What is the future of Catholic church in Poland.

how's that u.s. economy doing?
"can" is the operative word your using but it can also be used to line the pockets of the rich and can be used to fuel massive government waste programs that, you guessed it, get the rich richer. Not too mention the strong back of the middle class can be relied on too often when the chips are down until the middle class effectively becomes one large lower class. Funny how that's when religion reallly picks up again, ain't it?

Hey Seanus, you watch this yet?

I'll have a look at it. Haven't got 2 hours at the moment tho.

Have a read of the link above Ian, quite revealing.

"But if that person tries to infect others with their homosexuality, then the state must intervene in this violation of freedom."

This says it all, from Lech Kaczyński. Infecting people, that's a terrible way to put it. Violation of what freedom? The freedom of association? The freedom to choose? There is a magic word, NO. People have that right to say it.

lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/mar/08031904.html, hilarious from monkey boy

'We sin when we deliberately do what we believe is wrong', from the following, dignityusa.org/faq.html. This is from a priest with 28 years experience. Homosexuals, acting from their 'genetic programming', clearly don't sin

I am Catholic and I am moving to Poland. Catholic Church is going to be stronger ^^

As long as it's the revisionist version of it, we have nothing to fear. I don't think Tusk is a homophobe, unlike Jarosław Kaczyński. I have no time for judgemental, holier-than-thou characters.

You have Jehovah's Witness personality. :)

In what way? I met some of them in Hiroshima, I can't see how I'm anything like them Clara. They have agendas to thrust on u.

Yeah, I just looked it up. Nobody ever killed anyone during crusades according to the rules of Christian mercy and the fifth commandment. These were just some priest walking around and teaching Gospel. Of course...

I think the appoinment of the new Pope stuck in the craws of many Poles. However, the church has a future as it has been part of the fabric of Polish society for so long. Traditions are well rooted.

See? What did I tell you?

Well, actually my hobby is to read political books, thus I'm very accurate as far as political labels are concentrated. Vast majority of people using political labels without any sense and thus it is hard to communicate with them effectively.

I read many your posts and you seems to be leftist. For sure not a liberal. Well, some people talk about liberal-left but leftists are liberal only 'od pasa w dół'. :)


Actually I'm not interested in their private life. When I see inaccurate comments then try to correct them. I don't think that this is necessary to lie to make somebody feel better, this is short-sighted strategy.

I would like to point out that 'sin' is not a scientific term. You might join to some churches where sins are defined differently, you are free and membership in the CC is voluntary.


Welcome, this is immigration policy that I like. :)


Don't forget about ecumenical masses.

If somebody want to read something on this subject I recommend Balard and Madden.


He seems to be better than JPII IMO.

Do you realise that the word 'liberal' has many meanings, not only as in 'economic liberalism'?

Lesser, u r about as liberal as Thatcher was. U r a right-winger with leanings off the edge of the right end of the spectrum. U r about to fall.

I know what a liberal is, I studied John Stuart Mill and other libertarians at Uni. I much better fit the bill than u do.

U r right, Switezianka, Lesser doesn't get it. He just loves labels. He is defensive and mirrors his complexes onto others.

For me, people can cast their stones if they wish, I really don't give a hang what the CC considers to be sin.

Of course, I have some sympathy to libertarian movement. For example I criticize the EU on this forum mainly from liberal perspective, although I'm not pure libertarian.


Yes I'm rightist, conservative-liberal. I think that I'm more conservative than Thatcher.


There is no emotions in political labeling on my side. You see in other topic I have argument with some poster when I rejected claim that Jaruzelski was hard-line communist. I may assure you that I don't feel any sympathy to Jaruzelski.

There is a way of looking at people's political leanings on a two-dimensional chart like this:

........authoritarian........

left.......................right

..........libertarian..........

Many talk of left and right with their own perceptions of whether the left or the right is liberal or authoritarian, or vice-versa. I think it may be even more helpful if political opinion could be displayed in some sort of three-dimensional sphere-diagram. Maybe even four dimensions, but time is not a practical dimension to use diagramatically:

"Wait for it... wait for it... NOW!
... and that's where I am, politically. Did that work with the stopwatch?"

Well, we agree now then. U said we never would. U r right to test the spots of communists. They sway with the breeze. They are very untrustworthy people. I'd much rather be a conservative liberal than a commie. Commies can be bought and sold. Conservatives stand their ground and stick to their guns, generally anyway.

Yes, this is very good chart. I marked my views.

That is such a great quote! Seriously- a quote for the ages.
I am a young Pole (living in Canada) and yes the west isn't all that it's cracked up to be. Poland shouldn't change to be like everyone else. Be unique. Don't be like the French and look away from Catholicism (their roots) while being taken over by Muslims slowly but surely (it's a fact, sorry).

I have a st**id Canadian acquintance who was Catholic but now claims to hate the Catholic church because of it's "backward'' ways. He claims to be Atheist and therefore more "progressive". Fine, people can have opinions on these matters. But I've told him before that once he gets sick or his family becomes gravely ill he'll be on his knees praying to God.

I think it still has a steady future but the death of JPII 4 years ago was a body blow to its aspirations. He was a figurehead of the highest order for Poles. I think the number of practising Catholics has substantially dwindled.

I don't think so, Seanus. This was pretty pathetic that JPII got often pop-star treatment in Poland. I'm happy that new pope is not Polish and even happier that this is Benedict XVI. The right man on the right place.

Pop stars aren't popular? What does pop mean, lesser? ;) ;) You can't seriously say that the numbers haven't dropped after his death.

If somebody stopped to attend to church only because late Pope passed away, I ask whether this is serious person? Popularity was good but only to such extend when people listened to his words. Crowds cheering him in the middle of mass, this is a farce. Catholicism is not about personal fan club of Pope.

Tell me then, what is Catholicism about for you? My Polish friend thinks differently from you, lesser. He agrees with me.

Stopped attending. Stopped to attend means sth very different.

There is some doctrine, teaching that especially clergy is obligated to spread, while ordinary members of the church should be obedient. Personal popularity of each every priest is welcome as long as it serve the goal. It must be in shadow.


About what?


Please explain...

What is the future of Catholic church in Poland.

Simple answer to this. No future.

Terminal decline.

Liberal forces are squeezing morality and family life out of Poland.

Soon it will be like UK- anything goes, broken society beyond all recognition.

Sad really, but people vote with their feet.

Soon fascination with leftism will be over in the west as well. There was many periods of time with smaller and bigger attendance at churches. For example in the UK Catholicism is growing also duo to Polish, Slovak, Hungarian and Lithuanian immigration. Some time ago I read that Catholic Church have already the biggest attendance in the UK. Catholic Church is eternal.

It's sad to face impending doom Lesser I know.

Compare poland 10,15 years ago to now and try to make a case that it is not on the journey I outline above.

It is sad but not so much if you know that this is temporary tendency. Like global warming and global cooling. :)

Jewish schools in Poland are utterly conservative(I have friends that have attended them). I would think that the woman made a bigger mistake sending her child there than a Polish public school. I mean for example: public schools in Poland teach evolution, where in private institutions it's completely up to them to make the curriculum.

As for your future perception. According to the EU polls and UN WDR, Christianity has been increasing. I presume you mean the weakening of Church and State? I suppose so. From what I've seen a state can be religious and still claim tolerance. This is seen in many countries. The church shall remain a religious institution as always, but I would presume it will also always have ties to politics. Being that there are religious politicians, and the church getting involved in many ways both socially and economically. But the church in modern times isn't a stone in Polish politics as one might strongly see it, just an underlying influence thats migrated there overtime.

As for the thread starter: no, I doubt he/she was rejected into the EU for that. The majority of people that hold political seats in the EU are religious and christian.

To Orzel: I'm disgusted by your ignorance. Your claiming that religion is the reason why Poland is where it is today(which according to EU figures is pretty good)? If you really want to bring religion into this then fine. Fact: Poland wouldn't have the vast problems that it does today, if Stalin's atheistic communist regime had stayed out of Poland to begin with. So should I go around blaming atheists for Polands problems now? Such close-mindedness on your part. The church in Poland isn't what it might be in other areas of the world. It accounts for the vast majority of charity in the nation and has helped hospitals, educational systems, and the poor gravely. If your issue is with Polands modern problems of economy and infastructure, then that isn't the Poles and Poland's relgious problems. Ironically it was because of a regime that purged both of those as you insist on doing now.

To the Ancient Greek commentors: Religion in Ancient Greece was an odd thing. Let me start by saying that after the execution of Socrates for his atheism, atheim and agnostism became widespread in Ancient Greece. I believe some historians even say almost half of them were of such beliefs and it became a norm. As for the Greek Gods, yes it was like church today, but was used immensly for art, poetics, and mythology as Epiricus himself put it. It was believed by many, however religion in Ancient Greece wasn't as big as one might assume, and the ones that existed weren't enforced or enthralled. It was usually top philosophers and Ancient Greek notables that are known today that often had the stage for public opinion and thought, and they tended to be atheistic/agnostic. However mind you, Ancient Greece had become a country that was very dependent upon it sciences, arts, and most of all philosophies, and religion wasn't as focused to be structured like moderns religions are and priests weren't as widespread or popular. Hence, if God ever came into the picture at the intellectual scene of Ancient Greece it was either in the form of pantheism or agnostism (philisophical based arguments). Even people like Plato and Socrates claimed that using terms such as "By Zeus" were merely euphemisms such as one might say today: "My God! or Good Lord!". But nontheless religion did have a strong hold to be able to carry on into the Roman Empire and to merge to create their first religions.

Personally, I see it ironic how people at the time looked down upon the Ancient Greeks for having their liberal democratic system and having their widespread logistics and atheism/agnostism. Yet after years of fallen governments, kingdoms, empires, regimes, the modern world in majority has come back to the concept of democracy and the matter of logistics that the Ancient Greeks had.

Anyway, that's my reply for all this. Good day all.

the power of the church will vanish in Poland in 10-15 years (of course I mean RC church)

Great, tell that to to 97.3% of Catholics in Poland....