History / History of the crime ; Bandera, UPA and Podole Polish land. [116]


Nobody sold anything. Bodya signed a military pact about joined fight against RP, which Russians as always turned it into something else and what is more important - the document which had 2 copies - one of which was taken back to Moskovia, mysteriosly disappeared and only mythical suggestions of what it was about was created by following tzars and later Soviet regime. Bohdan Chmelnyc'kyj made quite a few strategical mistakes in his life, but nevertheless he is and will be respected as a national hero.

Porzeczka, registered Cossacks and those who created Zaporhiz'ku Sich were people of different attitudes and points of view. These never recognized a king to be their superior. Even Hetman was chosen by them and could have been taken down anytime if he did anything wrong. Their own policy regarding Ottoman empire, constant fights against the whole spectrum of RP society in the 17th century,own court and executive system, language, religion etc. puts them far away to be considered as some subjects of some far-remote king Horoh :)

History / History of the crime ; Bandera, UPA and Podole Polish land. [116]


Mykhailo Hryshevsky "History of Ukraine-Rus'" and Orest Subtelnyj "Ukraine: A history" :)

History / History of the crime ; Bandera, UPA and Podole Polish land. [116]


Я не серджусь. Я поважаю тебе як брата. :)


I see no light in it.


Absolutely.


Read any book on extensive Ukrainian history.


Luckily for you, I don't have a sister. I agree with invasion part - your mouth will be quite invasively occupied ; )


Yes, that's what I said ; ) (you wanted to offend me, but offended yourself ; ))


Well, instead of fighting them, you fought us, exposing your and our asses to Russians and Germans. That's why I say that there was no bright light whatsoever in that mimicry of kingdom tsarya Horoha ;)


I saw no Ukrainians there. But who cares - good for you - it was a good cause. Hey, Boleslaw Prus took part in it and he is one of my super-favorite foreign writers (Pharaon and Lalka - the last one - chef-d'oeuvre!)

History / History of the crime ; Bandera, UPA and Podole Polish land. [116]


Hej, I may accept that we are on the opposite poles, with Sokrates sitting actually on one of them ;) ,nothing else : )

And as neighbors - Ukrainian and Polish - we should respect and understand each other. History is in the past, let's learn from it - not repeat it.

Peace, bro.

History / History of the crime ; Bandera, UPA and Podole Polish land. [116]


Hey, this is the way it has to be carried on, Torq. Don't get offended (Btw **** was s*it if it makes feel you better : )). It is history.


I sure do. But everyone feels this hurt only for himself. But to hurt others seems so easy and funny, right?!

I want the last time to hear anything said towards my sister. If you are a retarded piece of s*it, better watch your mouth.

History / History of the crime ; Bandera, UPA and Podole Polish land. [116]


You will plow my di*k, retard, with your tight teethless blabber-hole.


You mean uprisings called Koliivshchyna in 1750s and 1768-1769, when you asked Russians for help in supressing Ukrainian uprising? And you say that Haydamaky used your dove and angel-sword flag? Muhahah. Give me a fukcing break. They may have used it to stick it up your asses, but not as a symbol of any sort. Read about Koliivshchyna and you will know exactly who fought for what and how nice it was:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koliivshchyna


When such a BS institution existed? Give me a single reference.


Read on how Ukrainians used to live with Lithuanians in-between 1350-1550s - there was no rebellions on either side, mutual respect of religion and culture, until appeared hordes of bydliakow from Poland and Russia, who have no culture and no idea of what normal human relations are like. Starting 1591 till 1830s there were hundreds of Ukrainian uprisings to get rid of Polish bydlo and at least managed to bring the ridiculous mimicry of that retarded joke kingdom down.


Ukrainian national identity was developping starting from Kievan Rus' and fortified by fantastic national heroes like hetmans and commanders Sahaydachnyj, Bohdan Chmel, Maksym Kryvonis, Maksym Zalizniak, Ivan Gonta, Ivan Mazepa, Pylyp Orlyk, Polubotok...and millions regular people who believed in freedom and died for it.

They initially identified themselves with Poles? ; )))) Those who said that "Pole, Jew and a dog are of one faith". I don't think they were of such low self-esteem.


If it will be necessery, we will stick our "little, stinky freedom" in your little stinky throat and suffocate you by your own ****.

History / History of the crime ; Bandera, UPA and Podole Polish land. [116]

Poles are always trying to expand, which leads eventually to contraction. This is called the 1st law of history. The bigger expansion, the more powerful contraction - like a heart and not only ;) You feel always lonely, inadequate, psychotic - why? You need somebody else to tell that you are worth something? Your power is based on the same principles as Russia - the bigger, the more powerful? Wouldn't it be better to invest into science and improve lives of millions instead of pretending there is any family link between us and show me doves with angels armed to their teeth? Bad boy, Torq.

History / History of the crime ; Bandera, UPA and Podole Polish land. [116]

What do you smoke, bro? ; )
Show me a treaty where Ukies wanted anything to do with you.

But look simply at your logic:


Ok, let's assume we wanted it (what a BS!:), so we should have had the rights the same as you, before we "changed our views" - correct? Yes. Then you say:


How can you give the rights (which according to you should have been there in the first place) to people (who are already in union with you wilfully with the same rights) and now fighting with you (what for?) and you claim that it is preposterous to give them the rights? How can you give again something that is already there?

So either you lie (obvious!), or there was a treaty and one side didn't keep up to its promises. In 1569 there was Lublin Union between Lithuania and Poland. I see no Ukraine there and Ukies saying: "Yejjj!"

History / Ukraine famine documents released. [3]

Greatly appreciated, Borrka. If we could raise ourselves above the huge pile of Russian government manipulations in our relations, it would be fabulous. I am glad there is such cooperation between the two.

Yesterday was a Commemoration day of Holodomor victims. Eternal memory to all of them and let their souls rest in peace.

News / Poles protest US Stalin memorial plan [28]


When did it start? In the early October of 1938 with occupation of Teschen by Poland or rather from the Munich conference itself in September of the same year? I always had difficulty with the start of WWll.

Love / Do not marry Polish woman [212]

Natasia, you didn't think I was talking directly to you in my post? No, it was directed to your words and how I understood them. "Fat ass" and other stuff are just methaphorical expressions. Most probably I misunderstood you. Reaction to "quality-sperm-seeking-missiles", maybe. And don't feel sorry about me, I won't pity you either. I just don't like "money is all" approach. I see that you didn't mean it and I absolutely agree on importance of money since it is our time, sweat and sometimes happiness expressed in a feasible manner.

Men should provide for their women. Just as women have to spiritually provide for their men. Not being well-off doesn't mean one cannot provide for a wife and kids, though, and this is exactly what I missed in your posts. That's why I replied.


I completely agree on that one. Who can argue?!


You exactly know what and when I said about life-sucking practices by women. And I have never denied importance of healthy or unhealthy sex before, during or after pregnancy. You like it during - wonderful, good for you. For majority of men it doesn't matter - we want it most of the time and in various forms and imaginations - as long as the woman is psychologically bearable. I think a bit of caring on a woman's part can make a man anything you want, just don't suck it out.

Regards

History / Pole, Jew and dog: all have the same faith. [33]

joepilsudski

I think in the Poland a joke like that is also possible. The France and the Italy might have funny ads as well. I saw an ad from the Spain recently, it was hilarious. So ethnic humour is not only in Ukraine.

Love / Do not marry Polish woman [212]

Wow. So a quality woman is the one who is happy being pregnant, having sex and no bills. If you find one that is independant or possessing other features of a healthy human being, it would mean that that woman is of no quality? Biology and nature, about which you are talking, make you as well very controlling. And for guys to make you pregnant, bill-less and full of sex (interest in which is often gone with estrogen)and at the same time having your claws in the back of one's neck with every move... is not such a desirable deal. Nothing wrong with wanting to live with a rich f*ck. But, personally, I wouldn't like to live and be eventually dying by a woman (she, probably, be f*cking other rich f*ck at that time) that married me because of bills and my d*ick. I'll better find a "desperate" one (as you put it), but at least there will be a chance of some love, of which I read in Shakespear when I was young and stupid.

I asked you a question about DNA, not because I have any idea of genetics or something, I just wanted to know where quality-seeking-sperm-missiles get an idea of what quality is. As it looks from your notion of a triad requirements: sex-bills-pregnancy - it carries not much of what in biology can be called as quality sperm. It is all about sitting with a fat ass on a couch and spoil every evening when a husband comes home from work. Because bills can be covered by a guy who works even in not well-paid places. A guy will bang a wall for hours if it said "Hello" to him once in a while, so sex and pregnancy are not a problem either. But... you like to be better off than some other twats in the neighborhood. And exactly this has nothing to do with a quality sperm, of which you are talking about. It can be better put as "easy-life-and-having-someone-to-suck-life-out-missiles".

History / Pole, Jew and dog: all have the same faith. [33]

I have never seen this ad on Ukrainian TV. Even if it was aired (doubt it), it should have been taken out, because it is tactless, extremely rude and doesn't reflect Ukrainian humor at all (at least the one that is aired ;)

Love / Do not marry Polish woman [212]

natasia

Natasia, I have a question for you. Is intelligence encoded in DNA? If you answer "yes", what percentage (of DNA) you would apportion to it?

History / Pole, Jew and dog: all have the same faith. [33]

L'vivske Brewery is owned by Carlsberg group. They produce really good beer - my favorite is named "1715", because the brewery itself was founded in that year. It is the oldest brewery in Ukraine, so Lviviany, me included, are very proud of it. Of course, it is young compared to some western and central European breweries. But nevertheless... The first brewery museum was recently openned in L'viv on St. Kleparivska 18.

In the 1st ad by 1jola, it is about a prince who was coming back from the war and he was willing to get as fast as possible home and nothing could stop him on the way. But within city wall a monk crossed him on his way. He was about to kill him and the rest BB's story is right. The beer has never left the prince table since that day on. All that it says occurred in 1715.

At the end it says that the glory of Lvivske beer spread to the west and to the east.
The last three words are : "Feel the taste of a legend".

History / Did Ukraine really "steal" Polish land? [302]

I am tired to discuss this matter anymore. Let's everyone have or form her/his own opinion.


I told you that Ukraine won't fight your cavalry with tanks, we will also be on horses. So don't worry, we are fair.

Regarding one week to take Ukraine - haha - all NATO forces combined are not able to take over Afghanistan for years.
By the way, Ukraine produces nice tanks (T-84 OplotM) and anti-horse machinery, Poland will always be met with respect. ;) Oh well, enough jokes. I am leaving for a while. See you around Christmas (I hope). All the best to everyone.

History / Did Ukraine really "steal" Polish land? [302]


Borrka, why are these lies? I haven't denied Polish role in L'viv's history. What I denied is 90% of the city built by Poles, which is a HUGE LIE. You have an example in photos I explained higher. Porzeczka tries to use words like "finished", "bought by a Pole later", "renovated by Polish", which sound a bit incorrect if you describe word "to build".


You wouldn't lose that bet. And yes, crisis hit us hard. So? We had worse crisis in our history, much worse. This one we will live through. Ukraine's major problem is not economy, it is politicians who slow down the reforms. But I don't think this will last long. Step by step we will be back.


Well, you weren't able to say anything of value against my post and yes, Lviv is a city of cultural diversity: Ukrainian, Armenian, Polish, Austrian ... , not just Polish. It is ridiculous.


Why do you think we will copy German tactics and fight your cavalry with tanks? ;)

Regarding Ukrainian economy:
Exports: Russia 21.3%
Turkey 7.1%
Italy 6.4%
USA 4.1%
Imports: Russia 28.2%
Germany 11.7%
Poland 7.6%
China 7%
Turkmenistan 5.7%
Certainly, Russia is Ukraine's main economy partner, export-import wise. But as you can see there are some countries in Europe like Turkey and Italy which need our goods and Germany and your country have the place to sell their goods.

And Sokrates, who ever in this world was interested in the good of others if not with some profit for himself? If EU is not interested in Ukraine, there is always Near East, North Africa, Asia, South America. There is always someone who will love and be loved. Don't worry for Ukraine. Better watch your own back, because as far as I see, its bare.

History / Did Ukraine really "steal" Polish land? [302]

You know how it ended so many times before, Sokrates. Later you will be sniffling to EU that Ukaine was rough on you in the past. Don't go the same road again. :)

As to poverty, ask BB about Eastern Germany and what communism did to it in just 45 years. Being one of the most powerful economies, it is still harsh on the western part, if I understand it right. And as far as I know communism too was a bit different in East Berlin as compared to SU. Ukraine finally defined its borders 18 years ago, so we are slowly but surely be moving in the right direction. Thanks for interest, though. It is nice to see the neighbor to watch your back. You always know that there is someone who in difficult times will scratch it for you. Greatly appreciated. Russians - from the front and Poles - from behind; Wow, what a beautiful love sandwich! So cosy! Kisses to both.

History / Did Ukraine really "steal" Polish land? [302]

I have never in my life changed anything or even added to Wikipedia. I will definately do add more about Ukraine in the future when I will have more knowledge about my country's history.

Picture #6, right above BB's post is Italian courtyard in Kornyakt's residence, stop making things up if you have no idea what you are posting. Potocki palace is #5.

Interesting thing: Boim was a Hungarian merchant, Wikipedia puts it Jerzy Boim; Boim chapel was designed as well as Bernardine Church (now St. Andrew's) and townhall by Andreas Bemer of German/Czech origin, Wikipedia calls him Andrzej Bemer. Why do you always have to change everyone into Poles? Don't have enough of talented people?

Listen, Lviv was and will be a city built by enourmous array of cultural heritages - Greek, Armenian, Austrian, Polish, German, Ukrainian, Lithuanian - name it. It will never be a city of some single heritage, since neither can be attributed even with 30% of pure input. And my post #181 (no matter how limited it is) proves it.

Many historical monuments are being renovated in L'viv and are in very good condition - look at pics above, some are in dire need of more funds, no doubt. It is difficult, but slowly and surely it will be done. I think 2012 will see great influx of tourists from all over Europe and this will boost L'viv's budget for further improvements.

Slo, if you like biology, this is for you - "Traktat pro wlastywosti khameleoniw" :)



It is interesting when people, having no arguments anymore, open up their true nature like a flower on a beautiful summer morning. All pretense disappears. I was surprised, I thought what happened to Sokrates. I looked for him and found now again. :)

History / Did Ukraine really "steal" Polish land? [302]

Sokrates,
Picture #3 - Hotel George built in 1901 under Austro-Hungarian empire and designed by two Austrian architecs from Vienna (Ukrainian - Viden') Ferdinand Fellner and Herman Helmer. Was it Poland and where they Polish? ;)

Picture # 4 is the church of St. Jura (St. George Cathedral) built at the place of burnt by Poles in 1340 wooden church. In the form it is right now, the Church was built in 1746-1762 by Ukrainian Catholic metropolitans Athanasij and Lev Sheptyckij - not by Poles.

Picture # 6 - Italian Courtyard located in the former residence of Konstiantyn Kornyakt, extremely rich Greek merchant dealing in wine along the whole coast of the Black Sea. He ordered a palace to be built for himself when he moved into L'viv around 1580. Nothing Polish in here either.

Picture # 15 (out of 16) Chapel of Boyim (one of my favorite chapels, small and so filled with details) - built in 1671 for a rich Hungarian merchant Boyim, where 3 generations of his family are buried. I have to acknowledge, though, that his wife was Polish. :) (does he count as Polish because of that?)

Potocki palace and St. Elisabeth church built by Roman Catholics, I wouldn't argue.
Regarding Lviv University Ivana Franka - built in 1661 according to Hadyach agreement between Ukrainian Cossacks and Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, where a Ruthenian university had to be built in L'viv. L'viv Politech University was built in 1817 as a secondary technical school by Austrian empire and upgraded in 1844 to Technical Academy.

So much to your 90% and over myth, Sokrates. I wish I had more time since I learn myself along the way.
Interesting fact: in 1870 Franz Joseph l of Austria issued a decree, in which Polish was made official language of the school. Many professors had to resign because of that. Bastardic behavior on Austrian part. I just wonder what could have caused such suck-up policy by Tiroles. And then some lists of "famous alumni" with Polish lastnames appear. No wonder!

By the way, Sokrates, thank you for bringing the photos of L'viv. 90% - of course, NO!

History / Did Ukraine really "steal" Polish land? [302]


Why do you dig stones in Gdansk and Poznan then? :)



So the fact that Empireal Austrian State Railways built all these railroads is nothing compared to Sokrates "we built...to and from it". It is a fact. I don't bend anything here. If Austrians appear on this forum and make a claim like that, I won't say a word.

Also I don't deny Polish presence there for 444 years (look above), I mentioned it to Sokrates "6 times more" statement, which is a lie.

Polish had a big impact on L'viv history and culture - I don't deny it. But as you can see there is a great tendency of overblowing reality. Polish erected some beautiful artifacts. Just don't say that "we built ...90%" in city which was taxing Ukrainian majority during Habsburg empire for L'viv's budget. If you present that majority of Poles - 51% according to census conducted in 1931, you forget how intense Polish polonozation and pacification policies were in 1920-30s, driving Ukrainians out of the city. Look on petition of Supreme Ruthenian Council to Habsburgs to split Galicia in half, since Eastern part was predominantly Ukrainian and Western - Polish in 1848. So if you weren't majority of the population and didn't have your own country, how can you claim of building 90% of the city? Just be honest.

History / Did Ukraine really "steal" Polish land? [302]


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lviv_Railways


As you can see something doesn't add up with "we built ..." story.


Ukraine 1256-1349
Poland 1349-1772
Habsburg empire 1772-1918
Poland 1918-1939
Ukraine 1939-2009...
Poland total 444 years
Ukraine 163 years
444/163 = 2.723926 :)
Lviv Opera House built in 1897-1900, project by Z. Gorgolewski, Polish architect whose drawings were picked as the best design. It cost 6 million Austrian crowns and money were gathered on L'viv budget + donations. Cool, but again "we built.."? No. Designed? Yes.

History / Did Ukraine really "steal" Polish land? [302]


I don't argue, but 90% of L'viv architecture - give me a break.


I don't deny Polish input in Ukrainian city. I just don't feel like tolerating following expressions:


No, it was Ukrainian, it was built by Ukrainian king, occupied by Poles and now it is back where it always belonged. This is all I wanted to say. When there is a talk with Germans, you dig some stone from Gdansk harbor in 990s set by Mieszko l just to prove that it was Polish. So be kind to acknowledge historical fact when we are talking about L'viv. Again, I don't deny Polish impact on L'viv architecture, but, please, don't overblow it, Sokrates, especially when you "got over it for Christ sake" ; )

Regards to all.

History / Did Ukraine really "steal" Polish land? [302]

My mistake, yes German settlers built Maria Snizhna Church in 1340s. Armenian was built 20 years later. But it isn't the oldest either. There is some evidence that St. John the Baptist church built in 1250 by Ukrainian king Lev for his wife Constance, who was a Hungarian princess. On the other hand, some date it somewhere in the mid-xlv century, so I wouldn't argue too much about it.

I don't deny that some Polish imprint is on the city of L'viv (there is not Lwow anywhere in the world as far as I am aware of), but funny claims of 90% etc. are just out of line. Polish occupation of 450 years in the history of a city that celebrated its 753rd anniversiry plus the fact that majority of the buildings were built in 18-20th centuries, when Poland didn't exist, makes the assumptions preposterous.


Exactly :), rein and roq - Polish invention, no doubt.
One important fact - Ukrainians inhabited L'viv long before Polish wild roaming hungry hordes encroached on our lands.

History / Did Ukraine really "steal" Polish land? [302]

Poles might have designed some buildings in L'viv - nothing else. There is no such a thing as "Polish" architecture. Why are you surprised by me mentioning Armenians? The oldest church in Lviv is Armenian Orthodox church (Xlll century if I am not mistaken) that somehow escaped wild hordes of invading Poles in 14th century, when those burnt most of L'viv churches. As to cultural diversity it doesn't mean that you have to build something (or in case with Poles - destroy something) in order to represent cultural diversity. It might mean that people are living, working and participating in the life of the city and at the same time bringing something from their cultural heritage. We are not like some countries 95% catholic mono-national monolith ( no names here ;)- no - we have pretty large diversity, Sokrates.

News / Rydzyk gets away with racism yet again [198]


Christ was preaching equality 2,000 years ago. Church till the end of the Middle Ages (if I am not mistaken) claimed that Africans don't have souls. Church evolves very slowly compared to the society in general. We should help it to break the strings of historic retardedness as well as it may help us be more peaceful in everyday's life.


No, it is to our society to decide whether it was racist or not. A priest in itself is a servant of a church and most of the time will be forced to keep his tongue behind teeth if the Church says so. If it remaied in the walls of the Church - no problem. But it was said publicly and, therefore, the priest has to bare responsibility for that. Consequences of him saying this way and being that easily excused or even forgotten, will have its repercussions on our society. This is why he has to answer.


Absolutely.


Should we kindly pat him on his butt and forget?

History / PIŁSUDSKI'S DREAM OF CONFEDERATION? [14]

Confederation may work only high in the mountains with beautiful cows roaming around and people singing jodel. You need to have fresh air and sain brains. Otherwise, it wouldn't work.

History / PIŁSUDSKI & BANDERA? [11]

This is very nice that each of our countries has its heroes. I consider Stepan Bandera to be one of the greatest independance fighters of Ukraine.

USA, Canada / Why Americans think that nobody likes them? [185]

I have been living in the US for a long time and from my experience I may say that Americans on average are very nice people, warm, helpful and honest. There are always pros and cons in every nation.