News / Does Poland count in Europe or is it ignored? [427]

Well, mate, I don't know what your problem is, but perhaps I will get it at some point.
Some more detailed feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Let me put in in some simple words:

1.) Germany doesn't give a **** about the re-union 20 years ago. There will be some more or less forced celebrations with some politicians - that's it. I can only invite you to come here and have a look around: nobody cares. Really.

And on the other hand we have that funny Polish reaction about a EU video about the fall of the Iron Curtain that REALLY nobody cares about - but Mr. Jan Tombinski.

We only had a hand full of newspaper articles about that "so important video" here in Germany.

welt.de/politik/article3761459/EU-Video-zum-Mauerfall-Jubilaeum-erzuernt-die-Polen.html

I can only invite you to come to Germany and talk with the ppl. about that "great historical event in 1989" - you may get one big yaaaawwn.

Arcandor, Daimler, Deutsche Bank: those things are in the focus of the ppl.and the economic development - nearly nothing else.

I repeat: Nearly nobody cares about history here in Western Europe.

PS: that bottle of Whiskey sounds like a good idea ;)

News / Does Poland count in Europe or is it ignored? [427]

Exuse me; I don't want to insult anyone here. I am really sorry if I did!!!

No, I mean: of COURSE the world has NOT forgotten about George Bush, and you are totally right he will go down in history as the worst president.

I have to replace "forget" with "put aside" and "move on" without thinking about the past.

I wanted to express that we don't hold Bush against the USA anymore and moved on. History is history. There is Obama now and the world will quickly put aside about the things that happened.

News / Does Poland count in Europe or is it ignored? [427]

Really quick and to make it clear: I DON'T think that this ignorance is a good thing.
I THINK that there should be a time to remember. And the Polish role to actually FREE THE WORLD is bitterly ignored in a way.

But that is simply the way it is!
It is not meant as an insult!!!

So as a conclusion western Europe DOESN'T UNDERSTAND when Poland demands some respect for historical events - we simply don't have that historically perspective anymore (as I explained: we HAD TO GET RID OF the historical perspective to move on as a unity at some point).

As I said: even Germany itself has totally forgotten about our OWN "heroes" in 1989 finally ending the SED and Stasi. There is no monument about that anywhere. We don't even have a movie about that. Only one day without work - but nobody cares about that anymore.

More than that: most of the young ppl. don't even know about the DDR (eastern Germany) anymore.

History is less and less important in the EU (contrary to the Arabic countries by the way...think about that)

News / Does Poland count in Europe or is it ignored? [427]

lesser

Exactly: Look at England and the political scandal going on there. Those immoral standards the politicians showed by using tax money to buy f.e. porn movies for private use or other useless things, do in fact NOT corrupt the reputation of England - or Great Britain as one NATION, but only affects the view at the Labour party and "the politicians" as a typical profession with lots of corruption no matter in what country you are.

So the English will surely NOT feel any anger if - let say - Germany would make some jokes about the inferiority of the English politicians. They would perhaps say: "You are 100% right!" and go on with their business.

Or look for example at the good old "Monty Python" comedy crew as one of the most prominent CULTURAL British export worldwide who ironically spoof about ANYTHING that cold be described as "typically British culture" and thereby created another cultural aspect that ADDED something to the respect the world is giving Great Britain now...I do believe by the way that the German lack of self-humor is one big debility we have.

No, I am sure that the western political professionals are in no way better than any other politicians at all - and the lack of moral standards and cultural degeneration is one global development. Far from it: I think Poland do have some new and fresh seriousness when it comes to political things most western states have long lost or put beside until it seems to be really necessary to get political active again - like it was viewable in the USA with the Obama phenomenon.

Look at the EU-voting where we roughly had a 40% attendance in Germany which is by the way another typical aspect of an old democracy: the RIGHT for NOT voting is perhaps THE MOST important right coming to democracy, because it is somehow a democratic way to criticize or even REJECT democracy! Or in other words: the freedom NOT to care at all is the biggest freedom to care for.

Conclusion: Poland is one great cultural country with one of the strongest political engaged people in the world. We haven't forget Solidarność at all in Germany - but well...as I said: there are more important things right now than to think about the past.

And then there is the typical European ignorance again...most ppl. in Europe f.e. doesn't even care about world war 2 anymore - unlike the USA and Poland, where the emotional involvement is still much stronger. Europe moved on in that way because France and Germany for example, but also England and Russia realized that the economic strength and friendship can only benefit those countries so they put beside for example the "Erbfeindschaft" that was vital for over 400 years between France and Germany. I can remember my first visit in France in the early 80ies when many French ppl. still spit right in front of me when they heard me talk in German. Those days are 100% gone now - in less than 20 years. And it was ONLY possible, because we both decided to simply put those things aside about world war 2 (not FORGET) - and France had to suffer massively under the Germans, too. Love and friendship can only grow, if you are able to forget the bitter past and move on - IF you WISH to have love and friendship. That is one decision that must be made at some point. France, Russia, Great Britain, Holland, Norway...they could put MILLIONS of things into account to still hate Germany. But when I am walking to the streets of Hamburg these days and see hundreds of Russians buying very expensive things in our French designer stores and having some parties together with us in our clubs I feel great that they finally put aside that Germany actually killed 20 millions of their sons in a war that is 60 years gone now (which is not as long as it sounds)..as horrible and sad it really is.

Yes, Europe has forgotten Poland's role in the fall of the Iron Curtain very badly!!!

But Europe has ALSO 100% forgotten the role of Hungary in the fall of he Iron Curtain!

And I tell you what: WESTERN Germany has TOTALLY forgotten the roll of the Eastern German brave people, all of the DEATHS, the torture of them, the role of the church and all the great and peaceful things happening in the years before eastern Germany was finally free!!!!

Believe it or not: about 40% of German children DOESN'T EVEN KNOW ANYMORE that there was one eastern and western part of Germany! Nobody really cares about that anymore. We do care about General Motors, AIG, DEUTSCHE BANK, Porsche, VW, BWM and all those things...but history is totally forgotten. Same in England, France, Holland, Belgium, Austria...etc.

Perhaps that may explain to you, dear Polish people, why western Europe is always so MASSIVELY shocked - and yes, we ARE shocked! - when Poland comes with some historical facts into the debate...we don't do that anymore since the middle of the 70ies - early 80ies.

Conclusion: Ignorance is one common state in the EU.

And by the way: the world has forgotten George Bush really quickly, too - don't you think? But the USA is still the USA...funny, ain't it?

News / Does Poland count in Europe or is it ignored? [427]

Thanks, mate! English football is the best! And the beer...:)

News / Does Poland count in Europe or is it ignored? [427]

Hello, kind neighbors! First of all: I like Poland. I like the nature, the culture and the friendly people. My parents went on vacation in Poland some times and were really happy there.

Second: Yes, I indeed do believe that Poland generally acts like an "up-growing child" that suddenly realizes after its first day in highschool, that there are some much larger, much richer and much more important guys in school, than it self.

I think that experience is part of growing up: realizing, that others DO mock you, that others DO make fun of you, that other DON'T pay attention at all at you, that others laugh at you...JUST LIKE THE FIRST DAY IN HIGHSCHOOL. But you are just as much important as the others - because you are part of that class, of that school. And perhaps after some time some other class member starts liking you?

Rule number one in this "crazy highschool" called EU is: GDP matters - that means: economic power, MONEY is important. Nothing more.

That can be condemned - you may say:"What about culture? What about our role in history?"

Well, coming to that, ITALY should be the country crying loudest with his Roman Empire - or France, with all its culture.

But the EU is one mean, ungrateful thing where NEARLY everything is about money.

Take a look at the French: many, many countries make horrible jokes about France. England hates them, the USA hates them. Germany sometimes laughs about the French.

So?
I tell you what: France doesn't give a **** about the other countries! They are relaxed, doing their own thing...knowing what they have achieved and what they are able to do.

And after all those horrible jokes and mocking Germany is nevertheless a friend of France and we can meet on vacation and have some wonderful time together (before we start to make ugly jokes about each other again!)

Or take Italy: a nearly bankrupt country the western world more or less doesn't care about at all. There are so many ugly jokes about Italian people. Their President is one running joke. The Italian people KNOW how the world thinks about them...AND THEY DON'T care! Because the don't DEFINE themselves through the "respect" others are granting them! That is another thing: demanding RESPECT is something no western country would do. Because being a "grown-up" democratic country means being relaxed and self conscious about the things one can do and one CAN'T do, too!.

Speaking for Germany: we do know we will never ever have he financial power of the USA, China or in the coming years India. And we don't have a problem with that - as long as "our house" - meaning the interior social stability - is working.

Perhaps Italy sometimes DREAMS about being an important country again - but for what reason? No Italian citizen REALLY pays attention about the image of their country: solving the internal problems comes first. Who cares about what Germany, the French, England or the rest of the world thinks about Italy?

And take a look at the USA: Germany owes the USA EVERYTHING coming to the years after WW2. And what did we give the USA under Bush? Pure HATE. Just like the French. Or any other western country that really believed in the human rights and the falsehood of the Iraki war.

And the USA? They didn't care! "That is OLD Europe!" You remember those words?

So my conclusion: laugh about your country - like every western country does! - Laugh about your own politicians (or even hate them - like the Germans do hate their own politicians!) - like every western country does! Be happy when NO ONE really cares about you because that puts you out of focus (like Spain and the problem with the Basks). Or be proud if you having achieved something nice and your neighbors stop laughing about you just for some seconds in history (perhaps after winning the FIFA worldcup).

Look: I KNOW that as a German on vacation (for example) the French sometimes make jokes about us. So do we about the French! - just like the rest of the world!! I know that the English still think we are all Nazis - but we don't care! We say: "Hello!" and drink some beer with the English and everything is fine again. And the English HATE the French - and the French HATE the English. But that "hate" is in one family-like matter, nothing really serious...and no one really cares about that.

Or Holland: BOY !!!- what a relationship to Holland Germany has! All those jokes and disrespectful stuff! But it is like a family: at the end of the day Holland is our brother and we can sing and laugh TOGETHER without being REALLY angry about those really harsh jokes.

Let me say: welcome, to the free and sometimes crazy western world - where everybody doesn't give a thing about the achievements of the other and plays dirty jokes about the other country and people...just like in one big, big family. But we are STILL one family. And just like in one family the guy who brings in most of the money has the last word to speak.

And that is maybe China or the USA on global scale and at the moment Germany in the EU - which doesn't prevent the rest of Europe to make some ugly jokes about Germany or (like England) saying (and BELIEVE!) that ALL of us are still Nazis. And we don't care - because that is the way it ALWAYS WAS in the past 40 years...THAT is Europe...one thing you should laugh about!

Not paying attention about what the other EU countries think about you is what makes you a TRUE EU member! Yes, that is one paradox thing ;).

Cheers mates!