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Gazeta Wyborcza: US Backing Off Polish Missile Bases


joepilsudski 26 | 1,389  
30 Aug 2009 /  #1
Although this story was reportedly published in Gazeta Wyborcza(August 25 2009), the search engine at the site wouldn't work properly...Here is a site where I accessed it 'second-hand' :

defensenews.com/story.php?i=4253068

The story also appeared on the IsraeliDEBKA site...Basically, the gist of the story is that the US is backing off of trying to put missiles in Poland, with the alternative being Turkey and Israel...The reasoning behind this is the Russians strongly object, and that Poles have refused a compromise that would allow Russian observers to be permanently stationed at the sites...I have always thought the idea was dangerous and senseless in the first place...One must consider these developments in the context of the overall push for control of Central Asian oil and gas resources, by the US/Rothschild/Israeli alliance and the opposition of Russia to this...Gazeta Wyborcza is run by Adam Michnik (nee: Shzechter) and is considered a leading 'liberal' Polish paper...Comments?
caprice49 4 | 224  
2 Sep 2009 /  #2
the US is backing off of trying to put missiles in Poland,

History repeating itself?
wzgrza - | 46  
3 Sep 2009 /  #3
Good, I did not want this shield in Poland to start with.

Secondly, this is just another indication of currently stressed political ties with the U.S.

The new Obama administration changing their mind on placing the missle shield in Poland is a slap to our government, who was for a long time striving with the Bush administration to have the shield stationed there.

This goes along with Obamas current stance on trying to fix U.S - Russian relations.

Even on the ceremony yesterday, for the start of WWII, the Obama administration sent retired general Joe Shmoe, with his limo driver to represent the U.S. delegation there. Laughable... especially to commerorate the start of a conflict in which the U.S so proudly portrays itself as the saviour of Europe in all of its Hollywood blockbusters... the latest being "Inglorious bastards".

I have thought for long that Poland needs to re-assess, who are the real allies they can count on, and trying to work on that. The U.S does not care about Poland.

Not even going to mention the VISAs..
rychlik 41 | 373  
3 Sep 2009 /  #4
Just wanna point out that this is a rumour. Nothing has been confirmed. But yes, it probably it won't happen.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
3 Sep 2009 /  #5
I'm glad Poland refused the compromise. Talk of missiles based in Kalingrad, although idle threats perhaps, does not augur well for future bilateral relations. Both Russia and America are capable of stabbing Poland in the back so best not appear too pally with either. NATO is Poland's 'guarantee', that's enough involvement. It was based on fraudulent principles anyway. That cow Condo Rice is so insincere. She is a low-life bit*h.
rychlik 41 | 373  
4 Sep 2009 /  #6
Hmmmmmm: the Georgia conflict happened about a year ago. Poland immediately agreed to host the missiles. Russia got hostile. Bush left and Obama came in. Now about a year later the Yankee's seem to be backing out on this missile business. Is it possible that Poland agreed to this just to pis's off the Russians and say "we can do what we like" knowing all along that this was a bogus deal? Is this all one big game???
plk123 8 | 4,150  
4 Sep 2009 /  #7
poland needs to quit being usa's lap dog.
Ironside 50 | 10,935  
4 Sep 2009 /  #8
Good!
Poland have no interest in hosting some American missals.

poland needs to quit being usa's lap dog.

Poland need government working in the interest of Poland.
and your comment is useless.
wzgrza - | 46  
4 Sep 2009 /  #9
Poland need government working in the interest of Poland.

This is true, and brown nosing the U.S all the time gives Poland fck-all.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
4 Sep 2009 /  #10
The key is, what is in the Polish interest? Tusk is seen as a wavering figure, not quite sure what direction to take. Lech Kaczyński, although a bumptious git, is sure of himself. Winning brownie points has never been his style and well done to him for that.

The missile shield was a show of naivety on Tusk's part. Kaczyński, to his credit, sought to extract concessions and prolong the discussions. He knew that there was no imminent threat and played the game.
Ironside 50 | 10,935  
4 Sep 2009 /  #11
In Poland interest is to bulid strong economy and independent military force - in long term.
short term, not to play military games of the USA without due compensation, either in money or stout political support from USA.
The reason is simple there nothing for Poland to gain and cost and expenses are too much for weak Polish economy.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
4 Sep 2009 /  #12
Well, the economy has been moving along quite nicely. Poland has learned a lot from the mishaps of the Balcerowicz era of hyperinflation and far-fetched notions of economic stimulus packages.

To you and many others it is simple but sacrificing economic gains at the expense of keeping 'onside' with the US seemed to be a worthwhile endeavour.
wzgrza - | 46  
4 Sep 2009 /  #13
These are reasons I like Kaczynski... for what we have to choose from.

Tusk I think would sell out Poland to the Germans or Russians in a New York minute. Not to be trusted, and it worries me having him in such a powerful position.
Ironside 50 | 10,935  
4 Sep 2009 /  #14
Well, the economy has been moving along quite nicely. Poland has learned a lot from the mishaps of the Balcerowicz era of hyperinflation and far-fetched notions of economic stimulus packages.

Don't think so , if the economy is in so good state, where are thousands immigrants from other country's?
Why Poles are forced to work and live in the foreign lands?

To support USA in the early stage of "the war on taxpayers purse" had some candor but Polish so called "elite" were unable to secure any and I mean ANY incentives for Poland.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
4 Sep 2009 /  #15
Tusk is a sellout merchant. He is in a constant auction, looking for sb to raise the price.

Simply because Poles do well abroad, living with many other roommates and getting 5000PLN for a 1000 pounds a month job. Plus, the thrill of being abroad and setting yourself up. Don't forget that many Poles came back and couldn't slot in. When you move abroad, that happens, trust me.

The economy doesn't have to be good for everybody, a golden fact to keep in mind, Ironside. Forced???? What do you mean, is there a gun being pointed at their heads?

Poland feels that it needs the US onboard to bolster their security.
Ironside 50 | 10,935  
4 Sep 2009 /  #16
Tusk is a sellout merchant. He is in a constant auction, looking for sb to raise the price.

Well, don't tell me, but he is only face, there plenty of others behind him...

The economy doesn't have to be good for everbody, a golden fact to keep in mind, Ironside. Forced???? What do you mean, is there a gun being pointed at their heads?

I'm well aware of it!
But if its not good for majority it means that economy is not good and country is banana republic if anything.
Forced - economical equation, nobody wants to work for peanuts without perspective all live.
Poland feels? explain please !

Remind me, are you Scottish ?
wzgrza - | 46  
4 Sep 2009 /  #17
Well said. How can they keep trying to fight other peoples wars, when they can't even fight their own at the moment.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
5 Sep 2009 /  #18
Of course, Tusk doesn't solely pull the strings. Be happy that business concerns aren't as vociferous as in America.

The Polish economy may well be good for Poles but they perceive the economies in Britain to be better. For them, it's a matter of perception and not of economic fact.

Sorry, they may be slightly better off but most Poles seem happy to be in their motherland. I don't understand this glorifying and worshipping of Polish territory, only to revert to moaning/griping when here. Can you shed some light on that? Poles spend the whole time slagging off foreign food and things but bicker constantly about their fatherland. Odd!!!

The Tusk govt wanted to stay in bed with the Americans. Business is business and they felt that the concerns of modernisation were best served by allying themselves with those that could bring about real and meaningful change, i.e the Americans. After all, they are NATO's foremost power.

I am Scottish, yes. Why did you ask, ma man?
wzgrza - | 46  
5 Sep 2009 /  #19
Why they bicker is this : Because most Poles, regardless of what they say, deep down inside all have a love for their country, and are proud of it. But at the same time they are pissed that it is so ****** up, that they have to migrate to different lands, in order to have normal, economically stable lives. So therefore they swear at it. It is an interesting paradox, and that is what I have come up with.
Ironside 50 | 10,935  
5 Sep 2009 /  #20
Sorry, they may be slightly better off but most Poles seem happy to be in their motherland. I don't understand this glorifying and worshipping of Polish territory, only to revert to moaning/griping when here. Can you shed some light on that? Poles spend the whole time slagging off foreign food and things but bicker constantly about their fatherland. Odd!!!

Well, if you have education and are working hard and you are law and moral code obeying citizen - you expect to have a fruits of your labor.

In Poland bastards and scumbags seems to be having upper hand, not only that our model citizen protected in any normal country is laughed at as an idiot and tread like **** by bureaucracy, government and scumbags.

Average citizen is not making descent living !
As you live in Poland you should know what I mean.

Of course, Tusk doesn't solely pull the strings. Be happy that business concerns aren't as vociferous as in America.

lucky us :)

The Polish economy may well be good for Poles but they perceive the economies in Britain to be better. For them, it's a matter of perception and not of economic fact.

Well, I don't know I gather that is not only matter of the perspective.

The Tusk govt wanted to stay in bed with the Americans. Business is business and they felt that the concerns of modernisation were best served by allying themselves with those that could bring about real and meaningful change, i.e the Americans. After all, they are NATO's foremost power.

Well, I doubt is all about modernization I rather that is about their personal "modernization":)

I am Scottish, yes. Why did you ask, ma man?

I'm Surprised, that you have a good orientation in Polish matters:)
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
5 Sep 2009 /  #21
I agree with your first point. Bast*rds rule the roost and this is true in Scotland too. They selfishly pursue their agendas. I need GUS to tell me what they perceive as the facts as Poles have vastly differing accounts of 'the average life'.

I think Tusk followed through on Kwaśniewski's logic of NATO being a security valve for Poland. It was a club arrangement and Tusk jumped in quickly.

I take an interest in Polish affairs but many board members greatly surpass my knowledge, given their background. That much is evident.
rychlik 41 | 373  
5 Sep 2009 /  #22
Don't think so , if the economy is in so good state, where are thousands immigrants from other country's?
Why Poles are forced to work and live in the foreign lands?

Look at it differently: Poland's economy is quite comofortable and the country's not in a recession- while there are a few thousand Polish workers abroad!!! What does this tell you? That Poland has a surplus of skilled workers. Smart, motivated, skilled workers don't need to emigrate. Poland is still lucky they don't have to import Indians or Chinese people to work for them :)
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,630  
5 Sep 2009 /  #23
Tusk I think would sell out Poland to the Germans or Russians in a New York minute. Not to be trusted,

How so???
wzgrza - | 46  
5 Sep 2009 /  #24
He just gives me that feeling and impression. Not those countries in particular, but anybody.. he just seems like a pushover when it comes to intl. matters.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,630  
5 Sep 2009 /  #25
No...what I meant was I would like to know what you mean with "selling out"?
For example the Kaczinsky's did everything to brown nose Washington for years...for nothing in the end actually.

How would a Tusk "sell out" look like?
scrappleton - | 830  
5 Sep 2009 /  #26
Kaczinsky's did everything to brown nose Washington for years...for nothing in the end actually.

It's premature to say it was all for "nothing". You expect some quick quid pro quo in international relations? This would be strange as the US sure as hell did not receive that kind of quick turn around on investment from Germany some years back and still have to PAY just to have goddamn bases on the soil. Probaby these bases kept your continent from tearing each other's faces off long enough to form the EU in the first place. Maybe that's one thing the US has indirectly done for Poland. The arms race which more or less bankrupted the Soviets is another.

Also, the US didn't exactly ask for compensation when it sent 20,000 into Bosnia (a worse war than Iraq or Afghanistan).

Poles want compensation for the 2500 troops given to us.. they only need to ask. I have not heard any demands from their side.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,630  
5 Sep 2009 /  #27
I think they expected some preferred treatment...some kind of a special relationship if not deals and other rewards.
Poland got alot of flak from "'old" Europe for being so steadfastly pro-Bush.
Now they didn't even get the visa waiver not to speak of more real deals...and were outrightly snubbed at the WWII ceremony.

I would be pissed!
scrappleton - | 830  
5 Sep 2009 /  #28
think they expected some preferred treatment...some kind of a special relationship if not deals and other rewards.

For 2500 people?? You guys call us stupid all the time? NATO is not a coin operated machine you know. Like I said, let them name their price for services rendered. It's been mostly us, Canadians and the British in the hot zones anyway.

Poland got alot of flak from 'old Europe for being so steadfastly pro-Bush.

"Old Europe" is lucky it even exists today.. and there will always be no shortage of "flak" coming from it. Old Europe has a problem with Muslims murdering their citizens.. maybe they should throw some f.ucking flak at that.

I would be pissed!

Yeah well, there's a surprise.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649  
5 Sep 2009 /  #29
I agree that Poland should make friends with immediate neighbors like Russia. The missile project is just delayed until after they resolve differences. The missile base wasn't proposed because of the Russians, anyway.

Poland is not the US's lapdog. Whoever is saying that is clearly clueless about international politics.
Obama adminstration is dodging the limelight, letting the Russians have all the attention, because it's true, they did more fighting in WWII and had more casualties so why shouldn't they take center stage?

People are turning this into a big drama but it's isn't.
plk123 8 | 4,150  
5 Sep 2009 /  #30
Poland need government working in the interest of Poland.
and your comment is useless.

you just convinced me that you;re a total dolt.. now go fook yourself and quit repeating what i say, especially if you think my comments aren't any good. arsehole

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