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Helena Wolinska dead


Prince  15 | 590  
1 Dec 2008 /  #61
Now they were back alive and thriving after 1945....polish ones at that!URL

I can find communist party in modern France and I believe that with support of much stronger army form outside they would rule France later opportunists would join them or simple normal people to have more meat for dinner is such unefficient system...

Commies form Western Germany:
Rote Armee Fraktion (commies from western Germany)



Rote Armee Fraktion Deutschland R.A.F.



3.500.000 People! Some Marsians...

In later communism if you wanted to work in office you had to sign paper etc... many of memebr of this party weren't supporting this system ...
Bratwurst Boy  8 | 11820  
1 Dec 2008 /  #62
But you won't want to hear from them "THAT'S ALL THE FAULT OF THE HORRIBLE RUSSIANS...WE DID NEVER EVERYTHING WRONG *sniff, sniff*"

Face it Luki, without broad collaboration by the homegrown opportunists and commmies the russians couldn't had done much...they weren't allmighty and far stretched as it was.

So we can call concentration camps after 1945 POLISH concentration camps!

In later communism if you wanted to work in office you had to sign paper etc... many of memebr of this party weren't supporting this system ...

You don't have to tell me that.
Prince  15 | 590  
1 Dec 2008 /  #63
So we can call concentration camps after 1945 POLISH concentration camps!

Where my Polish anti-nazi ancestors were killed after being catched by Soviet NKVD because they were fighting against Nazis they were dangerous for new system ... people able to fight.

Of course Soviet tanks in Hungary were supporting majority of Hungaians ... the same with Soviet army and special forces in Poland ...
Bratwurst Boy  8 | 11820  
1 Dec 2008 /  #64
Where my Polish anti-nazi ancestors were killed after being catched by Soviet NKVD.

They were killed by the soviet NKVD because they were anti-nazi???

Of course Soviet tanks in Hungary were supporting majority of Hungaians ... the same with Soviet army and special forces in Poland ...

Can tanks govern a whole country??? I don't think so....but the countries functioned...now what a mystery!
Prince  15 | 590  
1 Dec 2008 /  #65
They were killed by the soviet NKVD because they were anti-nazi???

Of course yes.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_Army

The Armia Krajowa (the Home Army, literally translated as the Country's Army), abbreviated "AK", was the dominant Polish resistance movement in World War II German-occupied Poland. It was formed in February 1942 from the Związek Walki Zbrojnej (Union for Armed Struggle) and over the next two years absorbed most other Polish underground forces. It was loyal to the Polish government in exile and constituted the armed wing of what became known as the "Polish Underground State". Estimates of its membership in 1944 range from 200,000 to 600,000, with the most common number being 400,000; that figure would make it not only the largest Polish underground resistance movement but among the two largest in Europe during World War II. It was disbanded on January 20, 1945, when Polish territory had largely been cleared of German forces by the advancing Soviet Red Army.

the Soviet Union agencies like the NKVD that took responsibility for disarming the AK.[19] By the end of the war approximately 60,000 soldiers of AK were arrested, 50,000 of them were deported to the Soviet Union's Gulags and prisons; most of those soldiers were captured by Soviets during or in the aftermath of Operation Tempest, when many AK units tried to cooperate with the Soviets in a nationwide uprising against the Germans. Other veterans were arrested when they decided to approach the government officials after being promised amnesty. After several such broken promises during the first few years of communist control, AK soldiers stopped trusting the government

The persecution of AK was only part of the repressions under Stalinism in Poland. In the period of 1944-1956, approximately 2 million people were arrested, over 20,000, including the hero of Auschwitz, Witold Pilecki, were executed or murdered in communist prisons, and 6 million Polish citizens (i.e. every third adult Pole) were classified as a reactionary or criminal element and subject to invigilation by state agencies. In 1956 an amnesty released 35,000 former AK soldiers from prisons: for the crime of fighting for their homeland they had spent sometimes over 10 years in prisons. Even at this time however, some partisans remained in the countryside, unwilling or simply unable to rejoin the community

celinski  31 | 1258  
1 Dec 2008 /  #66
they weren't allmighty and far stretched as it was

What was left of Poland? Life in "Poland" as many know was run by "Communist Soviets" that held the power. When you speak to the "anti communist Poles" that survived you hear of the continued abuse. All one had to do was speak of "Katyn" being a soviet crime and they risked the lives of there families. Food, clothing as with other "God given" life supplies were for communists. Even 10 years ago when more Polish bodies were discovered in Ukraine the Polish knew to whisper behind closed doors vs. being able to speak of the crimes.

They were killed by the soviet NKVD because they were anti-nazi???

Anti Soviet takeover. Remember who killed my family were not Nazi's, it was Soviets.
Bratwurst Boy  8 | 11820  
1 Dec 2008 /  #67
Of course yes.

I don't get it...where is quoted that they were killed because they fighted the Nazis???
Prince  15 | 590  
1 Dec 2008 /  #68
They were people who proved that are able to fight. After the war such people were considered to be dangerous ... imagine yourself that they haven't killed single red army soldier or commie ... they were conisered as dangeorus in case of war agains the west ...
Bratwurst Boy  8 | 11820  
1 Dec 2008 /  #69
So they were murdered because the Soviets percieved them as a potential danger to the occupation and NOT because they were anti-nazi, correct?
Prince  15 | 590  
1 Dec 2008 /  #70
The problem is that mostly anti-nazis were percieved as potential danger to the occupation. AK soldeirs were frist aim, and fact that somebody fouht nazis in different than communist organisation was like sentence ...
Bratwurst Boy  8 | 11820  
1 Dec 2008 /  #71
The problem is that mostly anti-nazis were percieved as potential danger to the occupation. AK soldeirs were frist aim.

Well, the occupants themselves were mostly anti-nazi...
Prince  15 | 590  
1 Dec 2008 /  #72
Yes, but they considered Poland as conquered land - warrior is warrior, Poland was vey anti-nazi but it wasn't commie that is why most victimes of the system were Polish anti-nazis.
Grzegorz_  51 | 6138  
1 Dec 2008 /  #73
I would say, since 1956 you were mostly on your own...

It depends what you mean. Yes, after 56 there wasn't a direct Soviet controll but obviously Poland had to be a "People's Republic", undemocratic, uncapitalistic etc. And once there's a dictatorship, there must be various crimes and when there's opportunity, there are always and everywhere many people willing to commit them. So obviously blaming foreigners for individual communistic crimes (except those in 44-56) in Poland would be stupid but the whole system existed only because It was imposed from outside and was kicked out at first opportunity.

What led to what? Perestroika to Solidarnosc or Solidarnosc to Perestroika?

No sure what you mean but Solidarity was one of many things contributing to the fall of Soviet Union (and so the communism) and Perestroika was a failed attempt to stop that process.
z_darius  14 | 3960  
1 Dec 2008 /  #74
What led to what? Perestroika to Solidarnosc or Solidarnosc to Perestroika?

- Solidarity was founded in September 1980
- Perestroyka is the Russian term (now used in English) for the economic reforms introduced in June 1987
- Berlin Wall - 1989, well, this is where Germans lacked their courage and waited for others to clear the way. Before that East Germans would sshit in their pants when around anything that had to do with Solidarity movement.
Bratwurst Boy  8 | 11820  
1 Dec 2008 /  #75
Berlin Wall - 1989, well, this is where Germans lacked their courage and waited for others to clear the way. Before that East Germans would sshit in their pants when around anything that had to do with Solidarity movement.

???

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uprising_of_1953_in_East_Germany
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monday_demonstrations_in_East_Germany

It could have ended in a disaster, that it didn't had not so much something to do with Poland but with a Gorbatschow who saw the futility of a russian action, so the Stasi was doomed.
lesser  4 | 1311  
1 Dec 2008 /  #76
Soviet system bankrupted, thus the SU collapsed. While perestroika itself was a mystification intended to cheat the west, read "Abrechnung mit Moskau. Das sowjetische Unrechtsregime und die Schuld des Westens. " by Vlad Bukovsky.
celinski  31 | 1258  
1 Dec 2008 /  #77
Polish anti-nazis.

It all depends on where/when you are looking at here is a BBC news release about Lwow and what the Nazi's troops saw when they went in. Mind you this shows what Polish were dealing with in Eastern Poland prior to Nazi's attack. As you will see strong "Anti-Soviet" by Polish. What was not seen yet was the condition of the ones that survived "Siberia" or "Katyn".

bbc.co.uk/archive/ussr/dr6715_1.shtml?docall=2&doc=6715
z_darius  14 | 3960  
1 Dec 2008 /  #78
???

just a preemptive post ;)
Bratwurst Boy  8 | 11820  
1 Dec 2008 /  #79
bbc.co.uk/archive/ussr/dr6715_1.shtml?docall=2&doc=6715

Interesting archive, thanks Cel!
Prince  15 | 590  
1 Dec 2008 /  #80
I'm talking about post WWII times (after 1945) Your father was from eastern Poland so Soviets were there in 1939...

I am talking about times after Yalta

My ancestors were fighting whole war against Germans and at the end were persecuted for that by Soviet NKVD.

And pease stop pretending to be Polish if you live in USA and even can't speak Polish.
Grzegorz_  51 | 6138  
1 Dec 2008 /  #81
And pease stop pretending to be Polish if you live in USA and even can't speak Polish.

Leave her alone. Thanks.
Prince  15 | 590  
1 Dec 2008 /  #82
:) Why you are to tell my what should I do ? :)

Stick to your suboridates. Thanks! :)
celinski  31 | 1258  
2 Dec 2008 /  #83
Leave her alone. Thanks.

Thank you.

And pease stop pretending to be Polish if you live in USA and even can't speak Polish.

Prince,

Do you go to the graves in "Monte Cassino" and deny the Polish deceased to be Polish? They are no longer on Polish soil and do not speak. Yet they fought beside my family and I consider them just as Polish as you or I. It is fine if you do not want to view me as being Polish.

As for my Grandfather, he was one of Poland's hero that fought to regain Poland's freedom on the front line in 1918. This is not your right. After Nazi's attacked Soviets and amnesty was granted my family once more fought and died for Poland. In the end, we lost our country to Soviet takeover.

[quote=Prince]My ancestors were fighting whole war against Germans and at the end were persecuted for that by Soviet NKVD.

My family were living in the east and felt the wrath of Soviets. Being Osadnik's (see, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osadnik)was all that was needed. Poland was not just attacked by Nazi's. Soviets wanted 1/2 of Poland and this was where our fight started.
Harry  
2 Dec 2008 /  #84
Do you go to the graves in "Monte Cassino" and deny the Polish deceased to be Polish? They are no longer on Polish soil and do not speak. Yet

They were Polish. You are not Polish and have never been Polish. You weren't born in Poland, you do not speak Polish and you have never lived in Poland. You don't even have a Polish passport (and it's not as if a person needs to have ever set foot in Poland in order to get a Polish passport).

You are as Ukrainian/Belorussian as you are Polish.
celinski  31 | 1258  
2 Dec 2008 /  #85
You know this? Poland Goverment tells me I am a Polish citizen. My fathers birth took place in Eastern Poland, both parents Polish.
Harry  
3 Dec 2008 /  #86
So where's your Polish passport Carol? If you're a Polish citizen, where's your passport?

Could it be that you don't have a Polish passport because you would need to give up your American passport if you got a Polish passport? I very much think that is the case. Which means that you are not Polish and you choose not to be Polish. You are American and you choose that nationality.
celinski  31 | 1258  
3 Dec 2008 /  #87
Which means

Harry Harry Harry, must I teach you everything. Do you understand the usage of "dual citizenship"?
Harry  
3 Dec 2008 /  #88
No need thanks. Unlike you, I already have dual nationality.

However, unlike you, I have nationality from nations which accept dual nationality. You are from the USA and USAians are not permitted to apply for foreign citizenship unless they are willing to lose their US passport. You would need to apply for confirmation of citizenship from the Polish consulate and as you do this yourself, you will lose your US passport.

But I am sure that you know this already and it is the reason that you have not applied for a Polish passport. Face facts Carol: you are not Polish, you are American.
celinski  31 | 1258  
3 Dec 2008 /  #89
But I am sure that you know this already and it is the reason that you have not applied for a Polish passport. Face facts Carol: you are not Polish, you are American.

Sorry but I am both. Up until 1951 Polish did not loose citizenship from Poland and I in fact recieved Polish upon birth as well as US.
Harry  
3 Dec 2008 /  #90
So where is your Polish passport Carol?

You need to contact the US embassy in Warsaw. They'll clue you in about what happens to your US passport if you apply for a Polish one.

Funny how you claim to be Polish but do not have a Polish passport and do have a passport from another nation.

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