Language / Polish and Russian - learning by a beginner [30]

If it didn't depend on practical reasons (visiting a country soon), I'd go for Russian first. I find it a better introduction to Slavic languages, from which to take the next step and start Polish instead. But it really doesn't matter so much - you'll have to learn the peculiarities of Slavic languages with whatever you choose as your first language, then you'll apply your new "feel for Slavic" to the others.

If you have a grasp of Russian pronunciation, pay extra attention to the pairs of hard-soft "sibilants" and "affricates" in Polish:

cz - ć (ci)
sz - ś (si)
ż (rz) - ź(zi)

In Russian you only get ч (soft), ш, ж (hard) and щ (soft, and different from Polish "szcz").

While Russian has a complete set of "hardening/softening" vowels (I mean, they affect the previous consonant), а э ы о у vs. я е и ё ю, in Polish only "i" does it, "e" does not. In Russian especially д and т are very affected by softening - in Polish they have "softened" further and gone into "dzi" and "ci" respectively: Russian тебя Polish ciebie; Russian дети Polish dzieci.

Language / How does Polish sound to you? How to make Polish sound more pleasurable? [100]


No, the harshness and hardness of German was widely known before Hitler was born (or so I like to think!).


Sweden Swedish sounds funny, as if every syllable were stressed; Finland Swedish sounds dull; Danish sounds just crazy.

But then I am biased.

Language / Polish Language Pronunciation - Example Words and Phrases [178]


These are all cases that I said earlier: "ci", when not followed by a vowel, is not equal to ć but to ć + i.

Language / Polish Language Pronunciation - Example Words and Phrases [178]

Thank you OsiedleRuda and kioko.


The grammars say that ci, when not followed by a vowel, also has an "i" sound, as if it would be a (sorry for the spelling) "ći" - so there is that difference between znać and śmieci.

But what about ci followed by a vowel: is ciągle pronounced different from a (made-up and again wrongly spelled, sorry) "ćągle"?


Oh, isn't the rz in that place name pronounced sz (end of the word)?


The "problem" is that Wikipedia, as all grammars I have come across, say that ć/ci, ś/si, ź/zi, ż/rz, u/ó are all pairs of identical sounds...

Language / Polish Language Pronunciation - Example Words and Phrases [178]

Merged: ć versus ci: pronunciation

Everywhere I read that ć and ci are just different ways to write the same sound according to orthographic rules, but they are pronounced absolutely the same (like ó - u; ż - rz).

But a couple of Polish people tell me that one of them is softer than the other.

So where is the truth?

P.s. No, I am *not* asking about ć/ci vs. cz; I also *do* know when to write ć and when ci instead.

Language / 'Gateway' slavic language? [54]

[/quote]
I'm exactly of the same idea. Have an "easy" and regular case system taken from the actual languages and we can talk about it.

Language / 'Gateway' slavic language? [54]

I guess it's mainly for speaking. The idea would be that you (Slavic or not) can talk with Slavic people from different countries and more or less understand each other.

But apart from knowing the name Slovio and having read some of that website, I know nothing. I personally find the case system of Slavic languages beautiful, while Slovio, trying to be an easy language, hasn't got declinations at all (apart from a strange "to" case).

Language / 'Gateway' slavic language? [54]


I agree with Russian being a good choice for first language.

Surely the simplest gateway to Slavic languages would be... Slovio! ;-)

(no, I am not really advocating studying Slovio first. They say learning Esperanto makes learning other Western European languages much easier, but I hate conlangs)

Language / How do little children know that they should say "mamo" rather than "mama"? [23]


Luckily.

Life / Who drinks more: Poles or Russians? [50]

Just yesterday I watched an Estonian film about Finnish men looking for "real women" in Tallinn - at home they had "men" as wives.

Life / Who drinks more: Poles or Russians? [50]

Well, if Finns are known even in Russia (!) for their drinking, there must be a reason...

Life / Who is your favourite polish writer? [15]

Gunter Grass ;-)

Language / Does this look right? (Cases reference); co? kto?/ czego? kogo? [8]


I think Lefty only wrote the "basic meaning" without prepositions - apart from locative, which doesn't exist without prepositions (right?).
Otherwise he should write two pages on the uses of the genitive...

Language / Does this look right? (Cases reference); co? kto?/ czego? kogo? [8]

I know this is just the "typical" use of each case and without prepositions, but I'd add the instrumental in the "nominal predicate" (?): on jest doktorem/bratem Marka.

Remember that the locative is only for "static locations": to be somewhere vs. to go somewhere.

Genitive czego? kogo? I'd translate "of what/whom?"

Dative czemu? komu? means "to (for) what/whom?"

Language / Anyone use "SERWUS"? [46]



I'd be very worried in your case. Though in football a good running speed is good.

Language / Why są, why not jest?? [32]

Native English speakers probably have no problem with "The Netherlands", the "United States", which are, as opposed to England (United Kingdom), Poland, Belgium - each of these is.

EDIT: still, why haven't Polish gone the Russian route (Италия) instead of a plural... Włochy? ;-)

Language / Anyone use "SERWUS"? [46]

Slightly OT:


The meaning of the word 'servus' was taken in medieval times by the word "sclavus" (from Slavus, Slav), which in today's Italian is "schiavo" (skiawo). From the Venetian version of the same word comes Italian "ciao" (czao = cześć).

Language / Polish dictionary that included English pronunciation [11]

My dream online dictionary would be a "learner's grammatical dictionary", like the Russian Dictionary Tree at russian.dmll.cornell.edu/rdt/index.htm (*)

This Russian dictionary gives for most words complete declinations or conjugations and often example sentences to show what prepositions and cases to use.

I guess there is nothing like this for Polish, is there?

(*) sorry for the link not working, it seems I am not trusted yet here (no 2 useful messages yet).


Oh, the dictionary at polish.slavic.pitt.edu does exactly this. You get declination tables for nouns, adjectives, pronouns, and conjugation tables for verbs.

The dictionary is found here: polish.slavic.pitt.edu/~swan/beta/

Language / Kids languages for mixed couples ? [26]

I can't but agree with mafketis. I was brought up in my mother's country, but my father's language was spoken at home. Needless to say, the country's language became my real native language - playground and friend were the one single most important factor.

One day - I might have been 8-9 years old - I was talking to my father and I had to use an expression like "the month after September" as I had forgotten how to say October. If I still remember it it means I was quite embarassed.

At ten years of age we moved to my father's country and I switched "native" language to my father's one sooner than I switched currencies in my head.