Polish "brainbox" comes back to Poland from the UK for a better education

I take it that (even) you passed it then??

It is simple what happens.Society presses teachers and proffessors to lower their standards as to accept more people in universities.So they accpet more people even though they think many of them do not have the intellectual capability to study.Other people claim this is good for the economy other think it has no meaning to give degrees to so many people.

I share your point of view.

like in other european countries

Yes but the problem is that the Polish system is still fundamentally flawed and thus declining standards are even more of a worry. The Polish system is based on memorising, not understanding. Students need to remember a vast amount of data but not use that data in any way other than repeating it. They therefore cram lots in but then forget it immediately after the exam.

This system also opens the door to massive cheating because it enables exam takers to simply write down lots of key facts and bring those into the exam with them.

Why is memorizing bad,my friend?


Do you think students in other countries can remember more months after the exam?


Massive cheatng is allowed by lack of control by teachers.If they wanted,they could control it.

theres nothing wrong with memorising, mimicking what youve been told. parrots do it and they are very clever birds.

a good education is not about memorisation. a good education is about learning, understanding and being able to critically think, note repeate from rote... like parrots

Can you tell me why SAT exams in USA include so much memorization?The Americans promote deliberately bad education?


How can you critically think if you ignore the data on which you have to think?If you understand and cannot recall the subject what value does it have?

there is a significant difference. if you had benefited from an education that demanded more than repetition you might be able to see this


i said nothing about ignoring data. this is indicative of one of the biggest differences between polish and english mentality. the british are able to structure sound and logical arguments based on fact. poles tend introduce concepts that are irrelevant to the argument or, as in your case, introduce something totally unrelated

I was benefited by an education that demanded both repetition and abstract thinking.This is the classic form of academic education.
I think that critical thinking issues are used by those who fail repeatedely in exams because they do not have the zeal or the ability to learn.So they attribute their failure to lack of demands regarding critical thinking.I tell you one thing.If you ask these persons who complain about critical thinking issues to face cquestions demanding critical thinking they will fail miserably again and will attribute their failure to lack of a specific source o material to learn.

The right solution is the balanced one.Memorization and critical thinking.They can coexist.The one does not exclude the other.In real word how many times are we asked to come up with data immediately from memory and how many times are we asked to produce critical thinking too?Both appear in same extent.

As far as it concerns the polish way of building arguments,I have noticed that Poles in the forum tend to build very strong and inspired arguments which may be distant from common arguments but show that they have understood the concepts right.

The English tend to build arguments based more on common sense than on inspiration and based definetely more on personal feelings than on written data.

So Poles tend to use a lot of data(maybe result of their academic education) while English tend to use more personal approaches(maybe due to a more free education) which always focus on common sense.

Believe me, there was very little sense in my education, common or otherwise.
I taught myself how to think. School taught me how to pretend that I wasn't.

Your statements about logic are illogical.

On the one hand you state that the British "are able" to structure logical arguments. But do they? Aren't Poles "able to" produce similarly structured arguments? You are not providing an answer, so in the end you are not comparing British logic to Polish. Instead you refer to an alleged way Poles present arguments by proposing a non-contrasting method - i.e. that they introduce unrelated/irrelevant information.

Is that information really unrelated? Is it really irrelevant, or is it you who cannot readily see the relevance of the additional information. Or are you simply unable to make a connection between the argument and data you are unfamiliar with?

That alleged "irrelevant" information may be simply further clarification, comparison, illustration, background information, explanation of context etc.

A simple example:

1+1=2
1+1=11

Both are true if we know all the facts, background and context. Logic alone is useless when facts come to play.

In conclusion; since your post doesn't adhere to basic principles of logic and debate you don't appear to be in a position to decide whose arguments are logical and whose aren't.

The concepts are not irrelevant to the argument,however they are not derived from common sense.They are forced outside common sense.It is not that they do not have value but they cannot have an industrial production effect eg influencing the masses,so the practical mind disregards them as unrelated.

Oh man, i'm going to get murdered for this but

I and a few other foreign "associates" have often marvelled at how often that occurs among Poles when a discussion arises. Maybe it's our fault in not being "abstract" enough though. However this is not the first time i've seen that criticism levied against "Polish" argument techniques.

Now z_daruis has done a very sound job of owning logic and I really do see where he's coming from however sometimes an argument can be so "out there" rely on so many other suppositions where it just reduces a discussion or a debate to pointless hyptheticals and semantics that the result is that everything gets removed from any context and just one big "blah."

*hides from z_daruis*

wait... dont tell me... youre polish, huh?


like most things connected with poland, the prime example being the language, polish arguement techniques tend to be a lot more abstract than they actually need to be.

but credit where its due

if you come up with an arguement that is so abstract and illogical that the person you are debating with just has a wtf expression on their face you tend to win the arguement... even if its by default

It is industrial thinking.A Westerner would think.How many people can I convince with this argument?Let's say 95%.This means,the argument is good.It is good because it convinces the average person since it relies on common sense.

A Pole would think.Can I win this argument against this particular person?Yes.Because he cannot stand up to the level of complexity.How many people can I convince with this argument?I don't care.Even if it is 5% I don't care.Because the goal is to win against the particular person.So he does not make mass production,common arguments but highly refined,detailed,abstract,conceptual arguments for local,limited use.

For the Westerner all this seems impractical and waste of resources and time.Why bother for sth that cannot apply to more than 10% of population?etc.

a good point. not one i entirely agree with but a good point none the less. it seems to rest on the logic that it doesnt matter if you are wrong, just as long as you win.

Wow! What a powerful argument!

yeah. conclusive argument. short, sharp and to the point. as a pole you should take note. nobody likes a waffler

my only question is, if your system is so superior to ours, why do a lot of poland's top students come here to study??

in growing number every year. the reason is simple. apart from having an education that teaches logical thought inline with that of the educated world, we have a language that people can actually understand.

a winning combination - as the numbers attest

it seems that on this forum we are ot this level of debate "you @#@$#$ go F**k @#$@ Yeahh" and when another side is ignoring this post. we see post "I am winner in argument" lol .


so ...

booba boor you silly monkey !

its called taking the p!ss, sunshine

is it all you have to say ?

Oh, he's just a streetwise boob. Nothing to discuss with him really. It is increasingly obvious it's a waste of time to respond to the boob's rants.

It is simple what happens.There are two ways basically to build an argument.The one is to support a thesis.The other is to destroy the thesis of the opponent.Let's call the second tactique communist style argument.

For example:Russia faces accusations about lack of democracy.Answer first style.Russia tries to prove that it respects every term related to democratic issues.

Second style:Russia says:''Oh,we see what kind of democracy you built in Iraq.''
This is communist style argument.Attack on the opponent's thesis.Or:accusation:Russia does not respect human rights.Answer communist style:''USA suppresses the rights of African-Americans.You are hypocrites''.

When an English faces communist style argument,I have noticed that he refuses to discuss probably thinking that terms of discussion are being violated and tends to answer ad hoc,that is with attacks on the person.

For example.Typical dialogue.
English(supporting thesis):Poland is a racist country
Pole:(communist style):UK is the real racist.You oppress everyone,most of all the Poles.You are hypocrites.
English:(ad hoc):You are an idiot.F#ck you silly Pole.
etc

well said.

see, them pillocks, poolumps, polaks or whatever theyre called aint so dumb afterall

I have antoher thesis.
Look how English people dealed with Irish.
"Dumb Irish, sheep fukers..."

simple method

put down, break morals, and conquer.

It is noticable that after one Poles stared to point out why nation famous form saying "we are just better" isn't better at all. We see flustarted solidarity booba boor and his company.


:) ohhhh it hurts :))))))

sorry for the vulgarity, but an old joke comes to my mind: why do dogs lick their balls? Because they can.

Same answer here. Why shouldn't they?

There are many reasons why Polish students study abroad:
- to better their command of English (or any other native language for that matter)
- to have fun, adventure and to experience a different culture
- to get as far away from home as possible (happens too)
- the top students can get high scholarships in other countries, so for the really brainy ones it may be more feasible financially to study abroad

- in general, Western universities are better known and recognized all over Europe than the Polish ones, even if the level of teaching doesn't quite justify the recognition, so they provide a student with "better" credentials for finding a good job and a better start into professional life

- when it comes to sciences, especially applied sciences, laboratory work etc., Polish universities are seriously underinvested and rarely provide students with the opportunity to do proper research

and so on and so forth.

It's not my point to prove superiority of one system over the other. I'd say they are in a way complementary, one of them equipping students with broader general knowledge and the other with a more pragmatic bias. It's perfect when you are able to combine the two approaches; Poles studying abroad might be doing just that.