of criminals is in prison. Here he spoked openly against freedom of speech, freedom to debate historic issues (a self-declared historian !!!).

In other thread debating about Katyn, M-G refused to name this crime to be a genocide despite the fact that it fits perfectly to UN's definition of genocide. According to his previous logic, many of us could name him to be a criminal. He feel free to authoritatively without any logical line name some crimes to be genocides and some other crimes not. Of course crimes committed on Poles somehow doesn't fit to his own definition of genocide. Apparently only criminals could disagree. :)