DariuszTelka
23 Dec 2009
DariuszTelka
23 Dec 2009
Life / Regional traits in Poland [27]
Here's a funny map over poland I found a while ago...
Dariusz
Crap....I found a cool picture...tried to link it...but was told it was too big (max 100kb), then i resized it, tried again...but it doesn't show up....help?
Ahh...must describe the name of the picture. Sorry.
Dariusz
Here's a funny map over poland I found a while ago...
Dariusz
Crap....I found a cool picture...tried to link it...but was told it was too big (max 100kb), then i resized it, tried again...but it doesn't show up....help?
Ahh...must describe the name of the picture. Sorry.
Dariusz
DariuszTelka
27 Oct 2009
News / JEW YOUTH SHOULD CLEAN UP THEIR ACT IN POLAND [420]
I am not a holocaust denier - but what about - a holocaust sceptic or a holocaust investigator. As amateruish as they come.
I have a healthy scepticism when governments ban/incarcerate/fine people from questioning/denying/belitteling whatever they write or speak about.
If I said the earth was flat, or that the moonlanding never happened, people would just laugh at me or shake their heads. There would be no need for socalled hatelaws or hatespeech to prevent what we refer to as "holocaust-denial". I mean, if they can do this, then what else can they ban people from saying? Are we going to jail, loose our jobs or be heavily fined for saying or questioning things that society has deemed "the truth"? I know there are things that should be banned and fined like child pornography, animal cruelty etc. But a historical event, or a fact that is approved in our history books? I read stories every month about findings of old artifacts that will "change our views", or "make us rewrite the history books". Are we going to ban, fine or jail these archeologists or doctors who discover that what we have believed in all this time may not be accurate? Even if it hurts some people or may cause trauma to a whole community?
Yes, I believe the jews were persecuted for being jewish. Yes I believe they were forced into concentration camps. Yes I believe hundreds of thousands of them died, either by firing squads, hanging, hunger, tyfus, malnutrition, beatings and all the horrors war and persecution provides. I do not deny that the jewish people were targeted, persecuted and paid a high price for their religion and ethnicity.
But i have - a scepticism - for the gassing part. I have read both sides of the story and although the eyewitness accounts and books/movies that have been published in the last 40-50 years, they have yet to produce a real photograph, a real paper stating the names of the people that were gassed or time and date of when it happened. They have yet to produce a real gaschamber that qualifies in size and industrial quality to the number of victims they estimated were gassed. There is no paper, no document, no real hard evidence of actual gassing. There was even a larger amount of money on the table if somebody could prove any of the things I mentioned above. That money has yet to be claimed. I know this is a very emotional topic and I have no doctorate or professional background to discuss this topic. But if that was the case, then we couldn't really discuss anything. This forum would be dead. This is my opinion and my own reflection from the books, documents, movies and documentaries I have seen over the last 10-15 years.
People are questioning the 9/11, the kennedy assassination, the moon landing, how the pyramids were built, how the government put fluoride in our drinking water to control us, how vaccines are bad for us. We have the Katyn murders which were blamed on the Germans, we have the concentration camps in Serbia during the war in the 90's which were exposed as fakes, what was the real reason for the civil war in America, why did Martin Luther King get assassinated? These are all exciting and interesting things to read and discuss. But noone goes to jail for it! So, why is the holocaust, and the "fact", that 6 million jews were gassed a fact carved into the stone of eternity?
We know that the plaques at the Auscwitz camp have been revised three times, now standing at 1.1 million from the original 4 million. If they can do this, why can't something else be not true or excessive? We now know that the propaganda of lampshades and human soap is untrue. We know that no jews were gassed in the concentration camps on German territory. We have read many stories about witnesses that have been caught in lying about their experiences. If all these things were fake, propaganda and the "victors" tale, then why is not allowed to even question the gaschambers?
Again, if anybody here can post a photo, a written order, a list of names and the reason of death described as gassing I will accept this as the truth and get on with my other "conspiracy" theories. But as long as this has yet to be produced, there has to be freedom to talk, discuss, debate and investigate. What better proof could you get than let a crack team of scientists go into Auschwitz and make a modern, high-tech evaluation of the whole place? But this has never happened. Why?
So, don't you all get your anger flared up. I know it's not the happiest of topics, but it deserves to be out in the open, not clubbed down some poor amateurs head in a kangaroo court where as I read in the Zundel trial, the judge said; and I QUOTE; "THE TRUTH IS NO DEFENCE". Ok then.....
Why am I even discussing this? I don't know, human curiosity I guess. Will I gain anything if anything changes historically from this debate? I don't know. I have family that fought on the German, Polish, Norwegian and even the Russian side. And I have family that were killed by all of them. Just in case anybody here want's to label me anti-semite or nazi. I am neither.
Dariusz
-Who has actually been to Auschwitz three times and recognizes it was NOT DISNEYLAND.
I am not a holocaust denier - but what about - a holocaust sceptic or a holocaust investigator. As amateruish as they come.
I have a healthy scepticism when governments ban/incarcerate/fine people from questioning/denying/belitteling whatever they write or speak about.
If I said the earth was flat, or that the moonlanding never happened, people would just laugh at me or shake their heads. There would be no need for socalled hatelaws or hatespeech to prevent what we refer to as "holocaust-denial". I mean, if they can do this, then what else can they ban people from saying? Are we going to jail, loose our jobs or be heavily fined for saying or questioning things that society has deemed "the truth"? I know there are things that should be banned and fined like child pornography, animal cruelty etc. But a historical event, or a fact that is approved in our history books? I read stories every month about findings of old artifacts that will "change our views", or "make us rewrite the history books". Are we going to ban, fine or jail these archeologists or doctors who discover that what we have believed in all this time may not be accurate? Even if it hurts some people or may cause trauma to a whole community?
Yes, I believe the jews were persecuted for being jewish. Yes I believe they were forced into concentration camps. Yes I believe hundreds of thousands of them died, either by firing squads, hanging, hunger, tyfus, malnutrition, beatings and all the horrors war and persecution provides. I do not deny that the jewish people were targeted, persecuted and paid a high price for their religion and ethnicity.
But i have - a scepticism - for the gassing part. I have read both sides of the story and although the eyewitness accounts and books/movies that have been published in the last 40-50 years, they have yet to produce a real photograph, a real paper stating the names of the people that were gassed or time and date of when it happened. They have yet to produce a real gaschamber that qualifies in size and industrial quality to the number of victims they estimated were gassed. There is no paper, no document, no real hard evidence of actual gassing. There was even a larger amount of money on the table if somebody could prove any of the things I mentioned above. That money has yet to be claimed. I know this is a very emotional topic and I have no doctorate or professional background to discuss this topic. But if that was the case, then we couldn't really discuss anything. This forum would be dead. This is my opinion and my own reflection from the books, documents, movies and documentaries I have seen over the last 10-15 years.
People are questioning the 9/11, the kennedy assassination, the moon landing, how the pyramids were built, how the government put fluoride in our drinking water to control us, how vaccines are bad for us. We have the Katyn murders which were blamed on the Germans, we have the concentration camps in Serbia during the war in the 90's which were exposed as fakes, what was the real reason for the civil war in America, why did Martin Luther King get assassinated? These are all exciting and interesting things to read and discuss. But noone goes to jail for it! So, why is the holocaust, and the "fact", that 6 million jews were gassed a fact carved into the stone of eternity?
We know that the plaques at the Auscwitz camp have been revised three times, now standing at 1.1 million from the original 4 million. If they can do this, why can't something else be not true or excessive? We now know that the propaganda of lampshades and human soap is untrue. We know that no jews were gassed in the concentration camps on German territory. We have read many stories about witnesses that have been caught in lying about their experiences. If all these things were fake, propaganda and the "victors" tale, then why is not allowed to even question the gaschambers?
Again, if anybody here can post a photo, a written order, a list of names and the reason of death described as gassing I will accept this as the truth and get on with my other "conspiracy" theories. But as long as this has yet to be produced, there has to be freedom to talk, discuss, debate and investigate. What better proof could you get than let a crack team of scientists go into Auschwitz and make a modern, high-tech evaluation of the whole place? But this has never happened. Why?
So, don't you all get your anger flared up. I know it's not the happiest of topics, but it deserves to be out in the open, not clubbed down some poor amateurs head in a kangaroo court where as I read in the Zundel trial, the judge said; and I QUOTE; "THE TRUTH IS NO DEFENCE". Ok then.....
Why am I even discussing this? I don't know, human curiosity I guess. Will I gain anything if anything changes historically from this debate? I don't know. I have family that fought on the German, Polish, Norwegian and even the Russian side. And I have family that were killed by all of them. Just in case anybody here want's to label me anti-semite or nazi. I am neither.
Dariusz
-Who has actually been to Auschwitz three times and recognizes it was NOT DISNEYLAND.
DariuszTelka
18 Oct 2009
History / Ross kemp on Polish Gangs/Nazis - Untermenschen Nazis..?? [69]
I read he was born in Warszawa to a wealthy jewish family named Hitlerbaum, but after being kicked out of Hebrew "Schul", he ran into the forest where he was raised by a pack of wolves, until a austrian woodsmaster found him training the wolves to march in military formation. Full of bitterness about his father, he joined the National Socalists, changed his name and went on to become The Fuhrer. Oh, and he only had one ballsack, was blind on one eye and suffered from chronic memory lapses. Therefore he forgot his men were outside Moscow and failed to send the order to take the city. Thus losing the war.
After the war he was reunited with his family from Warszawa, and still lives there today under a different name and spends his time painting.
Hello? I am getting on Oprah now??
Dariusz
I read he was born in Warszawa to a wealthy jewish family named Hitlerbaum, but after being kicked out of Hebrew "Schul", he ran into the forest where he was raised by a pack of wolves, until a austrian woodsmaster found him training the wolves to march in military formation. Full of bitterness about his father, he joined the National Socalists, changed his name and went on to become The Fuhrer. Oh, and he only had one ballsack, was blind on one eye and suffered from chronic memory lapses. Therefore he forgot his men were outside Moscow and failed to send the order to take the city. Thus losing the war.
After the war he was reunited with his family from Warszawa, and still lives there today under a different name and spends his time painting.
Hello? I am getting on Oprah now??
Dariusz
DariuszTelka
13 Oct 2009
News / The Lisbon Treaty and land reperations [74]
Hehe..I know, I was just trying to say "wow, castle", but I've been on Gratka.pl and seen the castles that they have for sale, or mansions, and you get a frikking humongous monster of a place with a lake, towers, forest, ball-rooms, and 49 bedrooms..but after the first tickeling sensation when you see the price...maybe....3 million zloty....you think, wait, how much is it going to cost to heat up that frikking place?? And who's gonna mow the lawn...and paint the tower... But it's the thought of just being able to maybe get something like that.
Anyways, I respect Sokrates and your (MarcinK) decision not to would have tried to get anything back like that. Maybe I'm too much of an Norwegian who thinks everything is possible and that the system works for everybody. Here in Norway everyone gets everything, and nobody get nothing. But maybe Poland has a different way of life, a different way of surviving. I remember my first encounter with the Polish bureaucracy at the town hall in my hometown. There was a waiting room. We were in next. After 5 minutes the door goes up and an older man comes out yelling, "Ku**a", and slams the door. Then we hear the secretary from the office, "Next!". But it went ok. Only had to go to every office in town 3 times that week, and buy "stamps", to make documents official. At least we supported the local restaurant business with our daily breakes from the carousel called "You have to get that paper at the other office".
So, what have I learned from this thread.
- Forget about old land that your family owned.
- Poles with german ancestry might receive some negative vibes if their past is known.
- Poles with german ancestry who try to get som land back should not do this, but if they do, the system will wear you out, and your neighbours are gonna poop in your mailbox.
That's ok. I'm not gonna be a firestarter, I just need my chair and a Tyskie under a tree.
Dariusz
No I'm not mother Theresa, and no I would not want to claim a castle if I had the chance, being in construction I know what it takes to maintain a mansion and large estate, try and imagine maintaining a castle, no thanks.
Hehe..I know, I was just trying to say "wow, castle", but I've been on Gratka.pl and seen the castles that they have for sale, or mansions, and you get a frikking humongous monster of a place with a lake, towers, forest, ball-rooms, and 49 bedrooms..but after the first tickeling sensation when you see the price...maybe....3 million zloty....you think, wait, how much is it going to cost to heat up that frikking place?? And who's gonna mow the lawn...and paint the tower... But it's the thought of just being able to maybe get something like that.
Anyways, I respect Sokrates and your (MarcinK) decision not to would have tried to get anything back like that. Maybe I'm too much of an Norwegian who thinks everything is possible and that the system works for everybody. Here in Norway everyone gets everything, and nobody get nothing. But maybe Poland has a different way of life, a different way of surviving. I remember my first encounter with the Polish bureaucracy at the town hall in my hometown. There was a waiting room. We were in next. After 5 minutes the door goes up and an older man comes out yelling, "Ku**a", and slams the door. Then we hear the secretary from the office, "Next!". But it went ok. Only had to go to every office in town 3 times that week, and buy "stamps", to make documents official. At least we supported the local restaurant business with our daily breakes from the carousel called "You have to get that paper at the other office".
So, what have I learned from this thread.
- Forget about old land that your family owned.
- Poles with german ancestry might receive some negative vibes if their past is known.
- Poles with german ancestry who try to get som land back should not do this, but if they do, the system will wear you out, and your neighbours are gonna poop in your mailbox.
That's ok. I'm not gonna be a firestarter, I just need my chair and a Tyskie under a tree.
Dariusz
DariuszTelka
13 Oct 2009
News / The Lisbon Treaty and land reperations [74]
Thanks for the input...obviously this is a hornets nest. As is the participation of Norwegians in the waffen ss who came back to Norway, believing they were fighting against communism, only to be imprisoned by the new Norwegian government when they came back. It's a no no topic in Norway.
I see people have clear and hard opinions on this subject matter, so I won't bug you any more with this. If I have any rights, I will soon find out via my lawyer. If I don't, I won't really loose any nights sleep over it. I'll move to Poland anyways and pay for it with my own money. But as long as the Polish government left this door open, I have to try it. Like you would have if your grandmother told you that she owned a castle in Poland before the war, and then lost it to the government, but that you might get it back now....TELL ME YOU WOULDN'T TURN UP AND CLAIM IT......unless you are mother Theresa...
So, don't worry Sokrates...I'm not a fake person trying to stir things up. I'm the real deal, Dariusz Telka of Mikolow, Poland. Since I haven't lived in Poland my whole life, and I can't say I know the "mental state", when it comes to things of these matters, (polish/german tension/taken and lost land/the current psychology of the polish people), I might seem like an elephant in a glass house....with my maybe not so diplomatic language. But, then again, some of you haven't excatctly been to diplomatic back at me either...
Dariusz (The Racist, god hating, grandson of traitors who should be bled dry........) Wow...
Thanks for the input...obviously this is a hornets nest. As is the participation of Norwegians in the waffen ss who came back to Norway, believing they were fighting against communism, only to be imprisoned by the new Norwegian government when they came back. It's a no no topic in Norway.
I see people have clear and hard opinions on this subject matter, so I won't bug you any more with this. If I have any rights, I will soon find out via my lawyer. If I don't, I won't really loose any nights sleep over it. I'll move to Poland anyways and pay for it with my own money. But as long as the Polish government left this door open, I have to try it. Like you would have if your grandmother told you that she owned a castle in Poland before the war, and then lost it to the government, but that you might get it back now....TELL ME YOU WOULDN'T TURN UP AND CLAIM IT......unless you are mother Theresa...
So, don't worry Sokrates...I'm not a fake person trying to stir things up. I'm the real deal, Dariusz Telka of Mikolow, Poland. Since I haven't lived in Poland my whole life, and I can't say I know the "mental state", when it comes to things of these matters, (polish/german tension/taken and lost land/the current psychology of the polish people), I might seem like an elephant in a glass house....with my maybe not so diplomatic language. But, then again, some of you haven't excatctly been to diplomatic back at me either...
Dariusz (The Racist, god hating, grandson of traitors who should be bled dry........) Wow...
DariuszTelka
13 Oct 2009
News / The Lisbon Treaty and land reperations [74]
These are easy words to write from behind a computer screen...
If you have german ancestry and live in a country that is now called Poland, rather than Germany. Things are going ok, neighbours are friendly and life goes on. People resettle, start over again and so on. Many a border and town has found itself under new rule and new states. Should you move everytime this happens? Look at the map of Europe and it's history, you will find millions of "diaspora", living in bordertowns, close to their old countries. But they stay put. It's their land, maybe they don't even care which country it's in. They have long traditions, generations have been born, lived and died on that land. One day a war breakes out. You haven't made a decision. You speak a dialect that is not your current states official language, you keep your traditions, but your "new" state wants you to fight for them, against your "family's" old country. You are torn between the two...they will both shot you if you don't join them. Which side do you choose? Are you anti-communist? Pro Nazi? A patriot to your own country, but don't like the current governement? it's 1939 and you hear a knock on the door.... they have made the decision for you. Your kids and wife are crying and afraid.
I don't know. I'm saying "delphiandomine" is very tough, and says "TRAITOR"! But how can you know when you haven't been there, when your family is not on the line, when you can't choose? Death before dishonour? That's a movie...survival is real life.
Dariusz
He was a traitor, through and through. A true patriot would die for their country - and in such times, choosing to sign the list rather than die for their country was nothing but cowardice.
These are easy words to write from behind a computer screen...
If you have german ancestry and live in a country that is now called Poland, rather than Germany. Things are going ok, neighbours are friendly and life goes on. People resettle, start over again and so on. Many a border and town has found itself under new rule and new states. Should you move everytime this happens? Look at the map of Europe and it's history, you will find millions of "diaspora", living in bordertowns, close to their old countries. But they stay put. It's their land, maybe they don't even care which country it's in. They have long traditions, generations have been born, lived and died on that land. One day a war breakes out. You haven't made a decision. You speak a dialect that is not your current states official language, you keep your traditions, but your "new" state wants you to fight for them, against your "family's" old country. You are torn between the two...they will both shot you if you don't join them. Which side do you choose? Are you anti-communist? Pro Nazi? A patriot to your own country, but don't like the current governement? it's 1939 and you hear a knock on the door.... they have made the decision for you. Your kids and wife are crying and afraid.
I don't know. I'm saying "delphiandomine" is very tough, and says "TRAITOR"! But how can you know when you haven't been there, when your family is not on the line, when you can't choose? Death before dishonour? That's a movie...survival is real life.
Dariusz
DariuszTelka
13 Oct 2009
News / The Lisbon Treaty and land reperations [74]
I see some trolls came out here on this thread. So I'm a "Racist", "sick man", "traitor", "God hating", and my lawyer should bleed me dry...maybe somebody needs a hug?
Maybe I should make a few things clear; I am moving BACK to poland in the next few years. Setting up a new life, finding work and a place to live, has to be done before I actually move. I have been living in Norway since 1977, and have no ties whatsoever with Poland besides my family coming from Poland. As for what kind of compensation I should get, I have no clue. I would like the land BACK! But I don't want to throw anyone out either, so if the goverment can give me some kind of compensation for the land, I can take that and buy land SOMEWHERE ELSE. It was MY FAMILYS LAND! I don't care if the regime was communist, national socalist or from MARS! Are you saying that you would refuse the survivors of the holocaust any claims they might have because it was a different regime back then? The German banks would be very happy to hear your argument.. Germany, Switzerland, Austria and even Norway have paid BILLIONS OF DOLLARS in reperations for what "they did". Why shouldn't Poland do the same? Two wrongs don't make a right! If jews can claim money becasue their grandfather had to work in a factory, or lost their paintings, then I can claim my familys farm back. Which government who took it, under which regime, I don't care. Today you have a right to claim it back, and I will.
About the land I'm talking about in Bydgoszcz. My great grandfather was shot by RUSSIANS while on the farm alone. He walked on his knees because he was a cripple. A russian family then settled there. My great grandmother was in Katowice visiting family. She relocated there after this happened. In the 80's my family went there to see how it looked. When the owner saw my family on "his" property, he ran across the fields to the neighbour. Nothing more happened then. Since then both my grandmother and my father have passed away, and I found all the paperwork on these matters.
When it comes to my "traitor" granfathers as 1jola so eloquently puts it, you didn't really have a choice back then. The germans saw Slask at "german" territory, and anyone who had german ancestry or was decided to be "Volksdeutsche", would be forced to either join, or be shot. Another member of my family got shot in front of his pregnant wife because he refused. My grandfathers did what any sane man with a wife and kid would do, try to survive. To call somebody like that a traitor shows that your hatred and animosity to a big part of the polish people of today with my history. I am, and feel, as much Polish as you do. Yes, I come from a part of Poland that has a German/Polish history, so automatically I come from a family of traitors? Good luck with that theory next time you are in the Slask region....
As for my claim on my familys property that was taken from them, if the government in Poland hadn't opened for this, then I would have no case...so if you are angry, take it up with the Seijm.
Dariusz
I see some trolls came out here on this thread. So I'm a "Racist", "sick man", "traitor", "God hating", and my lawyer should bleed me dry...maybe somebody needs a hug?
Maybe I should make a few things clear; I am moving BACK to poland in the next few years. Setting up a new life, finding work and a place to live, has to be done before I actually move. I have been living in Norway since 1977, and have no ties whatsoever with Poland besides my family coming from Poland. As for what kind of compensation I should get, I have no clue. I would like the land BACK! But I don't want to throw anyone out either, so if the goverment can give me some kind of compensation for the land, I can take that and buy land SOMEWHERE ELSE. It was MY FAMILYS LAND! I don't care if the regime was communist, national socalist or from MARS! Are you saying that you would refuse the survivors of the holocaust any claims they might have because it was a different regime back then? The German banks would be very happy to hear your argument.. Germany, Switzerland, Austria and even Norway have paid BILLIONS OF DOLLARS in reperations for what "they did". Why shouldn't Poland do the same? Two wrongs don't make a right! If jews can claim money becasue their grandfather had to work in a factory, or lost their paintings, then I can claim my familys farm back. Which government who took it, under which regime, I don't care. Today you have a right to claim it back, and I will.
About the land I'm talking about in Bydgoszcz. My great grandfather was shot by RUSSIANS while on the farm alone. He walked on his knees because he was a cripple. A russian family then settled there. My great grandmother was in Katowice visiting family. She relocated there after this happened. In the 80's my family went there to see how it looked. When the owner saw my family on "his" property, he ran across the fields to the neighbour. Nothing more happened then. Since then both my grandmother and my father have passed away, and I found all the paperwork on these matters.
When it comes to my "traitor" granfathers as 1jola so eloquently puts it, you didn't really have a choice back then. The germans saw Slask at "german" territory, and anyone who had german ancestry or was decided to be "Volksdeutsche", would be forced to either join, or be shot. Another member of my family got shot in front of his pregnant wife because he refused. My grandfathers did what any sane man with a wife and kid would do, try to survive. To call somebody like that a traitor shows that your hatred and animosity to a big part of the polish people of today with my history. I am, and feel, as much Polish as you do. Yes, I come from a part of Poland that has a German/Polish history, so automatically I come from a family of traitors? Good luck with that theory next time you are in the Slask region....
As for my claim on my familys property that was taken from them, if the government in Poland hadn't opened for this, then I would have no case...so if you are angry, take it up with the Seijm.
Dariusz
DariuszTelka
12 Oct 2009
News / The Lisbon Treaty and land reperations [74]
gjene;
Thanks! That is the kind of information I was looking for. I will read it all and talk it over with my lawyer!
Dariusz
gjene;
Thanks! That is the kind of information I was looking for. I will read it all and talk it over with my lawyer!
Dariusz
DariuszTelka
12 Oct 2009
News / The Lisbon Treaty and land reperations [74]
Because I don't have to if it's already mine. My family owns land. Government steals it. New government comes in telling you can ask for it back. I take it back. I don't see the problem here.
Besides, do you know how much a 100 hectars of land costs nowadays? Especially now that Poland are in the EU and all the european companies are investing in land. Why would I want to buy another piece of land? Where would I get all that money from? What if the new government in the future takes THAT land away from me. And my grandson wants it back one day....or should he ALSO buy NEW land...wow, I'm getting dizzy...
The point is, it's my land, I want it back. If someone stole your car...wouldn't you want it back..even if it was ten years later? (let's say it was a ford mustang). ;-)
Dariusz
If you must have to have a farm in Poland why not buy some land there and settle?
Because I don't have to if it's already mine. My family owns land. Government steals it. New government comes in telling you can ask for it back. I take it back. I don't see the problem here.
Besides, do you know how much a 100 hectars of land costs nowadays? Especially now that Poland are in the EU and all the european companies are investing in land. Why would I want to buy another piece of land? Where would I get all that money from? What if the new government in the future takes THAT land away from me. And my grandson wants it back one day....or should he ALSO buy NEW land...wow, I'm getting dizzy...
The point is, it's my land, I want it back. If someone stole your car...wouldn't you want it back..even if it was ten years later? (let's say it was a ford mustang). ;-)
Dariusz
DariuszTelka
12 Oct 2009
News / The Lisbon Treaty and land reperations [74]
Both my grandparents sides were polish citizens. I have all the paperwork, the birth certificates, the wedding certificates etc. But both my grandfathers had to serve in the German army, (we come from Gdansk and Katowice). So when the German army turned up at the door with the "request" to join, you joined, or were shot/put in jail.
I know it's a long time ago, but just because it's been a while, doesn't make it right. The government seized the land from my family, and many others. It was the government that got the money and sold it on to the next people. I am not interested in turning up at the doorstep and saying; get out, it's my familys house. If I can get todays rate for the property, from the government, that's ok. The people who live there today probably have nothing to do with the landgrab. So the government took the land and the money, now they have to give it back. Fair and square.
My family worked hard to get that farm. It is my duty as the last living heir to claim that land. I can't let bygones be bygones. If that is how the world worked, then all the governments could just take land from people and that was that.
MareGaea; I just wrote what the norwegian newspaper wrote, and they wrote that he didn't want to sign because they were afraid of massive reperation claims from germans who were kicked out....but of course, there are always things we don't know and political games that has to be played before things go through.
Dariusz
Both my grandparents sides were polish citizens. I have all the paperwork, the birth certificates, the wedding certificates etc. But both my grandfathers had to serve in the German army, (we come from Gdansk and Katowice). So when the German army turned up at the door with the "request" to join, you joined, or were shot/put in jail.
I know it's a long time ago, but just because it's been a while, doesn't make it right. The government seized the land from my family, and many others. It was the government that got the money and sold it on to the next people. I am not interested in turning up at the doorstep and saying; get out, it's my familys house. If I can get todays rate for the property, from the government, that's ok. The people who live there today probably have nothing to do with the landgrab. So the government took the land and the money, now they have to give it back. Fair and square.
My family worked hard to get that farm. It is my duty as the last living heir to claim that land. I can't let bygones be bygones. If that is how the world worked, then all the governments could just take land from people and that was that.
MareGaea; I just wrote what the norwegian newspaper wrote, and they wrote that he didn't want to sign because they were afraid of massive reperation claims from germans who were kicked out....but of course, there are always things we don't know and political games that has to be played before things go through.
Dariusz
DariuszTelka
11 Oct 2009
News / The Lisbon Treaty and land reperations [74]
I was just reading an article in an Norwegian newspaper that stated that The Czech president Klaus was unwilling to sign the Lisbon treaty because of the backlash of Germans who would claim reperations for lost land after the second world war.
I am actually in the beginning phase of looking at old land and houses that my family lost during and after the war. My father passed away some years ago and I have a huge pile of papers that he had in the basement. When me and my mother went through all these papers, we found papers that stated that "The polish governement has taken control of this land...etc", we also found papers that russians took a farm from my great great grandfather (They shot him on his farm and took it). So I have found papers that both the the polish government and the russians took my familys property. My family still lived in Poland after the war, but I have found no paper that they claimed it back.
Now that Poland has signed the treaty, does anybody here have any knowledge about the opening for reperations for lost land? I know millions of ethnic germans had to leave the Czech republic and their belongings, having to walk to Germany with just what they could carry. Imagine the potentially enormous claims these ethnic germans may come with against the Czech republic.
This then also has to apply to Poland and what the ethnic germans/poles lost when the borders were moved. We are talking about billions of Euro's here. I know that my great great grandfather had over a 100 hectars of land in Bydgoszcz that the russians took. The value of this piece of land will not be a couple of hundred thousand zlotys...but in the million(s).
So I have hired a lawyer to look at these matters, and he was not dismissive when he heard what we had to tell him.
Anyone here want to put their 5 cents in....I need more information! :-)
Dariusz
I was just reading an article in an Norwegian newspaper that stated that The Czech president Klaus was unwilling to sign the Lisbon treaty because of the backlash of Germans who would claim reperations for lost land after the second world war.
I am actually in the beginning phase of looking at old land and houses that my family lost during and after the war. My father passed away some years ago and I have a huge pile of papers that he had in the basement. When me and my mother went through all these papers, we found papers that stated that "The polish governement has taken control of this land...etc", we also found papers that russians took a farm from my great great grandfather (They shot him on his farm and took it). So I have found papers that both the the polish government and the russians took my familys property. My family still lived in Poland after the war, but I have found no paper that they claimed it back.
Now that Poland has signed the treaty, does anybody here have any knowledge about the opening for reperations for lost land? I know millions of ethnic germans had to leave the Czech republic and their belongings, having to walk to Germany with just what they could carry. Imagine the potentially enormous claims these ethnic germans may come with against the Czech republic.
This then also has to apply to Poland and what the ethnic germans/poles lost when the borders were moved. We are talking about billions of Euro's here. I know that my great great grandfather had over a 100 hectars of land in Bydgoszcz that the russians took. The value of this piece of land will not be a couple of hundred thousand zlotys...but in the million(s).
So I have hired a lawyer to look at these matters, and he was not dismissive when he heard what we had to tell him.
Anyone here want to put their 5 cents in....I need more information! :-)
Dariusz
DariuszTelka
11 Oct 2009
History / Matters of Propaganda...Or: how was the West portrayed in Poland? [150]
First a little story...
I moved to Norway when I was 3 years old, (why do I start my threads with that...), and I remember some things from back then, when I would go back to Poland with my father. (My parents split up, me living with my mother in Norway, and my father in Germany). During summer I would go to Germany to stay with my father for summer vacation. We would fill up the car with food and gifts and head for the East German border. There my father would give the guard a box of sigarettes, maybe some dollars, and we would be on our way faster than if he wouldn't have given them to him. My first memory is standing at the border crossing between West and East and seeing the kids from the neighbourhood standing up against the fence on their bikes. I remember the grey buildings, the uncut grass and how skinny the kids looked. Myself, I sat there with my comic book, my walk-man and my violet milka chocolade and look at them, and they would look back at me. I would wonder what they thought of me. I also asked my dad if i could go up to them and talk, but he said no. (Maybe the guard with the kalashnikov and the German sheperd dog had something to do with it).
In Poland my father would give everybody gifts and presents and I would eventually give my friends on the street in the town were we lived all my comics and whatever I brought. It made me quite popular, but also made me feel good. The thing is, I would say I had just as good time, maybe even a little better time with my polish friends, than I would have with my norwegian friends back home in Oslo. There was a real good atmosphere among us kids in the street that I really liked. I have to say that my family on the Polish side were above average income-wise and had a nice house and a western made car. (Woooo). But they still had to stand in line like everyone else in the morning for milk and bread. I remember I asked what my cousin got up so early for, and he told me because of food for breakfast. One day, waiting in line, he passed out and hit his head on the floor and lost all his front teeth, so to this day he has dentures. (he's only 36).
There were many stories like this, and all of you who have family in Poland, or had can ask them about all of this.
Coming back from this vacation (Usually a whole month in Poland), I would get back to school and we would all get the assignement to write what we did on our vacations that summer. I remember I had to read out my eassay to the rest of the norwegian school class. In it I wrote that Poland was not such a bad place, that my family lived in a big house, had a western made car and had bikes and games just like us. But I also remember the feeling of trying to defend it, because the general atmosphere was that eastern europe was backward and communist. I had to try to persuade my classmates that I didn't came from a backward country. Yes it was poorer, but somehow it was still ok.
Today, however, it is another story. When you go to eastern european countries you see beautiful architecture, you see clean streets, you get nice food. As for Poland, it has become so "modern", I am actually planning to move there within the next 5 years. I would never have thought about this if Poland could not give me an my family the life that we have gotten used to here in Norway. I even met a Nowegian firefighter here in my city, who met a Polish woman. They are in the process of buying a house in the town where she comes from and eventually moving there. And this is a settled norwegian with a good job doing this. He would't have if Poland was such a bad place.
I think Poland was the country closest to "the west", under communism. We weren't real communists, just living under their rule. Life went along normally, and money and western goods could be had for money or the right connections. As was with my family. I remember I would drink Pepsi and watch Robocop in my uncles house. Or play on the Atari at their neighbours house. Not much different form my life in Norway. But for my classmates, I had to tell them, convince them, that it wasn't as bad a sometimes portrayed in articles and movies.
Dariusz
First a little story...
I moved to Norway when I was 3 years old, (why do I start my threads with that...), and I remember some things from back then, when I would go back to Poland with my father. (My parents split up, me living with my mother in Norway, and my father in Germany). During summer I would go to Germany to stay with my father for summer vacation. We would fill up the car with food and gifts and head for the East German border. There my father would give the guard a box of sigarettes, maybe some dollars, and we would be on our way faster than if he wouldn't have given them to him. My first memory is standing at the border crossing between West and East and seeing the kids from the neighbourhood standing up against the fence on their bikes. I remember the grey buildings, the uncut grass and how skinny the kids looked. Myself, I sat there with my comic book, my walk-man and my violet milka chocolade and look at them, and they would look back at me. I would wonder what they thought of me. I also asked my dad if i could go up to them and talk, but he said no. (Maybe the guard with the kalashnikov and the German sheperd dog had something to do with it).
In Poland my father would give everybody gifts and presents and I would eventually give my friends on the street in the town were we lived all my comics and whatever I brought. It made me quite popular, but also made me feel good. The thing is, I would say I had just as good time, maybe even a little better time with my polish friends, than I would have with my norwegian friends back home in Oslo. There was a real good atmosphere among us kids in the street that I really liked. I have to say that my family on the Polish side were above average income-wise and had a nice house and a western made car. (Woooo). But they still had to stand in line like everyone else in the morning for milk and bread. I remember I asked what my cousin got up so early for, and he told me because of food for breakfast. One day, waiting in line, he passed out and hit his head on the floor and lost all his front teeth, so to this day he has dentures. (he's only 36).
There were many stories like this, and all of you who have family in Poland, or had can ask them about all of this.
Coming back from this vacation (Usually a whole month in Poland), I would get back to school and we would all get the assignement to write what we did on our vacations that summer. I remember I had to read out my eassay to the rest of the norwegian school class. In it I wrote that Poland was not such a bad place, that my family lived in a big house, had a western made car and had bikes and games just like us. But I also remember the feeling of trying to defend it, because the general atmosphere was that eastern europe was backward and communist. I had to try to persuade my classmates that I didn't came from a backward country. Yes it was poorer, but somehow it was still ok.
Today, however, it is another story. When you go to eastern european countries you see beautiful architecture, you see clean streets, you get nice food. As for Poland, it has become so "modern", I am actually planning to move there within the next 5 years. I would never have thought about this if Poland could not give me an my family the life that we have gotten used to here in Norway. I even met a Nowegian firefighter here in my city, who met a Polish woman. They are in the process of buying a house in the town where she comes from and eventually moving there. And this is a settled norwegian with a good job doing this. He would't have if Poland was such a bad place.
I think Poland was the country closest to "the west", under communism. We weren't real communists, just living under their rule. Life went along normally, and money and western goods could be had for money or the right connections. As was with my family. I remember I would drink Pepsi and watch Robocop in my uncles house. Or play on the Atari at their neighbours house. Not much different form my life in Norway. But for my classmates, I had to tell them, convince them, that it wasn't as bad a sometimes portrayed in articles and movies.
Dariusz