Return PolishForums LIVE
  PolishForums Archive :
Archives - 2005-2009 / Language  % width 9

Verb endings attaching themselves to other words


osiol 55 | 3921  
29 Mar 2009 /  #1
I don't expect to find myself using this kind of thing in the near future, but I think I ought to know what it's about. It is just another one of those things that makes Polish stupidly difficult. It seems that sometimes the verb ending that denotes the subject and number, can drift away from the verb and pop itself onto the end of a noun (one that is stressed apparently), leaving the verb as just the participle or something like that.

Examples:

Why did you come back?
Dlaczego wróciliście?
Dlaczegoście wrócili?

You were there yesterday:
Ty tam byłaś wczoraj
Tyś tam była wczoraj

But then it seems to get worse. If the verb in question is a form of być, then it might be omitted from the sentence, but with the ending still attaching itself elsewhere.

You were always the last one:
Ty zawsze jesteś ostatni
Tyś zawsze ostatni

Zdrowiście? - Are you in good health?

Questions:
Is this the only way endings can move from one word to another? Can they move from verbs to adjectives, for example? Can adjectival or noun endings wander about in a similar way? Where would this linguistic feature occur and when would it not occur? Is it just something that happens when a noun is to be stressed?

I admit to finding those examples already written down and I only tweaked them slightly to look good on this page. I shall now present you with my one that I have tried to work out with my own brain:

Zdezorientowanyście?
gumishu  
29 Mar 2009 /  #2
Białyś, czyś czarny? - Are you white or black?
Czyś ty zgłupiał? - Have you gone out of your mind?
Ale żeście napaskudzili/nabrudzili/nasyfili! - What a mess have you done?

and Zawsześ ostatni.

I wouldn't bother with that that much. Go the regular way when you are learning. I mean, it is good to know that, cause it helps to understand written language. But to use that is long way before you.

No, noun and adjective ending (of the declination forms) do not wander.
Ewcinka - | 27  
29 Mar 2009 /  #3
or you can try to learn some of them simply as fixed expressions.... the structure is not used very often... but phrases like "czyś ty zwariował(a)" or "coś ty zrobił(a)" are common
PolishGirl - | 2  
30 Mar 2009 /  #4
"Ale żeście napaskudzili/nabrudzili/nasyfili!"---it can be also taken like a mistake.You know...colloquial speech
Marek 4 | 867  
30 Mar 2009 /  #5
......Kiedyś spotkamy się dziś wieczór? - Przed kinem.
Gdzieś mieszkasz? - W Zakopanym.
.......
z_darius 14 | 3960  
30 Mar 2009 /  #6
Nah, if I got the context right then it would might be Gdzież mieszkasz? , although not standard Polish.
Marek 4 | 867  
30 Mar 2009 /  #7
....Guess I missed that one, Darius:))) lol
gumishu  
30 Mar 2009 /  #8
the moving ending does not occur in present tense (only where participle - ił(a) occurs)
present tense verb endings do not wander (mieszkasz does not drop -asz, mieszkam -am and so on)
then again kiedyś is a more often a word in itself (sometime) of different origin than kiedy + wandering -ś ending (this is in pattern of jakiś, czyjś, gdzieś (original ending was si in Old Polish - just like the case of Czech jaki si = jakiś, kdy si = kiedyś (si being a pronoun (this,that) seen in saying Do siego roku))

but still kiedy can take this wandering: Kiedyś ty tam zdążył być?
When did you manage to be there?

mafketis mentioned somewhere already that the origins of these wandering endings (-ś, -m, -śmy, ście) has something to do with severely reduced forms of jesteś, jestem etc. Look at the situation in Czech again (ja jsem byl, ja jsem udielal, ty jsi procztala, byli jste, uvidieli jste, napsali jsme - these are regular past tense constructions in Czech; j is left out in pronounciation most of the times - so it sounds ja sem byl, ty si byla)

btw these Czech examples show that past tense construction was participal (but this was hardly past participle form - and in Polish (and Russian) jest forms were soon dropped

before, there had been completely different forms of past tenses (aoryst and imperfectum) in use in Polish (and other Slavic languages). examples of these can be traced in personal names (Warzecha, Warzycha, Kupicha - warzyć to cook, kupić - to buy)

The wandering of the endings -ś, -m etc is also connected to accentuation of thus suffixed verbs in Polish. Sometimes Polish word combination are to much to say on one breath that is way those endings move to faciliate pronounciation.

I can't think of any other endings that move in this way at the moment.
Piątek  
15 May 2009 /  #9
I know that in conditional forms, the personal endings can change. Powiedział(a)bym/Bym powiedział(a) - I would say, and I still don't know the rules for when to use which of these forms. I've also seen on occasion tyś jest for jesteś. But I've been learning Polish for about three years and I've never come across, as the original poster said, dlaczegoście. Where did you see this? Does anybody know where it would be used?

In case anybody can answer too, when would one use powiedziałbym and when bym powiedział?

Ben

Archives - 2005-2009 / Language / Verb endings attaching themselves to other wordsArchived