Darwins theory of Evolution in Polish schools

The SIMPLEST PROOF is the fossil record. We have descended from apelike bipedal hominids millions of years ago. Do you have any other explanation for this? If so and it holds up in a peer reviewed journal, you will not only win the Nobel Prize but will have overturned Darwin and all subsequent evolutionary biological advances.

It is not, the place for Government, to teach Religion.
And only Stupid people would think that nothing can change.
Okay, can't God make use and everything on earth to fight and change to an always changing environment. Darwin seen Gods work at hand, but only the Stupid Religious can't see it, because a rewritten, changed, evil book says nothing about it. There over a 100 different Bibles out there(a that is only in English?)

I know most of your are think I am a socialist, NO!!! Libertarian.
I see the church as a dictatorship, there are no freedoms found there.

Im a Pole living in Gdansk (northern Poland) and i just found your forum while being extremely bored and searching the net for some funny opinions other countries have about mine. Yet what you're discussing here is sadly true to the bone and actually worse than you may think.

The Polish minister of education, Roman Giertych, is a leader of one of the most powerful political parties in Poland, LPR (Liga Polskich Rodzin - translated as League of Polish Families) and also a religious fanatic as are all in his party. He "joined forces" with Father Director Tadeusz Rydzyk, the boss of Polish biggest and most corrupted Religious radiostation and together they are shoving Poland back to the Dark Ages, knowingly or not, i dont care as long as its happening. Moreover, the President and the Prime Minister (who are twin brothers) are homophobes and always support Giertych's ideas.

The issue with Darwins Theory of Evolution is not the only one, although it made quite an inpact on me, as im a biology student at the University of Gdansk, so you can imagine my bewilderment. They are also trying to ban events like Woodstock (which i dont like personally, but it doesnt cause any harm so let it be) Wileka Orkiestra Swiątecznej Pomocy (charity event, the arguments are that the organiser is a pedophile and he invites satanic bands to play in his event *mocking chuckle*), and also, haha, the TV show Teletubbies because they think its promoting homosexuality (Tinky Winky issue).

These are just a few of the immature and completely insane actions our government is taking each day making it a laughing stock among the more intelligent part of society.

Well i think said enough if anyone has any questions i'll be happy to answer, provided im around this forum in the near future.

take care ^^

I don`t think LPR is most powerful. LOOL. In two years they`ll be all gone. Trust me.

I think your Copernicus had the same problem...
Not publishing his findings until near the end of his life, scared of being destroyed by the church ..

Darwin's theory isn't sure, It's only one of theories.

genesis is 'only a story' (theory if you want to be leniant)

I sure hope so, and therefore support your words. BTW, i said one of the most powerful not THE most powerful :P


Actually Darwin's theory had a lot of mistakes but it led to a new point of veiw. Right now the theory is constantly modified by reaserch results, yet, what has been proven already, it is generally true.

I watched the Discovery about Toumai last night. Interesting stuff. They're dating this skull back 4 million years. Wasn't adam and eve "created" 4004 BC (accurate?)? What's the churches answer to stuff like this?

That was actually the date,Oktober 4004 BC,that a famous theologist calculated that Creation took place.He made this estimation in the 18th cetury and church accepted it.

In 19th century the catholic church repeated the same mistake by rejecting Darwin's theory.By interpreting holy books as containing information about physical laws,catholic church puts religious belief under control of observation and experiment as it happens with science,that is it expresses hypothses which can or cannot be proven(unlike the God hypothesis) and so after science rejects what church accepted as true,people start to doubt the truth of religion in general.It is a great mistake of catholic church,it is surprising how such intelligent people as those in catholic church made such a mistake.

And it is very difficult to change direction because according to catholic church the Pope is always right.
So whatever he says is true a priori.This means that if the current Pope accepts evolution theory,the catholic church will face a serious contradiction and a doubt of the principle that what the Pope says is always true.Because in this case there will be two Popes saying the opposite(a lot of work for catholic theologues).

Can't we have religious morality and teaching of evolution? I think most sane people know that the Great Flood didn't happen and that their a lot of holes in the Bible. It's not a literal interpretation, it's only used to reinforce moral structure.

just another story/fairy tale.

But that's exactly what is being thought for years here in Poland.

Just for clarification, if you don’t mind: To what extent do people want evolution to be taught (or not taught) in schools?
From the first post in this thread, it seems like they are not taking evolution out of any curriculum, but they are basically admitting that they don’t have all the answers. How life on earth began cannot be proven scientifically with any theory (because it is not a re-occurring event that can be examined), so, why should there be a problem with presenting both arguments in the debate?

you have got to be joking!!!! This is a children's program in England, watched by mums & toddlers. I am seriously worried for you guys if your government seems to think this appropriate. What planet are they on???


I agree, the bible & evolution go hand in hand. They parallel each other if you think about it you can realte a lot of the bible to the evolution theory. At the end of the day the bible is only handed down stories ( excuse the blasphemy)

hi dears
i was so interested in this subject and i researched in many books and articles who their writers were specilaist in theology or sience
and not just in christianity but in all i religons that i acessed
i think that we had a instant reaction against darvin theory like other theories that has been expressed before and didnt think about it really an d although think that it is a lack from our church

now i wanna tell u about sth that i found and really not know that it is true or not but it seems so likely

i found in an article of an muslim theorist that is famous becoz og his open_minde
(and is nessasery to say that muslem is agree in the way of creating of man with us)and he says that it is not against the bible or quran ,he says that quran called the man in different ways some times man or in their language (ensan)that means civilization man and some times (bashar)that is the prmiery man

and says according to quran when god wanted to create man angels said that do u want to create the man (bashar)taht kill and corrept on the earth,it shows that before us sbs lived on the earth that looked like us

but the differnce between us and them is that god give us apart of his soul and either determination
and also he claimed that the two girls that had been broght for adam's sons were of that race becoz n quran marriage with sister is a big sin and they couldnt marry with their sisters

i think it seems true but wanna know ur idea so please tell me

Don't look for anti-Darwinism in Poland. In case of Christianity It'a a Protestant thing. The Pope accepted theory of evolution, so even most of fundamentalistic Catholics don't mind It.

what do umean? u mean all the polish people accepted it so why do u discuss it?

It's not just Darwin. What about James Hutton and his theory of uniformitarianism?
And every decent geologist worth their halite since then.
It's not as if it is difficult to believe in both Christianity (or for that matter, most religions) and evolution at the same time.

There is more of a problem with reductionism - both by scientists and religious types.
The world is not simple - both science and religion teach us that.

No all but vast majority.

i know i think in other countries its as the same but i didnt want to advice u to accept it
i just tried to say religion is not against sience ,even sience proves the accuracy of religion . most of the the thories like gravity or the shape of the earth that were discovered bye christian scientists were accepted by muslim peolpe,ages before because they were announced in their book(quran)

Darwinism was accepted by the official teaching of the Catholic Church, so even most of very conservative people here don't reject Darwinism. It's rather a thing of Protestant fundamentalists in USA.

In Roman CAtholicism, the pope is God's direct representative on Earth. Therefore, what the Pope says is true and it is God's will. Simple as that. To oppose it is to oppose God himself (herself?) Of course, overzealous Catholics have their own say in the matter and are thus blasphemous :)

Now, straight from the horse's (oh forgive me Father!) mouth:

New knowledge has led to the recognition that the theory of evolution is more than a hypothesis. It is indeed remarkable that this theory has been progressively accepted by researchers, following a series of discoveries in various fields of knowledge. The convergence, neither sought nor fabricated, of the results of work that was conducted independently is in itself a significant argument in favor of the theory.John Paul II

That doesn't mean, howver, that all is lost, as the Vatican's position has been that the Theory of Evolution, while the best theory a man can buy today, is not the end of it all, and should be taught while maintainging respect for the dignity of the human being (whatever that means). So God is still at the root of Everything, but evolution is not just some lie.

Moreover, the Vatican supports the teaching of the Theory of Evolution, so it is taught in most influential Catholic schools (for instance The Jesuit University in NYC, NY, aka Fordham University). It is also taught in the Vatican University. The Vatican's poisition is that TE is science, unlike "intelligent design".

According to L’Osservatore Romano:

[intelligent design] isn’t how science is done,” he wrote. “If the model proposed by Darwin is deemed insufficient, one should look for another, but it’s not correct from a methodological point of view to take oneself away from the scientific field pretending to do science.

That was just another statement in support of the likes of The article echoed similar arguments by the Vatican’s chief astronomer, the Rev. George Coyne, who said “intelligent design” wasn’t science and had no place in school classrooms.

Now, the question is, who the f**ck is Poland's deputy minister of education to oppose the Pope and his "generals". Yet again, someone decides to be "holier than though"

I agree with this. Science is a work in progress, and it always will be, while religion has many areas I don't think people will ever understand, thus they believe. People are trying to "understand" God with a human mind and in terms of what humans know (experience), while God is beyond that. Just try to imagine the world or life without time. And there is no time in eternity. It is really hard to really grasp that simple concept. To us, there was yesterday and there will be tomorrow. We count the seconds, there are no seconds to count in eternity. Imagine you are in a situation that does not change ever, you cannot change your mind, you're stuck in "now." Hopefully, it's a comfortable position you get stuck in or else it sounds horrid.

It is interesting how religion and science always confront each other. To me science constantly works on proving the existence of a "Higher Power" even though some scientists would like to prove just the opposite.

It is interesting to see the painting of Creation by Michael Angelo on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel in Rome. Based on that it seems reasonable to view the creation as the moment when God gave humans immortal soul. Adam looks very much like a fully developed contemporary man, so the theory of evolution would perfectly fit that scenario.

Angelo

By the way, I have never heard that Adam and Eve lived 4004 years BC :-))

darwins trheory is good - but it doesnt make sense when you look at humans as humans not material animals.. remember ther eis such a thing as a soul - how has that evolved.. humans and animals are different... there has been soem useful research doen, i know its a religious website however i came across it on my visit to turkey where we had a few disussinons.. worth checking out.. aslo on youtube, there is a debate between a chritian guy and the guy who wrote the myth of god.. hyahya.org

Of couse it is.


Our brain is much more bigger in proportion to our height, compared to animals. That makes a big difference. We evolved a lot more than them. We began to think, to wonder...

I find the evolution of the human race so interesting :) Proud to be a human, LoL.

(Evolutionist or Creationist...)

:)

Humans are very much material. Pinch yourself.


Now pinch your soul.

You are making claims based on some a priori but unproven postulates which are based on religion in the first place.

Also, if animlas do not have a soul but humans do then it would follow that it is possible to isolate soul and show how it is present in some creatures but not in others. Thus soul would have to be a physical and measurable phenomenon. Is it?

So no, we don't know if there is such a thing as a soul in the religious meaning because we don't know that god (the basis for religion) even exists. Some only believe so.

Regardless of which theory, or possibly both or neither, both should still be taught as both are wide spread beliefs.

Personally my belief is there is no God and that "God" was thought up by man as some sort of solace to the knowledge that once we die we bite the dust. But that is just my belief, I can not say "there is no god" because I personally do NOT know if there is or not. Same for any other human... you can believe but you do NOT know for certain.

For those like myself who are not in the circle I feel we need to respect people inside the circle, and the same for believers, respect that not everyone else has the beliefs you do.