Return PolishForums LIVE
  PolishForums Archive :
Archives - 2005-2009 / Language  % width 22

ANGLOS HAVE TROUBLE WITH SZCZ, SOME WITH TRILLED 'R'


Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448  
20 Dec 2008 /  #1
One way to explain to an English speaker how to pronounce teh common szcz in Polish is to have them say such words as SUGGESTION. The 'st' in that word effectively approximates the Polish szcz.

The trilled Scottish 'r' is more problematic esp. for Americans unaccustomed to that sound, even though they are probably saying it all the time without knowing it. I recall one student I couldn't get to say robota, rasa, uta, etc. for the life me.

But this same speaker in his native English was saying geryń for gettign, beryń for betting, lołryń for loading and bołryń for boating, as is the custom of many Americans. After much effort of having him repeat geryń umpteen times I had him switch into ryba, and finally he got it.
Polson 5 | 1,771  
20 Dec 2008 /  #2
szcz

Ash chose to go to the cinema ;)
osiol 55 | 3,922  
20 Dec 2008 /  #3
SUGGESTION. The 'st' in that word effectviely approximates the Polish szcz.

Not ść?
Vincent 9 | 804   Moderator
20 Dec 2008 /  #4
ść is a softer sound(s) than szcz, but to my ears they sound the same!
Polson 5 | 1,771  
20 Dec 2008 /  #5
Just like 'rz' and 'ź', or 'cz' and 'ć'... ;)
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448  
21 Dec 2008 /  #6
In modern Polish there is no difference in sound between rz and ż, is there?
Polson 5 | 1,771  
21 Dec 2008 /  #7
They are the same :)
pawian 168 | 11,014  
21 Dec 2008 /  #8
One way to explain to an English speaker how to pronounce teh common szcz in Polish is to have them say such words as SUGGESTION. The 'st' in that word effectively approximates the Polish szcz.
The trilled Scottish 'r' is more problematic esp. for Americans unaccustomed to that sound, even though they are probably saying it all the time without knowing it. I recall one student I couldn't get to say robota, rasa, uta, etc. for the life me.
But this same speaker in his native English was saying geryń for gettign, beryń for betting, lołryń for loading and bołryń for boating, as is the custom of many Americans. After much effort of having him repeat geryń umpteen times I had him switch into ryba, and finally he got it.

Good you are explaining it. The English native speakers are always having problems with pronouncing my name. It contains a lot of hissing consonants.

My name is Grzegorz Brzęczyszczykiewicz, powiat Chrząszczyrzewoszyce.
Polson 5 | 1,771  
21 Dec 2008 /  #9
Oh, not an easy name, indeed ;) Can every Pole pronounce it without any difficulty? ^^
Krzysztof 2 | 973  
21 Dec 2008 /  #10
rz and ż

Polson didn't mean/write "ż", but "ź"

My name is Grzegorz Brzęczyszczykiewicz, powiat Chrząszczyrzewoszyce.

Ha, don't try to steal credit from the movie makers!
I think they should have copyrighted this surname :)

Can every Pole pronounce it without any difficulty?

I think so.
This Chrząszczyrzywoszyce thing is more problematic, because at first I wasn't able to remember the whole word, it's so long and its second part (-rzywoszyce) doesn't sound similar to any Polish words :)

Nevertheless it's not hard to pronounce once you remember it.
Vincent 9 | 804   Moderator
21 Dec 2008 /  #11
Grzegorz Brzęczyszczykiewicz, powiat Chrząszczyrzewoszyce.

Wow! imagine that on the back of a football shirt:)
Polson 5 | 1,771  
21 Dec 2008 /  #12
Polson didn't mean/write "ż", but "ź"

Yup.

Wow! imagine that on the back of a football shirt:)

That's why they shortened Borussia player's name Błaszczykowski into Kuba ;)
Vincent 9 | 804   Moderator
21 Dec 2008 /  #13
I guess they needed to find a space for his number:)
Polson 5 | 1,771  
21 Dec 2008 /  #14
Hehe ^^
I'm a bit disappointed, i saw a vid once, with English commentaries, great goal by Kuba against Bayern a few months ago, and they said something like 'what a wonderful goal by Kuba, the man with a name so long they had to write Kuba in the back of his shirt', lol, just tried to find it and post it here, but it seems like the vid has been removed. Pity, that was a really nice goal ;)
pawian 168 | 11,014  
21 Dec 2008 /  #15
Oh, not an easy name, indeed ;) Can every Pole pronounce it without any difficulty? ^^

I think so...

I think so.
This Chrząszczyrzywoszyce thing is more problematic, because at first I wasn't able to remember the whole word, it's so long and its second part (-rzywoszyce) doesn't sound similar to any Polish words :)
Nevertheless it's not hard to pronounce once you remember it.

Yes, it requires a little practice. I also couldn`t remember it at first, now it takes me milliseconds to utter it.
But I can`t agree the second past of the word doesn`t ring the bell. It reminds me of the surname Rzewuski.
cjjc 29 | 408  
6 Jan 2009 /  #16
Grzegorz Brzęczyszczykiewicz,

I'm not even going to try. :P

In modern Polish there is no difference in sound between rz and ż, is there?

Yes, rz is devoiced according to the advice I got on a thread I created however in real world no the difference in negligible.

The trilled Scottish 'r' is more problematic

I cannot do this and it bugs the hell out of me...

I don't know where you are supposed to put your tongue but I can't find the right place.

:/
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448  
26 Jan 2009 /  #17
The tongue approaches the back of the upper teeth but I'm at a lost as to how to generate the trill. Try pronouncing Eddie, Betty, litter, butter, etc. the American way and you will effectively be producing the trilled r.
aotc_uk - | 1  
23 Feb 2009 /  #18
Thread attached on merging:
polish r

im having trouble saying the r in polish, any tips on how to do it?
MrBubbles 10 | 614  
23 Feb 2009 /  #19
im having trouble saying the r in polish, any tips on how to do it?

I actually have a lot of trouble with this as I tend to pronounce my Rs by moving the lower lip against the top front teeth so it comes out like 'awound the wugged wocks the wagged wascal...'. Consequently any rz sound is really tricky...

Sorry no real tips apart from trying to find a Pole who can demonstrate or explain the tongue position and try to use it.
Olasz - | 69  
23 Feb 2009 /  #20
guy I teach Polish can't say "palcych" :)
osiol 55 | 3,922  
23 Feb 2009 /  #21
im having trouble saying the r in polish, any tips on how to do it?

Practice it, preferably in private. The tip of your tongue has to vibrate against the roof of your mouth, so it is best to make sure that your tongue is relaxed. If you're really having trouble, practise it without using your voice, but just blowing air through your mouth and trying to get that flapping motion going. Still finding it difficult? Try adjusting how far behind your teeth the tip of your tongue is. Start with it right behind the teeth, and as you expel air through your buccal cavity, move the tongue slowly back away from the teeth. At some point, you should find the right amount of flappiness (or vibration if you want a more technical term).

If none of that works, try it all again but this time not in private. That way, at least someone will have a good laugh listening to you. Here endeth lesson one. Part two, anyone?
Piątek  
15 May 2009 /  #22
I have no trouble with Polish pronunciation, except for the trilled R. I've been learning Polish for about three years and Norwegian for four, both having a similar R sound. I can pronounce it following another consonant, gr, kr, wr(vr) and fr are the easiest, dr, tr, br and pr I tend to overdo, almost as if they were Ls instead of Rs. But words beginning with R which expect a long rrrrrrrrr sound seem to be beyond my vocal grasp.

Archives - 2005-2009 / Language / ANGLOS HAVE TROUBLE WITH SZCZ, SOME WITH TRILLED 'R'Archived