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PESEL and the White Pages


isa 10 | 41  
25 Jan 2009 /  #1
Hello!

1. If I am a holder of a Polish passport, does it mean I have a PESEL number assigned to me? And if so, how would I find out what it is?

2. Is there an equivalent of the White Pages directory (residential address directory) in Poland? If not, how do you find peoples' addresses/phone numbers?

Thanks!
mrbubbles 10 | 614  
25 Jan 2009 /  #2
I guess so - all Polish citizens have a PESEL number.

Have you been granted citizenship but you're not resident in Poland? If so, you need to register yourself 'zameldować' with the local authorities. They will take your details and give you an ID card. This can be a long process (depending on the bastard sitting opposite you in the office) so the more background info you can give us here the more we can help you.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163  
25 Jan 2009 /  #3
Hmm I've found something like this:

(based on information of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and Administration)

Basically, Social Security number is transmitted " from the office " . entitled to :

* Polish nationals registered for permanent residence or temporary over two months and niezameldowanym who apply for an ID card ( at the request of the competent authority of the municipality )
* Foreigners registered for permanent residence or temporary over two months having a residence ( at the request of the competent authority of the municipality )
* Niezameldowanym Polish citizens and foreigners who are in the territory of the Republic of Polish social insurance or health ( at the request of the payer insurance premiums ) ,
* Polish citizens living abroad , applying for a passport ( at the request of the Polish consul ) .

Where separate provisions need to have a social security number by certain persons , the minister responsible for public administration may give them your Social Security number on their written request .

And according to that everybody getting Polish passport is also getting PESEL... But I remember that when Rostowski became a finance minister (he was born and lived before in the UK) there was a big news that he doesn't even have PESEL and It was confirmed, so looks like It's possible to have a passport and no PESEL.

Generally PESEL ia an 11 digit number, where first 6 shows your date of birth... for example If somebody was born on 15th December 1981 then PESEL is 811215 + 5 other numbers like 11766 or something... so check If ever gotten something like this, together with a passport maybe... and If not then probably you don't have It.
OP isa 10 | 41  
25 Jan 2009 /  #4
* obywatelom polskim zamieszkałym za granicą, ubiegającym się o wydanie paszportu (na wniosek polskiego konsula).

That would apply to me. I remember when I was filing for my Polish passport, I had to attach a form stating that I do not know my PESEL number or even if I had one. Received my passport but no mention of PESEL.

I was born in Poland, therefore always its citizen. Are you saying that the passport will not do in my dealings in Poland and I must "zameldowac" myself and need an ID card?
mrbubbles 10 | 614  
25 Jan 2009 /  #5
I must "zameldowac" myself and need an ID card?

Well, I wasn't born in Poland so when I claimed Polish citizenship (Dad's Polish), I first received a letter confirming my status. You obviously won't need this if your birth is registered in Poland.

I live in Lodz, so my next stage was to go to my local 'delegatura' (local council) and 'zameldować (register). I had to show proof of residence and the letter confirming my citizenship. Christ the biurwa in the delegatura was a bitch. Seriously. She sat there with a face like an Easter Island statue with an arse full of razor blades. Anyway, after much crying and pleading, the cow registered me and I could move to the next stage.

Which was to go to the local 'Urząd stanu cywilnego' (USC - Registry of Births Marriages and Deaths) to register my Polish birth (and marriage, because I'm married). They processed my personal details for my ID card and calculated my PESEL, because, as you know, it's based on date of birth, sex and a couple of other things. Whether you're a homosexual / communist etc.

Yhen it was a short wait before I could go back to the delegatura and collect my card.

You should find the procedure a lot easier since your birth details will be in Poland. I'm assuming you're not in Poland at the moment? I would suggest getting in contact with the USC where you were born and asking them for advice, since as far as I know, they are the people who assign PESELs. Their number will be on the internet somewhere
OP isa 10 | 41  
25 Jan 2009 /  #6
I'm assuming you're not in Poland at the moment? I would suggest getting in contact with the USC where you were born and asking them for advice, since as far as I know, they are the people who assign PESELs.

No, I'm not in Poland...yet ;-)
Thanks for suggesting USC - I will contact them first to find out if I do have a PESEL number.

Zasadniczo numer PESEL nadawany jest „z urzędu”. Przysługuje:

* obywatelom polskim zameldowanym na pobyt stały lub czasowy trwający ponad 2 miesiące

I did not realize that all Polish citizens have to register (zameldunek). And re-register if they move?
Leftovers from the communism regime, I presume?
plk123 8 | 4,150  
25 Jan 2009 /  #8
all Polish citizens have a PESEL number.

not true. i have a passport but no pesel.

Received my passport but no mention of PESEL.

yup, me too.

I must "zameldowac" myself and need an ID card?

yup

And re-register if they move?
Leftovers from the communism regime, I presume?

yeah something stupid like that.
DN  
26 Jan 2009 /  #9
you get a pesel at birth... it actually starts with your birthdate (yymmdd then seemingly meaningless #'s... makes it hella lot easier to remember at least the first part of it ^_~) so if you were born in PL, you have a pesel.

Not sure where to find it... maybe on your birth certificate? I didn't think I had one either till I filed for a polish ID card and passport.
MrBubbles 10 | 614  
26 Jan 2009 /  #10
I have a PESEL and I am not Polish

Good for you!

not true. i have a passport but no pesel.

Are you a Polish citizen? if so, you should have a PESEL You need one for your ID card
DN  
26 Jan 2009 /  #11
shouldn't they have somewhere where they could look that up...
i mean, if you file for a doc saying 'I haven't a clue what my pesel is' can't they (for a fee, naturally) search your name in some database/ room of old filing cabinets and get the thing?
OP isa 10 | 41  
26 Jan 2009 /  #12
Exactly. I visited the Sopot Urzad Miasta online and found this formularz:
Wniosek o udostępnienie danych z ewidencji ludności, zbioru PESEL. Do you think it's the right document to find out my PESEL #?

RE: the White Pages - I guess there is no telephone directory for Polish residents?
benszymanski 8 | 465  
26 Jan 2009 /  #13
I guess there is no telephone directory for Polish residents?

If there is I don't think it is commonly used. When I set up a phone line I was asked if I wanted to be listed and I declined. I think most people do that.

There is a yellow pages for finding companies here:.pkt.pl

Don't know where the white pages one is though.
OP isa 10 | 41  
26 Jan 2009 /  #14
Oh, is my face red...Prompted by some of your comments, I examined my Polish passport closely (which I normally avoid like plague, since I hate my photo ;-)) and right under the passport number I found the PESEL #.

Please, forgive me for wasting your time!

Now, is the above mentioned ID card a dowod osobisty? And I still need it in addition to my passport? For what purpose?
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163  
26 Jan 2009 /  #15
Now, is the above mentioned ID card a dowod osobisty?

Yes.

And I still need it in addition to my passport? For what purpose?

Well, If police is controling somebody then that's usually the first thing they ask about, If you want to buy alcohol and don't look much older than 18 then they may ask for dowód, just like when you want to open a bank account or do a thousand other things - in most cases you should be able to do that with a passport only, in some countries people don't have IDs so we probably wouldn't die without them either but every Polish citizen older than 18 and living in Poland must have It. Generally in Poland there's a big "dokument ze zdjęciem" fetish - you need one (a different one of course) If you want to go to a doctor, borrow a book from the library and often even to buy a monthly bus ticket.
OP isa 10 | 41  
27 Jan 2009 /  #16
Thank you all!

It finally all makes sense ( in my anal American mindset):

PESEL = social security #
ID card (dowod osobisty) = US drivers license
Polish bureaucracy = US Motor Vehicle Department in the 70's ;-)

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