muslim community in poland

I'm not a fan of the biblical times argument though Israeli Jews have a right to exist and a right to a state (that too many would gladly deprive them of).

The Palestinians do have some legitimate complaints but the problem is they don't want peace, they want an overwhelming military victory (which is not in the cards).

Politically the Palestinians have not yet matured enough to realize that actions have consequences so they do things like elect a party that vows to never negotiate with Israel and then get upset with the Israeli government for not negotiating (this is rational?)

And they haven't figured out that Israel's Achilles heel isn't violence but non-violent civil resistance (but again they want a violent victory, not peace).

And they haven't figured out that most Arab governments wouldn't treat them any better than the Israelis do* and only use the Palestinian issue to distract attention from their own failings.

As for Spain, it was once Muslim but isn't now. The idea 'once Muslim always Muslim' is something that Muslims need to seriously get over if they want non-Muslims to take them seriously. And how on earth do you suppose Muslims going to 'reclaim' Spain?

*probably worse other Arabs have already killed many, many times more Palestinians than Israelis have, hell, Palestinians have killed many times more Palestinians than Israelis have.

how they hell do they possibly want a military victory when they fighting against the latest weapons and technology with afew machine guns and stones...cherie blair,a barrister,went to palestine and saw and heard first hand accounts from palestinians and what goes on in thier daily life and when iterviewd she said they have no choice but to blow themselves up after what av seen and she was forced to publicly apologise for her remarks,the prime minister of uk wife apologising for speaking the truth now that is power..6 million palestinians made refugees,living in camps for 50 years in egypt,lebanon,beirut...get a 2008 encyclopeadia and the name palestine has been completley removed and replaced with west bank and gaza..that is what you call systematic erasure of a nation..and many arab nations are the lapdogs of america..why do you think they own people hate them??you honestly think if a muslim nation went and invaded a european country today,rest of europe would just carry on like nothing is happening???yes your right,the problem rests with muslim leaders,they need to be replaced by some serious people who will not bow to the devil and his dollar..

quality foresight !!...rofl

poor polish lady :(

not just anybody, but those who use terrorism and kill innocent civilians to get their 'point' through. if islam is such a peaceful religion then why do you have so many extremists who use the words from koran, twist them so it suits their preachings and use them as an excuse to blow up buildings and planes full of innocent people? christians don't do such things in the name of religion, but i reckon the muslim terrorists use their religion as a cover of how crazy, twisted and vile people they really are. i mean, how crazy do you have to be to believe that if you kill a bunch of innocent people you will go to heaven? you people have a lot of issues, you are centuries behind the rest of the world and i don't EVER see your religion developing and adjusting to the modern times, you are just too stubborn and proud for that. everybody is too scared of all those muslim terrorists forever plotting what to blow up next to do something about this problem.

oh yeah and if you are so lovely and peaceful, why do you feel the need to use the word f*cking so much? do you think it makes you sound more serious? cos to me you sound like a backward stubborn twat.

Oh yes some do...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism

watch out cocoon!!!!

ku-klux-klan and stuff like that? good point, but like i said, not on such a big scale as the muslims today. i mean look at the figures, look at the names of those groups - i have never heard about most of them and that is not because i am ignorant or blind to what christians do, but because they are harmless compared to the likes of Osama and we just don't hear about them. i think christian extremists are last on the list of all the anti-terrorist groups these days working 24/7 to protect innocent people.

Just one minute search result :)

If it is not reported or you didn't hear, doesn't mean it is not there.

Edit: See how a French interrogator used to torture Algerians in their own country, and was awarded for his "bravery"

youtube.com/watch?v=BhuzNL5jWDw

I am just going by what you wrote in your post..You have basically clumped ALL Muslims as terrorists.. I am Catholic myself but I do happen to know a lot of Muslims who are truly peace-loving and very honorable individuals. You will find extremists almost everywhere.. This 'climate of fear' that you live in is only based on fairly recent events .. Tomorrow it could be a group of club-footed Eskimo men with lisps who can wreak even more havoc and terror .. you never can know for sure ;-)

i will tell you what is comes in quran

and why no eace in islam
read

Qur’an:9:5 “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

Qur’an:9:112 “The Believers fight in Allah’s Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed.”
Qur’an:9:29 “Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission.”
Ishaq:325 “Muslims, fight in Allah’s Cause. Stand firm and you will prosper. Help the Prophet, obey him, give him your allegiance, and your religion will be victorious.”

Qur’an:8:39 “Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.”
Qur’an:8:39 “So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world).”

Qur’an:9:38 “Believers, what is the matter with you, that when you are asked to go forth and fight in Allah’s Cause you cling to the earth? Do you prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? Unless you go forth, He will afflict and punish you with a painful doom, and put others in your place.”

Qur’an:9:123 “Fight the unbelievers around you, and let them find harshness in you.”

A blatant copy and paste job.
I am interested to know what is in atleast 5 lines before and after every line you copied and pasted from some whacko website.

here's another.. (just to show how easy it is to take things out of context from the internet and fit one's agenda)

You shall destroy all the peoples ... showing them no pity." (7: 16)

"... All the people present there shall serve you as forced labour." (20:12)

"... You shall put all its males to the sword. You may, however, take as your booty the women, the children, the livestock, and everything in the town -- all its spoil -- and enjoy the use of the spoil of your enemy which the LORD your God gives you." (20:14-15)

"... You shall not let a soul remain alive." (20:17)

All these quotations are from the part of the Old Testament called the Torah (Deuteronomy), a scripture that is holy to both Jews and Christians.

mediamonitors.net/elmasry31.html

it's probably due less to religion and more due to much more complicated phenomena, yet attributed to islam. You used the word "twist" so i think you acknowledge that there is manipulation of the worst kind going on. Are you being manipulated too?

If we look at inquisition re: fanaticism and torture techniques, it wouldn't be fair to attribute that to christianity despite what those who were involved might have said.

Any ways, I'm curious as to what you would regard "use terrorism and kill innocent civilians" to mean. The reason why I ask is because uniformed soldiers also kill innocent civillians, however words like collateral damage, bystanders, civillain losses, etc, are frequently used.

From iht.com/articles/ap/2007/07/02/europe/EU-GEN-Italy-Afghan-Conference.p hp

"It's very unfortunate that in these military operations at times civilians get caught in the middle..."

reads much cleaner than
"It's awful that our troops accidentally, but routinely shoot or blow up innocent men women and children..."

I don't know if you get my point or not but if you don't then never mind.

Anyway I ask myself how i'd feel in their situation. I think killing innocents is wrong but i sit here from a very comfy position, how would i feel if i were treated like **** by an occupying force, or if my relatives were?

And what if my main source of early education came from someone who preached suicide bombing, and what if i didn't know where he and his network were getting their funding from? What if i didn't have the skills to question all the things i accepted to be true? But you have those skills, right?

ash786
I hear what you're saying but the truth is, most of the responses you'll get are quite canned and uninformed. Maybe this one i'm giving is too:\

No one will really be able to comment on the continual and systematic division (of every increasingly small sections) of the west bank because then people might question their own governments' involvement.

Most people don't want to entertain the notion that their axioms are flawed or that "their side is not right." Or worse yet that everyone is crooked, or worse even still that it's all so f'd up we can't do our precious judging from our perfect moral compasses.

Sa'laam

this was sent to the random chat thread, not sure why as it's in line with the discussion

This questions were answered hundereds of times in the PF.

But, your hazelnut brain can't perceive.

do i need to explain what terror and terrorism are? you're just picking on my words now. uninformed soldiers kill civillians who are caught up in the fights but they don't do it on purpose do they. they're accidents. terrorists are ready to kill innocents and they're a threat to the society. to them, those who died in their attacks are sacrifice and an 'example' of how they will treat others if they don't listen and obey. the difference here is obvious. as for me calling all muslims terrorists, where did i exactly say that? i said that to me islam is centuries behind the modern world, that there are many extremists who use and twist what's in the old book of koran to fit their preachings. i realise there are christian extremists, but their terror attacks are hardly comparable to what the muslim extremists have been doing in the recent years. i prefer to stick to NOW rather than whine about what's been going on 50 or 100 years ago cos that doesn't really concern me.


hide under a rock, turk

Like a rock, TURK

Please stop. The more I read the more I cringe.

Do you think a little Iraqi kid, who has lost both arms and legs and whose entire family have been killed by an American bomb, really gives a flying f*ck about whether the guy who dropped it intended to do so? When you invade a country, you will inevitably take a large number of civilian lives. In the case of Iraq, the motives were suspect to say the least, so much so that the US and British governments had to lie in order to gain public support for it. America is a Christian country fighting Islamic Terrorism in the Middle East, how do you think the average Iraqi person views Christians? Probably as terrorists.


I simply don't know where to begin. Honestly, how many Muslims do you actually think do this?

For the record, both Bush and Blair (Christians) referred to god when justifying their actions in Iraq.

I agree.
But she has mouth diarrhea. No hope for recovery.

so, what is the solution to palestenian-israel conflict?

i have no idea what it will take for these two countries to find common ground, put down arms and live in harmony. the problem lies in both governments and the people are just pawns in this political game.

and by the way, if muslim reclaim spain, does that mean that india can reclaim pakistan?

you think im an enthusiast and supporter of the war in Iraq cos i think all muslims are terrorists and they ought to be killed? good one. you got my post completely wrong, please stop putting words in my mouth ok it's crazy. i was just saying what the differences between terrorist attacks and accidental yet inevitable loss of life among civillians during a war were. i suppose an Iraqi person doesn't give a toss whether that bullet or bomb was intended for him, i do not support Americans invading Iraq and Afghanistan at all, where the hell did you get that idea from?? i find the reasons for our troops to fight and lose their lives (and kill innocent civillians in the progress) out there absolutely insufficient and if there was a petition i could sign to get them pulled outta there i'd do it anyday. all i was talking about were the muslim extremists who kill innocent people in the US and Europe just cos Bush sent soldiers to Iraq and Afghan, whilst many of them don't even wanna be there. you got it all wrong dude and i suggest you stop trying to read between the lines cos you're trying too hard.

Islamic factor is just a political tool for the West.They use it in the direction they want.
If they wanted to finish with the islamic factor,they would just let the Serbs and Russians finish their jobs.

Finish their jobs ?
It seems you would respect that...

Bless you dear, you completely misunderstood my point.


As opposed to the Christian country that started a war in Iraq, just because some Saudi nutters hijacked some planes and crashed them in to buildings?


Here lies the problem. You can't distingush between a tiny proportion of nutters, who twist Islam to commit these atrocities, and the vast majority of Muslims who are decent people, just like anybody else. From the way you bang on about it, anybody would think that every other Muslim is prepared to blow themselves up for the cause. I'm sorry, but it's just not the case.

i wouldn't call America Christian to begin with, i don't think war was the way to go, there probably aren't many people left who still support this war (ordinary civillians, not politicians), and i still remember images from the hijackers country where people were cheering after WTC was blown up. the WTC attack was totally uncalled for so in a way i understand why America attacked Iraq. what would you do if you were the president mr. smart ass? so many people got killed that day for absolutely no reason, the people responsible weren't just some Saudi nutters, they were cold blooded terrorists and it's very frightening that there are special places out there where people get trained to commint such crimes. many of the terrorists caught in UK were christians who first converted to islam and then they were encouraged by their 'mentors' into making bombs and blowing themselves up. there's this funny connection between islam and terrorism isn't there and you can't deny it. obviously there are normal decent people among muslims but the baddies always stand out and there are a lot of muslim baddies out there plotting what to bomb next as we speak. call me prejudiced, but i'd rather be safe than sorry.

I don't have a problem as long as muslims explode themselves.The question is why should they do it in public causing harm to other people and not in private.

Jesus JustysiaS, have you not heard of ETA, the Tamil Tigers or the IRA. Terrorism is not directly linked with Islam or vice-versa. As I have illustrated, you can find examples of such terrorist organisations across the globe. These terrorist organisations simply form the militant arm of political movements. Their methods are brutal because it is the most effective way of achieving their aims.

There are a number of people who feel sympathy with these movements, but do not support the methods employed by the terrorist groups. Just because someone believes in a united Ireland, that does not mean to say they condone the actions of the IRA. Just because a Muslims resents the actions of the US and UK in the Middle East, it does not mean they condone the actions of Al Queda and related organisations.

I have sympathy for the plight of the Palestinian people, I do not support some of the methods employed by Hamas.


I think you grossly overestimate the proportion of Muslims who are involved with, or support such activity.

Just don't make all Muslims accountable for the actions of a tiny proportion of nutters. It's equivalent to someone holding you or I accountable for civilian deaths in Iraq.

you make a generalization of America.. dont include me in this, i dont/didnt/neverdid/against/opposed..


just like you shouldnt use A CHRISTIAN COUNTRY and hold us all responsible for the nutters who waged the war.. get off justys back.. she made valid points and your so wrapped up in the same old discussion bringing innocents into the mix of the debate.. we all know both have innocents.. fek your argument.. she was talking about the difference of the terrorists.. which she is right. they use just about any method to kill.. no matter whos in the way, how they have to do it and they are taught as children to do this!! how many so called Christian groups teach children in the USA to kill ? and if they do, someone snuffs them out and they are jailed and plastered all over the news so the whole country can see what idiots live like !!


she was talking terrorists.. and theres a larger number then you think, if there wasnt such a large number , I am sure that the northern alliance could have taken control of the situation a long time ago..

kinda silly to send our guys for only a few small number of terrorist..

A large number of fighters forming part of this organization (the numbers vary between 15,000 and 160,000) had a reputation of being the best equipped of Afghanistan. General Abdul Rashid Dostum received support from Uzbekistan and from Russia. He had formed an alliance with G. Hikmatyar in 1994

fas.org/irp/world/para/northern_alliance.htm

how can such a large alliance not be able to control the taliban and other groups with such a large number of fighters?
if you say that there is such low numbers of terrorists.. show some proof..

OH but you cant, because the number is alot higher then you thought!!
and this number has been growing since before 9/11.

time.com/time/covers/1101020812/story.html

I think I have addressed enough.. I have some more to post in a new thread.

It will not help him. He is already a blindfolded man.

agree.. theres so much more.. pointing fingers wont solve it.

I am so glad obama is in office. maybe the number will decrease.. they know he wants to take the troops safely out .. the money will stay home , like you said, protect our boarders.. Obama said same thing.. makes sense to me.