Return PolishForums LIVE
  PolishForums Archive :
Archives - 2005-2009 / Life  % width 34

Poland peasant or noble tradition?


Clara 1 | 17  
6 Oct 2008 /  #1
Two mainstream traditions in Poland.
Which one dominates Poland ? I am moving back to my country and I'm extremely interested about this aspects. From the one hand Poland has Jazz from the other hand Polish national dish is bigos and pierogi. Polish cusine is very rich but I can't find on this forum nothing about some delicious dishes Poland has, only bigos and pierogi.

What is your opinion about Polish mentality and dominant traditions?
miranda  
6 Oct 2008 /  #2
Two mainstream traditions in Poland.

peasant and noble? Where did you get this info Clara? I am not sure what you are attempting to ask here. There is hardly any noble tradition in Poland to my knowledge but that might be due to the fact that I come from a peasant family and have been listening to jazz from an early age..

Polish cusine is very rich but I can't find on this forum nothing about some delicious dishes Poland has, only bigos and pierogi.

I think that somebody actually mentioned golabki as well.
Del boy 20 | 254  
6 Oct 2008 /  #3
From the one hand Poland has Jazz from the other hand Polish national dish is bigos and pierogi.

From the one hand England have Oxford and Cambridge from the other hand English national dish is... fish and chips

From the one hand Ireland have James Joyce, Oscar Wilde, George Bernard Shaw from the other hand Irish national dish is a stew

From the one hand Germany have great philosophers from the other hand German national dishes are BMW and Mercedes :)
whats your point?
miranda  
6 Oct 2008 /  #4
whats your point?

I think that Clara is trying to get a picture of Poland before moving back.

Noble Polish tradition: a fairly fancy restaurant in Toronto. Polish group walks in, stands around having fancy drinks and after an hour asks for bread. That's it. They have fancy drinks and bread dipped in olive oil/balsamic vinegar.
Del boy 20 | 254  
6 Oct 2008 /  #5
Polish group walks in, stands around having fancy drinks and after an hour asks for bread. That's it. They have fancy drinks and bread dipped in olive oil/balsamic vinegar.

why such behavior? nostalgy?
i imagine myself hanging glass of wine and topping golabki with it just to feel Polish
miranda  
6 Oct 2008 /  #6
why such behavior? nostalgy?

I suspect that they didn't want to spend money on appetizers, or the kitchen was closed.
OP Clara 1 | 17  
6 Oct 2008 /  #7
peasant and noble? Where did you get this info Clara? I am not sure what you are attempting to ask here. There is hardly any noble tradition in Poland to my knowledge but that might be due to the fact that I come from a peasant family and have been listening to jazz from an early age..

I was talking about behaviour not your roots, noble and peasant was what I had in my head after posts about bigos and pierogis. You know peasant behaviour. Maybe this place is for Polish peasants and British peasants and I have wrong impresion. You know why so many Polish immigrants avoid unleavened green point in NY. I am thinking about current situation in Poland. Is Poland like Greenpoint or like Polish jazz.
Del boy 20 | 254  
6 Oct 2008 /  #8
Maybe this place is for Polish peasants and British peasants

wtf?
miranda  
6 Oct 2008 /  #9
You know why so many Polish immigrants avoid unleavened green point in NY.

I have never been to Greenpoint but I have heard about it. I though you were in Canada.
Poland would be much nicer, but it also depends who you going to spend time with.

If you are moving to a big city, you will have jazz there, if you are moving to a small town, then I would worry if I were you.
OP Clara 1 | 17  
6 Oct 2008 /  #10
Now I am living in Canada.

If you are moving to a big city, you will have jazz there, if you are moving to a small town, then I would worry if I were you.

Thank you it is like everywhere ;)
southern 75 | 7,096  
6 Oct 2008 /  #11
Two mainstream traditions in Poland.
Which one dominates Poland ?

Peasant is in rural areas,noble is in urban areas.
For example does farm mentality rule in New York?
OP Clara 1 | 17  
6 Oct 2008 /  #12
For example does farm mentality rule in New York?

It used to be little £omża it has changed but it was very characterstic part of NY.
loco polaco 3 | 352  
6 Oct 2008 /  #13
Polish cusine is very rich but I can't find on this forum nothing about some delicious dishes Poland has, only bigos and pierogi.

search? because there is a buttload of info on a variety of polish foods.

Noble Polish tradition: a fairly fancy restaurant in Toronto. Polish group walks in, stands around having fancy drinks and after an hour asks for bread. That's it. They have fancy drinks and bread dipped in olive oil/balsamic vinegar.

lol.. that's called being cheap. :D
David_18 68 | 982  
6 Oct 2008 /  #14
@Topic

It all depends on where in Poland you would stay.
osiol 55 | 3,922  
6 Oct 2008 /  #15
It used to be little £omża

Istanbul, not Constantinopole, revised lyrics:

Even old New York was once Little £omża
Why they changed it, I can't say
Nobles liked it better than peasantry.


I hope I'm not the only one here to know this song.

In some countries, there are political parties that use the word peasant in their names. This would not happen in an English speaking country. It does show some of the different values associated with an agriculture-based society as opposed to an urban one. As for nobility, I would not say that this would necessarily be an urban (bourgeois?) phenomenon. Again, it seems to be a hark back to the past (feudal times?) insofar as it seems equally at odds with a society based on industry and commerce.

Every country or society has ideas about low and high culture. Is peasant vs. nobility a Polish way of looking at it, or not?
miranda  
6 Oct 2008 /  #16
lol.. that's called being cheap. :D

I know.
pawian 195 | 19,915  
6 Oct 2008 /  #17
What is your opinion about Polish mentality and dominant traditions?

The truth is that in the remote past Poland`s dominant culture was the one created by aristocrats and gentry. Later, when they passed away into oblivion in result of various historical storms, peasants` culture surfaced and became dominant.

Paradoxically, peasants acquired a lot and borrowed heavily from noblemen.

Today, the Polish culture is a perfect mixture of peasants` low and noblemen`s high culture.

Like in every country. Don`t Americans have their country music and Broadway plays?????

Noble Polish tradition: a fairly fancy restaurant in Toronto. Polish group walks in, stands around having fancy drinks and after an hour asks for bread. That's it. They have fancy drinks and bread dipped in olive oil/balsamic vinegar.

Caviar is eaten with bread too.
OP Clara 1 | 17  
6 Oct 2008 /  #18
I will answer to both of you in one post.

Yes I have been on lecture about British society and there are huge differences between former states. Nobility and peasantry or lauborers are equal citiznes but this people don't have much to do with each other they behave in much different way they have different values and of course much different wealth. Communism has changed Polish society and I have been thinking about result of this mix and final result.
pawian 195 | 19,915  
6 Oct 2008 /  #19
Communism has changed Polish society and I have been thinking about result of this mix and final result.

So I told you. We can observe a combination of two cultures.
OP Clara 1 | 17  
6 Oct 2008 /  #20
Thank you. I've used your thoughts to make my own summary :) I don't think that Polish society is totaly mixed rather more influenced.
PolskaDoll 28 | 2,104  
6 Oct 2008 /  #21
I can't find on this forum nothing about some delicious dishes Poland has

Have a good hunt through this part of the forums Poland Food and Drink :)
Filios1 8 | 1,343  
6 Oct 2008 /  #22
Which one dominates Poland ?

Soon enough, nothing of Polands past culture will be left, but a melting pot of filth like the EU strives all its member nations to be.
OP Clara 1 | 17  
6 Oct 2008 /  #23
It is good that you care so much about our culture.
miranda  
6 Oct 2008 /  #24
Caviar is eaten with bread too.

that was not the case here. It was an example of being cheap Pawian.
Switezianka - | 463  
6 Oct 2008 /  #25
Polish culture is full of traditions that derive from the traditions of nobility. Especially when it comes to machanie szabelką (waving a sabre), golden freedom and drinking.

Polish nobility (when it existed) didn't usually represent too much of high culture. Try reading Pasek's diaries, Pan Tadeusz or Zemsta and you'll see who I'm talking about.
Filios1 8 | 1,343  
6 Oct 2008 /  #26
It is good that you care so much about our culture.

Of course. You cannot expect anything less...
osiol 55 | 3,922  
6 Oct 2008 /  #27
I have been on lecture about British society and there are huge differences between former states.

It is much more complex than that. There are not two classes of people, nor are there three as it is often claimed (this is not just Britain I am talking about). However, in Britain, there are many so-called middle class values within the working classes; a middle class derived from both working and the lower echelons of the upper class; people who seem to be upper class of some sort, but whose roots lie in 19th century working class Ireland; blah blah blah. As I said: it is quite complex.

Some base these social distinctions solely on employment, some on ownership of property, some on whether or not you had a library card as a child, or if you have seperate knives and forks for fish, whether the milk goes in your teacup before or after the tea, perhaps even by where your parents were on the social scale. In some parts of the world, if your house has a proper floor rather than one made of mud, you might be considered middle class.

Quite a few of the Poles I have worked with have, if not grown up on farms themselves, have had close family members working on farms. But agriculture alone is not enough to make social distinctions between people. Some parts of Poland have lots of small farms, other parts have much larger farms, on a par in scale with many western (or northwestern) European farms. Likewise, townsfolk may also be well-off or not.

At long last, back to Poland. Wasn't communism supposed to level out all the people into those who are equal and those who are more equal than others? I'm more interested in how history has shaped Polish society (as an example of a country which has come from feudalism, into industrialisation and through communism).

And so on and so on. What was the question?
Filios1 8 | 1,343  
6 Oct 2008 /  #28
Wasn't communism supposed to level out all the people into those who are equal and those who are more equal than others

You're forgetting one more donkey, it was also meant to sift out and destroy anyone who gave a hint that they were opposed to the system, and to make life hard on any Pole who had aristocratic blood. The latter especially, were hated by many, jealous, peasant scum who saw communism as a godsend.
z_darius 14 | 3,968  
6 Oct 2008 /  #29
From the one hand Poland has Jazz from the other hand Polish national dish is bigos and pierogi.

Actually, bigos is a noble tradition in Poland. It was introduced to Poland by a royalty.
Pierogi are Italian ravioli. Doesn't ravioli sound classy, even if it's the same thing as the allegedly lowly pierogi?

As for Jazz... now we're talking "peasant" tradition.

So now, that we established that you mixed things up so badly are you of

peasant or noble tradition?

pawian 195 | 19,915  
7 Oct 2008 /  #30
Polish nobility (when it existed) didn't usually represent too much of high culture. Try reading Pasek's diaries, Pan Tadeusz or Zemsta and you'll see who I'm talking about.

The fact of writing diaries is enough to be acknowledged as a symbol of high culture.
Pasek, a representative of gentry, seemed to be driven by high culture needs.

Actually, bigos is a noble tradition in Poland. It was introduced to Poland by a royalty. Pierogi are Italian ravioli. Doesn't ravioli sound classy, even if it's the same thing as the allegedly lowly pierogi? As for Jazz... now we're talking "peasant" tradition.

Yes, it is all messed up pretty well.

Archives - 2005-2009 / Life / Poland peasant or noble tradition?Archived