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What are the economical chances of Poland?


Sobottka 2 | 106  
12 Sep 2008 /  #1
The world's economic is running faster and faster! We all must globalize what ever should be the price! If there are needs to make war in Afghanistan or Iraque, in Kasachstan, Africa or wherever - hesitation would be deadly, the soldiers are to go to all frontiers with all power! Of course - there will be some collateral damages - here 200 children and women, there a few huts with civilists, sometimes own soldiers getting killed by friendly fire, but that has not to matter! Globalization is worthy paying every price, human lifes und health haven't to count!

In this situation it is a serious question: What has Poland to offer to the world's market? Only gherkins and sausage? Or what else?
Gab - | 133  
12 Sep 2008 /  #2
You sound like Adolf Hitler.
What does Germany have to offer: schnitzels and swastika?
bolek 6 | 330  
13 Sep 2008 /  #3
What has Poland to offer, I'm afraid very little unless you are dishonest or belong to the mafia.
dcchris 8 | 432  
13 Sep 2008 /  #4
traditionally poland offered labor to the world but now some highly educated workers but the world economy is slowing at this time not growing. many poles are returning
OP Sobottka 2 | 106  
13 Sep 2008 /  #5
No one really thinks that my words about globalization and wars weren't ironacally. But the evil truth is that they contain the measure of true politic.

Otherwise I haven't opened this threat to talk about wars but to talk about Polish chances. I am an Economical, have worked as an EDV-Expert and as a consultant for years and I am an Insider of Markets. And so I want to give my best to explain strategies that could be very useful for Poland and other countries as Poland, for Czech, Moldova, Slovakia and so on.

The dominating people in Germany, France and so on are altogether not interested in a real coming up of Poland and so on. They would be only concurrents. And especially the dominating people in Germany do not want a strong Poland, they want Poland as weak as possible to buy it cheap and to dominate it. That is the real truth.

Before I will explain my suggstestions to You, I want to explain something for better understanding. The economics are lieing regarding important points, so they affirm that free market-economics are the way for best using of all resources.

You can easily see that this is wrong: The producers of goods aren't interested in producing goods You can use forever, they are interested in producing goods that You will not use forever, the earlier You buy a new good from them, the better.

The aim in free market-economics is thus not to ensure best using of resources, but to maximize profit without regarding further conditions. That is the way to kill mankind, but that is the way that those countries which do not wish a strong Poland, a strong Czech, a strong Moldavia, a strong Slovakia, a strong Serbia and so on are following.

The first messages from me to You all is: On that way Poland, Czech and so on will have no chances, because Germany, France, Britain and so on have all advantages on their sides: Much more money, much better infra-structures, much better connections.

Is there any one among You having any objections up to now? I will give the next entry later, and I ask You to make a good discussion with me, it is a really important thing!
szkotja2007 27 | 1,499  
13 Sep 2008 /  #6
The world's economic is running faster and faster!

....faster and faster straight in to a recession.

If you dont believe me, I have some magic beans you may be interested in.
GodandBrown 2 | 63  
13 Sep 2008 /  #7
Discussion? What discussion? You have just made your points. Any doubts? Globalisation doesn't work in that way. Globalisation is not always fair and a free market still an illusion, but without globalisation Poland would not get any money from the EU. The only problem is that this money is dirty enough to destroy Polish culture and cultures worlwide. But that is another story.
OP Sobottka 2 | 106  
13 Sep 2008 /  #8
Globalisation could be fair and must be fair and that is one of the reasons I am writing here. Otherwise no one should be so naive to think EU-money for Poland would be a present - it was the mean to attract Poland coming to the EU, it is a mean to keep Poland in the EU, and it is a mean of making Poland dependent from the EU. The EU-money is not given by Jesus or Franz of Assissi.

Have a look at poor states in Africa that are receiving money from the World's Bank and from states as the FRG for decades and then analyse what kind of effects it has given: They are still poor, but absolutely dependent on the goodwill of World's Bank and on the goodwill of states as the FRG.

Nice outlook for Poland, Czech, Slovakia, Moldavia, Romania, Serbia, Croatia and so on?

Globalisation is not always fair and a free market still an illusion, but without globalisation Poland would not get any money from the EU.

dcchris 8 | 432  
13 Sep 2008 /  #9
Globalisation could be fair and must be fair

capitalism is unfair it is the survival of the strong darwinism if u will
OP Sobottka 2 | 106  
13 Sep 2008 /  #10
Right, dcchris, so let us try to find an intelligent solution to override capitalism not by annother wrong ideology, but by reason and humanity. You and all other ones who want to get that aim are asked now to give their best in this discussion! First I will bring in some basics of a successful strategy, not in abstract words, but easily to understand. And then, so I hope, we will have a common discussion to get to practical ways to procedures, that people in Poland and other countries with the same problems can use next day, tomorrow or one day later.

Cause I do not want always mention the name of all nations/states with those problems I hope You will agree that I will mention Poland furthermore only, the reason is only not to write so much, not that I wouldn't respect the other nations minor than Poland!

capitalism is unfair it is the survival of the strong darwinism if u will

The first rule must be: Do not be proud of demonstrating that You can buy expensive goods, cause that is a way the capitalists can take best use of Your income!

The truth is: Poland needs investitions, and every Pole can give any Euro to have consume or to invest! The clever Pole drives a car if he needs a car, but he drives a car at low costs, it doesn't matter to him whether the neighbour has a bigger or newer car or not. He is self-confident cause he is able to think and he is righteous, he doesn't need a big car, expensive cloths or other things like that for his self-confidence.

And because he is able to think, he gives his best to develope Poland to a country where he and his children will have a happy and safety future!

The more clever Poles, the better will be the developement.
Michal2 - | 78  
13 Sep 2008 /  #11
oland to offer to the world's market?

Only wodka and the Polonez motor car.
GodandBrown 2 | 63  
13 Sep 2008 /  #12
Sobottka

The truth is: Poland needs investitions, and every Pole can give any Euro to have consume or to invest! The clever Pole drives a car if he needs a car, but he drives a car at low costs, it doesn't matter to him whether the neighbour has a bigger or newer car or not. He is self-confident cause he is able to think and he is righteous, he doesn't need a big car, expensive cloths or other things like that for his self-confidence.

You are right, but it is science-fiction!
Wroclaw Boy  
13 Sep 2008 /  #13
We all must globalize what ever should be the price! If there are needs to make war in Afghanistan or Iraque, in Kasachstan, Africa or wherever - hesitation would be deadly, the soldiers are to go to all frontiers with all power!

Globalisation the termination of terrosrist states! Is that how it works?

What has Poland to offer to the world's market?

Not a lot, just sit tight and let the big EU dogs handle it.
10iwonka10 - | 396  
13 Sep 2008 /  #14
What has Poland to offer to the world's market?

cheaper labour, space for opening new factories, supermarkets( tesco, carrefour....) and more customers ( 40 million) to buy overproductions of goods from West Europe....
dcchris 8 | 432  
13 Sep 2008 /  #15
ok well what poland needs is not more foreign investment but to take control of its own business. look at all these big banks here which are foreign owned it is tough to find a bank which is actually polish and how about the telecom companies?
10iwonka10 - | 396  
13 Sep 2008 /  #16
My reply was rather sarcastic and direct answer to question 'What Poland can offer......'
OP Sobottka 2 | 106  
13 Sep 2008 /  #17
Probably You may be the only Pole in this forum who has recognised the problem for himself. But it is a light of hope that the others might be able to understand, too.

The truth is, that Polish people will have to act in community and lead by the spirit of community if they don't want to come under the wheels of subtile but very evil acting capitalism of today. It is only another kind of war, but You all should know that this is not a war of nations against nations on the other side, it is a war the rich against all others. I am a German, as You know, but I will act in this war as a true brother of all righteous people in the world, so as a true brother of all righteous Poles, too. Poland must be in the hands of Poles, not in the hands of foreigners.

I will write more at night or tomorrow, there are some things to do outside my home.

ok well what poland needs is not more foreign investment but to take control of its own business. look at all these big banks here which are foreign owned it is tough to find a bank which is actually polish and how about the telecom companies?

I want to give You a first hint: The capitalists don't give the consumers that what they really want. That is a condition for selling more and more, for instance, that You never could buy products that are of use for Your whole life. That is the reason that fashion changes and so on.

You have to look at those things: Which products can You make better in a way the capitalists refuse to go? Only on that field You can beat them, but not on their own fields!

For instance: Buy a coffee machine from Philipps or Siemens. The can is made of very thinn glass. It is only a subject of time that You will damage the can. Then You can decide whether buying a new can or a new coffee machine. A new can for a Philipps coffee machine costs around 18 Euro. If a buy a glass full of Polish Gerkhins I have to pay minor then 2 Euro, for Gherkins and glass together. The Gherkins' glass is much better than the Philipps-coffee-can - nearly undestroyable.

That is one example only, there are so much examples for making products better in a way the captalists refuses to go! Taken Polish undertakings would specialize to do that way, so that would bring to advantages: The Poles theirself would save on consumers costs, and they would have an advantage in export.
dcchris 8 | 432  
13 Sep 2008 /  #18
Probably You may be the only Pole

I stand complimented but alas I am not polish
OP Sobottka 2 | 106  
13 Sep 2008 /  #19
Don't mind, dcchris - You can be a good man even if You are not a Pole!
Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535  
13 Sep 2008 /  #20
I think Poland should think more on its employment issues. As the younger generation and people who seek their own home increases... Poland must look into this matter deeply.

We have enough land. We are a relatively big country in Europe. Still, owning a home is not within the reach of many Poles. Which is not something the Poles are happy about.

While the economy might be looking better than what it was probably 10 years ago. But, I seriously doubt the satisfaction level of people. Yes, it helps with the self-respect among when you go to a gathering. But at the end of the day, we need more job security, and an assurance to be able to own our own homes. All of us...in Poland.
Dekameron 1 | 146  
13 Sep 2008 /  #21
Why is Sobottka still not banned ?
OP Sobottka 2 | 106  
13 Sep 2008 /  #22
Why should I get banned? Please tell us the reason for that, Dekameron!

Why is Sobottka still not banned ?

***********************
You Poles should better not have believed in the fairy stories You have heard by Uncle Gerhard Schröder and Aunt Angela Merkel. In Germany are living millions of people in pauperism because the rich ones in Germany cannot get enough. You Poles should finish dreaming and crying and start thinking and doing, then and only then You will get what You want.

Employment needs goods that can be sold and safety jobs can only ly in the hands of those one who are doing the job: What brings a foreign factory in Poland if it is going the way of rationalising up to that point when robots are doing the work? And what brings a foreign factory in Poland when the managers say: "Sorry, but it will be cheaper to produce in India furthermore, we have to say Good Bye!" ?

Those incorporations who are buying Polish ground and infra-structure do not do that cause they want that young Polish people will get their own houses but to make profit only. That will not change, whether You like it or not.

I think Poland should think more on its employment issues. As the younger generation and people who seek their own home increases... Poland must look into this matter deeply.

beckyinjozefow 1 | 27  
13 Sep 2008 /  #23
The truth is, that Polish people will have to act in community and lead by the spirit of community if they don't want to come under the wheels of subtile but very evil acting capitalism of today.

And what is your point?
OP Sobottka 2 | 106  
13 Sep 2008 /  #24
That Poland should go ways to own economical success. I have written some thinks about that yet, cannot You read?
southern 75 | 7,096  
13 Sep 2008 /  #25
An anarchist Poland is bound to success.
OP Sobottka 2 | 106  
13 Sep 2008 /  #26
Anarchy means that all are thinking, all are discussing and all are deciding. I don't know a better way to get the best decisions that are possible.

Would anyone here prefer the decisions of German capitalists as laws for Poland?
Gab - | 133  
13 Sep 2008 /  #27
Sobottka,

You're kidding, right?

You sound so "righteous" and pompous at the same time, it's actually sickening. And that lecturing tone of your posts... I don't think you're looking to get any answers here. I hate to admit it, but an "expert" you claim to be should know what Poland can offer, from the economical standpoint, of course. And the economical situation of Germany has gone downhill compared to what it used to be years ago which, I'm sure an expert like yourself, should be aware of that fact as well.

I get the feeling you're trying to belittle Poland's potential and at the same time put Germany on the pedestal. Not for nothing, but Germany is not that attractive economically any more. You should know it. I'm not saying it's hit the lowest bottom. So, let's be objective here, otherwise this discussion serves no purpose whatsoever.
OP Sobottka 2 | 106  
14 Sep 2008 /  #28
Gab, You are defaming me and trying to agitate Poles against me. The truth is that Poles, Czechs and so on are not to be begrudged in this times and that there are many Germans and so on lieing to them because of very unfine reasons. I want to tell them the truth and I do not only give statesments but give my best to name the reasons for those statements,too.

I do not think that any people of any nation are more or minor worthy than any others, and I don't think me to be the best or something like that. I belong to the Anarchists and among us there or the very most intelligent women and men around the whole world. I myself do not belong to the very most intelligent ones, but that doesn't matter: We Anarchists all want the same and that is true justice/righteousness and true reason for all people around the world and true unity among all people around the world.

Furthermore: If You want to defame me or to agitate against me then please open a special thread for that. The subject of this thread is to present ways for a good and righteous economic for countries like Poland, and we German Anarchists hope for countries as Poland, because if they would go the right ways, countries as Germany would be forced to follow by time. Mankind is going to kill herself, that must be finished as soon as possible.

By the name of German Anarchists

Winfried Sobottka, a speaker of Anarchists in Austria and in FRG, which together build our German Motherland.

Sobottka,

You're kidding, right?

I had written the last entry in very short time in an Internet-Café so there is a mistke I couldn't correct later but I want to do it this way:

I belong to the Anarchists and among us there are the very most intelligent women and men around the whole world.

Jesus was an Anarchist, Sokrates was an Anarchist, Gelileo Galilei was an Anarchist, Sophie Scholl was an Anarchist, Albert Einstein was an Anarchist.

And I want to supplement one fact: Following our Genoms/our nature there is only one measure for the worth of human beings: Righteous and prepared to give their best to mankind - or not. All other measures make us frustrated, ill and evil.

**********************************+
No I want to give examples for a better economy, later I will write about necessary conditions if a better economy shall be for the use of all people and not for the richdom of some people only: It would not be a real advantage for the Polish People if a few Poles would be the richest people all over the whole world - You ca see that in Germany! The whole income of Germans as the whole richdom of Germans is much hiher the ebver before. But otherwise there are millions of Germans living in pauperism also much more than ever before.

First example: Polands agriculture products.

Buy a Pizza or some other meal from the freezer in a Supermarket, then go and anylyze the costs of the ingredients. Of course You'll find out that it would be much cheaper to buy the ingredients and make Your own pizza.

That means: If Poles want take most advantage out of their agriculturing they have to refine their elemental products to products as freezed meals for instance. So they would have more to do in Poland and would get money for that work by selling their freezer meals.

People in Germany, Britain, France and so on buy lots of freezer meals. If the quality is good and well documentated (declaration of ingredients, mentioned if biological), they would buy Polish freezer meals as well as any others.

Countries as Great Britain have made their richdom over centuries by buying basic materials around the world and forming them to end-products. Those countries that only sold her basic-materials have kept in pauperism with the exception of the oil-exporting countries.
Gab - | 133  
14 Sep 2008 /  #29
You are all over the map. Go ahead and work for the EU or the United Nations where you can present your opinions and get something resolved. I don't think this forum will satisfy your ambitions. Anyways, good luck to you with whatever it is you are trying to accomplish.
OP Sobottka 2 | 106  
14 Sep 2008 /  #30
Why being so evil? Do You think it would be better for Poland selling only gherkins and sausage and hoping for Angela Merkel will be their angle?

Where are Your arguments against my words? Nowhere!

You belong to those who are fighting in this forum to make Poles naive and idiotical, that is the truth.

You are all over the map. Go ahead and work for the EU or the United Nations where you can present your opinions and get something resolved. I don't think this forum will satisfy your ambitions. Anyways, good luck to you with whatever it is you are trying to accomplish.

A little example for selling good Pizzas (or anything else)

1. You must be better than German producers if possible, but that is no problem: Nearly all of them are betraying the consumers. Mostly You don't know what You are really buying, and the politicians are not demonstrating much interest to change that by setting laws - as in other cases they declare it would be enough to appeal to the sense of responsibility of the producers/ the industry. Very nice words to say that the producers/the industry should do what ever they want. This is a real problem, one of the most intelligent members of the German Parliament (Deutscher Bundestag), Renate Künast, is going to explode about things like that.

2. You must give the consumers a full look into producing and sourcing, in times of internet not a thing that must be very expensive.

Lets take a pizza for instance:

You don't use cereal having grown up under protection of Bayer Leverkusen, BASF or any other producers of toxin. The same concerning vegetable and all other ingredients. The meat You need should be taken by oecological farming, too: Oecological agriculture and farming offer several advantages: You can sell those products for higher prices and oecological agriculture and farming spend more jobs.

You make a movie about all farmers where You buy Your Pizza-Ingredients, and that movie is to reach from Your Homepage. On every Pizza-Pack You declare using only oecological ingredients and give the advice to Your homepage.

Furthermore the production must be absolutely clean, the rooms/the interior, and the people making pizza must be dressed as nurses during an operation, using gloves and so on. It must look so fine that it should not be a problem to install cameras in the producing-rooms which sends the look into internet. That means of course that the working personal needs paid breaks, cause it is not acceptable to be watched around the day - 45 min. working, 15 minutes break, for instance.

That way Poland could sell freezed Pizzas not only for best prices, but would give a contribution to upgrade the image of Poland and it's products.

There is a problem that way that there are existing opinions in Germany that Poles are not so interested in cleaness and in professionalism of their own doing, no wonder regarding the SS-past and -presence. I myself, having a Polish name, took notice of that more than once. Those false personnel reviews are to be fought - by doing well and letting all people see it! The Internet is the cheap media to make that possible.

Having written "advantages" I didn't only mean polish workers. Being successful in markets needs more the the ability to of hands:

1. You must know what the consumers really want.

2. You must know what they can get by others.

3. You must be able to offer and distribute Your goods and to organize service if needed.

I think there are Polish Shops in nearly every German town at this time, so Poles, if working together, can have a basement regarding those three points: The sales personal has a direct relation to customers and knows about customers sorrows and wishes because of own experiences as consumers in Germany, too. There are many problems for German consumers, it is not the situation that they all are really happy about the offering in German market:

- products that cannot stand normal using for long time, although it would be possible to build products that could

- products having true weak points as for instance the phillips coffee-machines with very delicate cans, that cost around 18 Euro if You need one for substitution,

- very expensive replacement parts

- expensive attachement that You need always, You know that problem regarding original-cartridges of Hewlett-Packard for instance

- products that need to much energy because of the network between electro-factories and corporations of energy accomodation, one catchword is stand-by-function

- products that You cannot repair Yourself although it could be made easily, for instance the new cars of VW: If an electric bulb of the front light has died, a mechanician needs more than half an hour to change a new for it, a normal driver has nearly no chance to accomplish that.

The line is the following: Not the consumers wishes do count, but only the wishes of industries that want to sell as much as possible. Producers who would use that fact to give the consumers what the established concerns refuse to give them would roll up the whole market not only in Germany. Buy an ISDN-telephone by Telekom, manufactured by Siemens. Anything will make problems not in the first wo years - so long the consumer has guarantee. But not really much later. It seems really as some German corporations are doing research to produce products that way that they stand the time of guarantee but then go dead.

Often it must not be very expensive to produce better products - a glass-can for a coffee-machine could surely be produced in any existing Polish glass-factory, for instance.

There would be a market for safety electro cars, but German producers don't think about that. They are marriaged with the oil-concerns and the rich ones are interested in maximal gasoline-consumption because that is a way to let the people that are not rich pay a lots of taxes - so that the state has no need to tax the incomes of the rich ones more.

Good research of consumers wishes and good looking for niches that the established producers not are willed to fill because of any dirty reasons would be an absolutely necessary condition for true Polish success in economy.

It may seem much easier to follow the "clues" of the EU - but that would lead into the wrong direction, cause the leading nations in the EU are altogether uninterested in getting new competitors for their own corporations in Poland and so on. Poles have to think for themselves and to look for themselves and to act for themselves if they don't want to go down.

PS.: Very good ideas regarding better products are to get from: Renate Künast, Deutscher Bundestag, Berlin.

PPS. More in more toxins in the drinking water linked with growing consciousness about deseases as MCS open chances for additional water-clearing at home, ascending prices for energy open chances for better technologies at home, and Germany is not really good in that market-field, because progress would minor the profit of the engery-corporations. Sometimes easy things would bring the success, furthermore Pole habe technicians theirself and could buy special parts of systems everywhere in the world. That are fields the EU won't help Poland to use them, but Renate Künast could give informations and so on.

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