Man Why Do People Like PO Instead Of PIS

it just tells you don't live long enough to understand many things - I was hardcord follower of Korwin-Mikke at this age


and you are not being ridiculous??

Best answer if somebody can't work out a good counter reply, somehow I knew you gonna say that - despite of what Sokrates gonna type in his post.

Beside behind every person's preferences stands his or her parents - so usually these are preferences of grown up people, so don't bring that rubbish up in here..

It just means that you can't prove to anyone that you're right. Simple.

I'm not a hardcore follower of any party since there's no major party that i could call honest, i just try to pick the lesser of two evils and i see things as they are.


You know whats your problem mate? Like many in of the hardcore electorate of various parties you follow a group because of personal preference.

It doesnt matter to you that PiS was stealing, squandering European grants and using completely irrelevant little scandals to cover the fact they're not doing anything about serious issues like the shipyards, what matters to you is that its PiS.

You're going to shout, patronise and ridicule becuase its your party, in a perfect world you, all people like you and all the major parties in Poland could be quietly shot behind a barn and the rest of us could build our lives here without the burden of lunatics and power hungry incompetents but i guess thats one of the cons of democracy, everyone gets a voice.


Given to what lengths PiS went disregarding the procedures in place to secure the rights of our citizens nothing about the case of Blida is set in stone, nothing.

But possibly the most outrageous is the way they dealt with our soldiers, people who sworn to defend us and give their lives for you and me if the need arises, got any comment on the treatment of those commandos arrested for Nengher Khel?

name details please - was it as serious as PO

what do you mean by squandering grants any examples

so you do believe in a perfect world - and hmm - I am not there - how self-assured :)


only because you don't want to believe - was the death of Blida in PiS interests - ask yourself questions sometimes - the answers might get interesting

So now we're into who's stealing was more or less serious? Theft is theft, especially for goverment representatives.


Mariusz Kamiński and the misuse of grants from EU during PiS, research that, knowledge earned is better then given.

I have to admit that shipyards were first messed up by SLD but PiS and PO did nothing to adress the situation.


No but neither was arresting her without any solid evidence (the only evidence was a rather shaky testimony by her friend), PiS didnt really think it through but there's a lot they did not plan for.

quote your source - I have no idea what you are talking about
and I am not really willing to search for the info - but I am willing to admit if what I find out seems veritable

there was enough of hints - and there was enough of a threat of working against the inquiry - this for the Blida case

There were no hints, no proof, nothing, the entire case was based on a single testimony extracted by blackmailing her friend who herself was guilty of bogus financial operations.

And you're not ready to admit anything, short of PiS officialls skullfvcking a newborn child before cameras and sodomizing the pope you're just as hardline and unreasonable in your support as hardcore commies back in the old bad days.

that's what I call hints - anyhow an innocent person is not doing such a thing (especially in such circumstances) - the hints must have had some solid background - there are also even more shady explanations possible - like threats to the family if Barbara Blida says anything


well you just don't want to disclose the source I guess - your choice - I count it you don't have any reliable

Doing what? There were no fingerprints on the gun, its kinda strange to shoot yourself without using your hands, or someone cleaned the gun maybe?

ok I don't know if there were fingerprints on the gun - but what are you actually suggesting is ??? and what does it implicate?? let's take these implications further - will you please???

why was the member of ABW (and not CBA as far as I know) or anyone in ABW interested in killing Barbara Blida - please forget your prejudices sometimes - and draw conclusions

what I think you just fail to admit Poladn was horrendously (beyond the imagination of most of our compatriots) corrupt state before PiS came to power (you should remember they had no full power) and that it is falling into that downward spiral yet again - but then again you have to forego or ridicule lots of facts that hint to that

That she was killed, most likely by accident and during the struggle.


The readiness of mr Ziobro and his goon squad to break the law and imprison people for show which brings early communism to mind.


A woman is to be arrested based on very shaky testimony and nothing else, she "kills" herself but there are rumors of a struggle and the gun has no fingerprints of anyone's on it.

Conclusion? Her arrest was botched and during the struggle she was shot and killed, the gun was wiped clean to hide the incriminating evidence, no one had any business killing her but it happened.


Poland was even more corrupt when corrupt PiS came to power, your point being?


Like the fact that Ziobro accused a doctor of being a murderer while the guy was innocent? Or the fact that they killed a woman and hid the evidence? Or that they arrested some of our finest soldiers and attempted to doctor evidence to get a show out of it?

do you know any details about ballistics ?

it is not difficult to examine and state what was the range from which a weapon was used - as far as I can remember it was often mentioned that the shot was direct to the heart from a gun directly pointed to the chest and and touching the chest


sorry - "już nikt nigdy przez tego pana życia pozbawiony nie będzie" - does not definitely mean that he accused the guy of murder - if someone refuses to treat a patient because the patient does not pay the bribe and in the consequence the patient dies is this not - pozbawiony życia przez tego pana ( you sure know there is ambiguity in Polish languaga as for przez tego Pana) - how much do you actually know about the case of Mr G?? if the guy not only accepted but also demanded bribes (even if not always directly - I mean verbatim) then the guy should go to prison - he destroyed himself already - I am not actually insisting on any kind of punishment in cases like this appart from revealing the truth for all to know - I even would still let the guy work as a doctor - he surely can still be of great to many people -it is his deeds we do not accept not the man himself - everyone has the potential to change for the better


sorry but based on what on your personal belief - doesn't count for me

you are somehow religiously anti-Pis - it is not that I say it is bad - it's irrational

Gumi, I agree with Sokrates in post 52. There was a documentary on the Gdańsk shipyards where interviews were conducted and many were gutted at the utter lack of resolve on the part of the Polish government to suitably resolve the issue. It was about the disillusionment of those workers and their consequent relocation to England as a protest at what they perceived as betrayal by their government. One of the officials went to England to try and bring them back and share in their sense of loss and create new hope through investment of his own.

I will look for it, it was on Youtube.

now I don't understand - first you claim that the scandal was Polish troops killing civilians then you state the scandal was doctoring proof against the soldiers involved - could you make up your mind - or did I not understand some point - I seriously advise you to check who was in charge of Military prosecution back then, especially those who went on to press the charges before you pass any judgement - I can see you are very quick to judge - based on your prejudice of course

still waiting for this stealing PiS evidence, other corruption on the side of PiS?

yeah I know taking Giertych and especially Lepper to government was corruption in itself - then actually trying to form a government with a leading PiS role was corruption in itself - simple conclusion - really run your conclusions further than you use to

You're contradicting yourself. Did Jaroslaw K say it or not?

Or was it the other nutty twin, Lech "spieprzaj dziadu" K?

Seanus - my point isn't that PiS is an ideal, the prodigy, the real thing - ever superbly competent - and specifically in this issue they have done all they could - I don't know actually if they have done a damnedest thing - the thing is they wouldn't just simply give in to the European Commission demands and they would argue for that (for example using the German example and now more recent French (and as far as I know Dutch) example) - what I believe is just that PiS were aiming to keep the industry running even if they eventually acted incompetently

PO did not only just give in and give up - they actually went on to rob the thing - which you will have to dig more in Polish to have a smell of


ok no misquote - misplaced quote - and not simplisticly attributable to anything vetala had in mind

I would have said the same - you should watch the footage of it jonni - don't be prejudiced - it helps :)

just one last post for tonight

actually a quote: for those who believe like Sokrates that PiS is evil

Funkcjonariuszka ABW, która była świadkiem samobójstwa Barbary Blidy, jeszcze w tym tygodniu zostanie poddana badaniom na wariografie - dowiedział się nieoficjalnie „Wprost”. Wykrywacz kłamstw ma wyjaśnić, która wersja śmierci byłej minister budownictwa jest prawdziwa.

£ódzka prokuratura, która bada okoliczności śmierci byłej posłanki SLD i minister budownictwa, nie chce komentować tych doniesień. - Na obecnym etapie postępowanie nie udzielamy informacji dotyczących szczegółów planowanych czy też przeprowadzanych czynności - powiedział jej rzecznik Krzysztof Kopania.

Obecnie prokuratura dysponuje dwiema sprzecznymi relacjami z przeszukania domu Blidów. Henryk Blida utrzymuje, że funkcjonariusze dopuścili się karygodnych zaniedbań, które umożliwiły jego żonie popełnienie samobójstwa. Według niego, funkcjonariuszka ABW zostawiła Barbarę Blidę samą w łazience. Z kolei sama funkcjonariuszka utrzymuje, że pilnowała byłą minister przez uchylone drzwi łazienki. Ponieważ konfrontacja obu świadków w prokuraturze nie pozwoliła rozstrzygnąć, kto mówi prawdę, prokuratura chce zastosować wariograf.

– Nie widzę przeszkód, by także mój klient poddał się badaniu na wariografie i w ten sposób udowodnił prawdziwość swojej relacji, choć powinno to mieć miejsce już po przedstawieniu zarzutów funkcjonariuszce ABW – mówi „Wprost" mec. Leszek Piotrowski.

Please translate in order that it follows forum rules.

Seen it a few times. Is this the kind of person who should hold high office?

Ask the workers, Gumishu, they have nothing to gain by lying. Politicians, on the other hand.....

The weapon was shot from close range thats all we know, all other proof was purposefuly removed by ABW and covered up by PiS.


He was not present at the scene.


1. Vital evidence of American involvement was ignored.
2. The fact that the mortar they used was deffective was knowingly omitted.
3. The soldiers were arrested indefinitely with no risk of them fleeing the country for showmaking purposes.
4. The local reconstruction was done in a completely different place.


Could you tell us how they acted? Because from what i know they were busy squandering the funds given us by EU and did not do anything.


Everyone is prejudiced against PiS! Its a conspiracy.


I might be old fashioned but i believe in honor, responsibility and civil courage in politician, PiS just like PO are cowardly thieves, criminals and power hungry liars, there is nothing good about either party whatsoever.

Yes i voted for PO but thats only because its slightly better then PiS on an international arena, thats all there is to it, i hate PO, i hate PiS, LPR, SLD, SDPiL and PSL and i dont hate them "religiously" i hate them because they're a disgrace towards the offices they hold and the nation they should be governing.

The amount of dirt brought up in this topic should have by now convinced anyone that PiS (as well as other major parties) are piles of steaming sh*t yet you try with a delusional determination to justify PiS' criminal activities, lies and examples of utter extreme incompetence.

@Sean i'm going to get back to Piłsudski tomorrow.

Your revealing choice of language clearly shows how disturbed and demented you actually are. Maybe you should stop watching whatever perverted websites you currently troll through!!

he was present at home perhaps not witnessed the shot but claims to know the ABW lady was not in the bathroom with his wife - so probably saw her in the corridor - she claims she was inspecting through the partly open door - it seems reasonable and plausible

and you seek some conspiracies where there most probably aren't
you don't seem to notice conspiracies where they (most) probably are

We know he did not.


From the moment people from ABW wiped the gun handle clean nothing sounds reasonable and plausible in this case.


Thats not conspiracy, its just masking the incompetence of operatives and party officials.

Gumishu you support PiS and i respect that, though i cant see any reason to do so thats your sovereign choice and our fathers died for that choice, that alone compels me to respect any of your choices no matter how unwise but there is no redeeming to PiS just like there is no redeeming to PO, at the time of my vote i believed they're (PO) a lesser of two evils and still do but thats all there is to it.


Gblrgf? Mfgfn blargh blegh blagh!!
:)

jonni - I find this person the best suited in Poland - you don't have to agree - I'd rather have a boorish patriot than a fakely sleek cheater who allows for robbing this country and leads the campaing of brainwashing our youth


man - if the guy suspected his wife was killed in a fight who would go and let everybody know about it - ever heard such cries by him or anybody from his surrounding??? - sometimes drop your axioms and see things from other perspectives


are you naive or live in a different world - does an average worker know how the company is run or the surrounding situation - unless the management makes a sincere effort to inform the workers about the state of the company and current affairs there is often very little knowledge among workers - it doesnt happen too often in this world by the way - but it is the right thing to do - don't you think - as is also the workers having fair share in the incomes of the company


chasing someone into absurdity has to have a solid ground - I never claimed everyone is prejudiced against PiS - but I can clearly see those who are - if someone doesn't notice any good side of PiS it is a very good indication he is

Jest następna teza. Otóż następna teza jest taka, że najprawdopodobniej musiała być szamotanina między panią Barbarą Blidą a funkcjonariuszką ABW i w wyniku tej szamotaniny nastąpił wystrzał. Ta teza ma związek z pierwszą. Chodziło o to, żeby nie wyszło... tak zakładają autorzy tego artykułu, żeby nie wyszło, że agenci ABW wpadli w panikę. W panikę wpadli, po prostu nie wiedzieli, co zrobić w tym momencie. Mieli aresztować panią Barbarę Blidę, tymczasem ona umarła, zginęła. I jeśli to się stało w wyniku szamotaniny, no to logiczną rzeczą jest ewentualnie (przepraszam, ciągle zakładam tylko, jest to hipoteza), że trzeba było ten pistolet wyczyścić. Taka teza wynika... takie wnioski wynikają z tego artykułu.

can you see conspiracy here - these are words of the SLD MP - how do you imagine what caused the possible fight? if the ABW woman saw Blida taking a gun out of a closet what do you think was her reaction??? would you expect it btw - your post factum higher ground teaching doesn't interest me -

my opinion is there could have been some fight when the ABW woman saw Blida with a gun in her hand and tried to stop her - she most probably didn't manage but probably left some fingerprints on the weapon - someone perhaps could have thought it helps to remove any fingertips from the weapon - was it the policewonam herself , somebody of the squad of the day or someone else later we don't know yet

then again I wouldn't surprised that at the end of the day it springs out that this lack of fingertips is thing taken from the ceiling (I mean from the top of one's had) that media most of which have a strong anti-PiS agenda exploited

btw I don't claim Ziobro's or Kaczyński's and their subordinates actions were spotless - there could have been some going past or around the law during that times - but I do approve of this because the goal seems very desirable to me

You should use spell check. Blargh is with two R's.

You'd be surprised just how much they know, Gumi. Those workers kept themselves in the loop and I'd say politically aware too.

The Polish nation can look forward to great things from you; one of Poland's finest :-)))

Because of TV and newspapers

About liking...
Why? Kaczynskis brothers have some magical ability to **** off people who have some disagreement with them. Most of people don't agree with something, one cann't agree with everything. Kaczynskis have an ability to make big issue from literally everything. In the end you don't even remember what was the issue, you just remember that you can't stand the man. It is even worse than that because they are twins. It was their advantage when they were perceived positively because this image added up, but now their mistakes adds up or even multiply :-)

There were opinions that J.Kaczynski was great political strategist. But time proved he wasn't. He was good tactician sometimes but not stategist. His idea of ruling by constant dividing leaded to situation, when one day simple voter was in the right side of Kaczynskis division and the next day the same voter was there where ZOMO were. It was schizophrenic situation. In the end simple voter couldn't be just partial supporter of PIS, the only options left were with PIS or against it. In my opinion as long as J.Kaczynski will be the leader of PIS they have no chance to return to power.

To sum it up, in my memory PIS reign was:
positives:
- opening lawyers corporations for recently graduated by Ziobro
- reducing pension fund tax by Gilowska

negatives:
- very bad PR
- bad strategy
- terrible diplomacy (Fotyga anyone?)
- badly organized re(de)construction of secret services
- too socialists
- too catholic
- appointment of inexperienced man for National Bank chairman
- and I don't even want to start with Andrew and Roman...

So far PO reign is:
positives
- good PR
- better strategy
- better diplomacy
- less socialists
- less catholic
- if I have to choose from the two of them, then Pawlak is better than Lepper
- they've more influnce in EU because they are in big EU wide party. PIS has no meaning there
- good crisis handling
- good handling of infrastructural projects

negatives
- unethical lobbing by some important PO members
- unethical use of power by some PO members
- bad handling of shipyard issue, but I'm one of those who think that they should bankrupt and then reorganize, not the other way around...

I disagree here, Lepper was a harmless idiot, Pawlak is doing some serious damage.

In two areas which I consider important Samoobrona and PSL are equaly effective (unfortunately):
- blocking any serious KRUS reform -> both
- blocking any taxation for farmers -> both

I've pick PSL only because they generate less scandals. But I agree that they are rather damaging force.