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Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446  
28 Dec 2008 /  #1
The Nanny State, Polish or otherwise, can be oppressive, but its justification is grass-roots misconduct. Most laws could be done away with if more people acted decently, didn't look for loopholes and bend or break the law. But many people break or bend the law with few moral qualms, eg tax regulations, becuase they feel their tax money is basically bankrolling selfish, corrupt, nepotistic and high-living politicians. And since, as the Poles say, 'przykład idzie z góry' (the example flows down from above), politcians are not generally perceived as the epitome of morality and decency......
F15guy 1 | 160  
28 Dec 2008 /  #2
Sorry, disagree with you on this. People break the law because they are selfish, corrupt and want to live better by not paying the taxes. They also think they can get away with it.
mafketis 34 | 12,459  
28 Dec 2008 /  #3
Nanny State = Państwo solidarne?
28 Dec 2008 /  #4
i think, państwo opiekuńcze...
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
28 Dec 2008 /  #5
I agree PGTX, 100%
mafketis 34 | 12,459  
28 Dec 2008 /  #6
So do I, I just couldn't resist a cheap shot against PiS....
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446  
1 Jan 2009 /  #7
If, as you say, people are selfish, corrupt tax-evaders, then the question arises: who made them so? Is it the fault of their parents, the school, church, media or what? Zamoyski once said: young people are only as good as ther rearing. If that is true, then who is bringung them up wrong?

and want to live better by not paying the taxes. T
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
1 Jan 2009 /  #8
Think also about the feeling of being cheated. I've sometimes felt like not paying tax here given the huge sums they ask for. And for what? Funding causes which I have little say in or approve of. Like firing sth off into the void.

The Poles are paying ever more for property. Deduct ZUS, then you contemplate tax payments. Look at the Youtube case that hairball provided some months ago on the morality of tax payments. There was a full inquiry into it, exploring the justifications for civil disobedience and tax avoidance.
lesser 4 | 1,311  
1 Jan 2009 /  #9
Nothing wrong if one avoid paying too high taxes. Politicians have not any moral right to take from us as much as they wish.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
1 Jan 2009 /  #10
Yeah, try telling that to the tax office though. If you are 1 grosz out, they are on top of you. My tax calculations always come to a different figure than those of my expert. I pay for peace of mind, I have no wish to enter bureaucratic wrangles.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446  
1 Jan 2009 /  #11
Tax evading is but one example. What about the shoplifters. Now they have to have a whole army of watchers in Polish superemarkets and discount stores not to mention close-circuit TV and in some cases even unpaid-for-goods detectors. I am told more and more Poles often pick up and consume candy bars nad other snacks off the shelves without paying for them.

My question is who is responsible for this decline of public moraltiy, not only in Poland of course. In America we always hearr about declining moral standards. what grandparents would be outraged by, parents prefer to turn a blind eye to and the kids can be absolute moral slime. Nothing just falls out of the sky. There are reasons for everything. Who is rearing the younger generation in dishonesty, cheating during exams, petty theft, cheating on spouses, etc., etc.

I am not referring to "professional crime" -- bank robberies, drug trade, hired killers, etc., but the grass-roots immorality that has become increasingly widespread. This is the world your kids are going to have to grow up in. Or do you prefer to light up a joint and say: "Who cares!"
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
1 Jan 2009 /  #12
The joint sounds good ;)
lesser 4 | 1,311  
1 Jan 2009 /  #13
Media controlled by left-wing ideologues spread anti-Christian messages, reject Christian ethic and morality. To some extend we see effects in everyday life. Small children in Poland are definitely more arrogant than during communist period. This is because their parents were themselves influenced by media and today they abandoned their role. My cousin who lived few years in Portsmouth says that in comparison with English children, those in Poland are true angels. Anglican church pretty don't exist in this society.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
1 Jan 2009 /  #14
And right-wing Christians like Bush are morally upstanding citizens, paragons of virtue? The behaviour of English children is determined by far more than the Anglican church. It is but a minor influence.
lesser 4 | 1,311  
1 Jan 2009 /  #15
And right-wing Christians like Bush are morally upstanding citizens, paragons of virtue?

Bush is not a Christian, just a hypocrite like vast majority of politicians who claim to be religious.

It is but a minor influence.

I know and I say that this is a problem. Anglican church should rejoin RCC.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
1 Jan 2009 /  #16
Well, there needs to be more than a joint belief in evolution for that to happen. Both churches believe in it.

Is being a Christian about faith alone or faith with deeds, lesser?
lesser 4 | 1,311  
2 Jan 2009 /  #17
Both churches have much more in common than you think. Many Anglican priests already rejoined RCC.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
2 Jan 2009 /  #18
You are right, the split could hardly be described as fractious. There is evident scope for reconciliation and reassembling of former ranks.

However, are the dichotomies too wide to bridge the schism between the two churches?

Well Sonny Jim, your analysis please.
lesser 4 | 1,311  
2 Jan 2009 /  #19
I don't think so. I know for sure that RCC will not rebuild its theology to gain few priests. It is up to Anglican clergy to abandon old mistakes. If the get a bit of treatment of Catholic Eastern churches then this is absolutely enough IMO.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
2 Jan 2009 /  #20
What old mistakes are you alluding to?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446  
2 Jan 2009 /  #21
If the Anglican Church is a minor influence, then who or what is THE MAJOR INFLUENCE that has turned so many Brits in spoilt, selfish, tamtrum-throwing brats of all ages, including those who defecate in the corners of Kraków pubs?
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
2 Jan 2009 /  #22
Lad culture. Nationalist disrespect of foreign elements. Cutting loose without barriers. They don't give a Castlemaine XXXX about the church.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446  
4 Jan 2009 /  #23
Many dzięks, Seanus. That made me look up lad culture and eudcate myself. Wikipedia ahd this definiton: "The New Man and the New Lad are niches in the market more than anything else, often defined according to an array of lifestyle accessories". The New Lad image domainates the New Man image simply because of its greater success at garnering advertising revenue for men's magazines. The New Man image, that could be perceived as namby-pamby, failed to appeal to a wide readership. The more adolescent Lad culture appeals to the ordinary man more.

I hadn't known the details of New Man and Lad Culture, but the above clearly reinforces my conviciton that all subcultures are mainy buisness rip-offs. Grunge, piercing freaks, Glasgow Rangers fanatics, hip-hoppers, you name it -- are all about talking people into making a so-called fashion statement or ideological declaration or belonging to a "cool" group and then paying through the nose for all the required duds, gadgets and gimmicks that go with them. The tattoo thing is esp. lucrative because the sucker gets hit twice: once when the tattoo is applied and even more when it is finally removed. (And usually the de-tattooed areas remains permanently discoloured or disfigured.)
time means 5 | 1,309  
4 Jan 2009 /  #24
so many Brits in spoilt, selfish, tamtrum-throwing brats of all ages, including those who defecate in the corners of Kraków pubs?

what utter crap. in all my visits to poland i have seen one fight (two young poles) and no behaviour like this. a `journo` say no more. i have seen some crap wrote on here and your number 1.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446  
5 Jan 2009 /  #25
Trying hitting the Brit stag-party scene in Kraków pubs some weekend, esp. in the warmer months. This time of year the lads are afraid of freezing their.... Besides, I was referring to subcultrues in general, not Poland or Britain specifically.YOu don't really think subcultrue promoters are dong that to make the life of younger people more varied and interesting, do you? They may try to potray themselves that way as great friends and benefcators of society, but their only concern is fleecing the gullible and raking in maximum profits.

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