News / Poland is the most friendly neighbor of Ukraine and Russia - Ukrainian poll ... [132]


You mean the same Piłsudski who proposed a joint strike with France?


I never said he asked France, he and his supporters had the idea to ask France which is why the two questions were asked.

As for your other statement in 1933 Poland could have easily overrun Germany, alone and within several weeks, the difference in standing armies was staggering and only equalled in 1936.


Yep but you somehow claim he was a loon with unreasonable policies, his original intent was to attack Germany but he needed France, not so much for military help, Poland didnt need that at the time but for political legitimacy.

News / Man Why Do People Like PO Instead Of PIS [120]


There were no hints, no proof, nothing, the entire case was based on a single testimony extracted by blackmailing her friend who herself was guilty of bogus financial operations.

And you're not ready to admit anything, short of PiS officialls skullfvcking a newborn child before cameras and sodomizing the pope you're just as hardline and unreasonable in your support as hardcore commies back in the old bad days.

News / Poland is the most friendly neighbor of Ukraine and Russia - Ukrainian poll ... [132]


Actually he did see Germany as a lesser threat then Russia.


Siedzimy na dwóch stołkach, zależy z którego spadniemy najpierw - J. Piłsudski.

We're sitting on two stools, it depends from which one we'll fall first.

Historical knowledge about Piłsudski is better gained from books then discussions by the beer Sean :)

News / Man Why Do People Like PO Instead Of PIS [120]


So now we're into who's stealing was more or less serious? Theft is theft, especially for goverment representatives.


Mariusz Kamiński and the misuse of grants from EU during PiS, research that, knowledge earned is better then given.

I have to admit that shipyards were first messed up by SLD but PiS and PO did nothing to adress the situation.


No but neither was arresting her without any solid evidence (the only evidence was a rather shaky testimony by her friend), PiS didnt really think it through but there's a lot they did not plan for.

News / Man Why Do People Like PO Instead Of PIS [120]


I'm not a hardcore follower of any party since there's no major party that i could call honest, i just try to pick the lesser of two evils and i see things as they are.


You know whats your problem mate? Like many in of the hardcore electorate of various parties you follow a group because of personal preference.

It doesnt matter to you that PiS was stealing, squandering European grants and using completely irrelevant little scandals to cover the fact they're not doing anything about serious issues like the shipyards, what matters to you is that its PiS.

You're going to shout, patronise and ridicule becuase its your party, in a perfect world you, all people like you and all the major parties in Poland could be quietly shot behind a barn and the rest of us could build our lives here without the burden of lunatics and power hungry incompetents but i guess thats one of the cons of democracy, everyone gets a voice.


Given to what lengths PiS went disregarding the procedures in place to secure the rights of our citizens nothing about the case of Blida is set in stone, nothing.

But possibly the most outrageous is the way they dealt with our soldiers, people who sworn to defend us and give their lives for you and me if the need arises, got any comment on the treatment of those commandos arrested for Nengher Khel?

News / Man Why Do People Like PO Instead Of PIS [120]


26 why?


Squandering vs spending:)

News / Man Why Do People Like PO Instead Of PIS [120]


How do you know it was suicide?


No there's not which is why it was dropped.


For crimes they did not commit?


Yup, that would explain your political standing, a total lack of knowledge, the funds EU gave us were missapropriated, chiefly by your beloved PiS.

News / Should Poland acquire the atomic bomb? [28]


We're going to nuke Lwów so you cant have it.

News / Man Why Do People Like PO Instead Of PIS [120]


Like with the knowledge of UE grants to our shipyards during PiS which were squandered?

News / Man Why Do People Like PO Instead Of PIS [120]


Sometimes yes, its pretty varied depending on company and position you're applying for.


The situation with the shipyards is that we did not use the subsidies to any reasonable end, EU gave the chance to save our shipyards and we did not, one of the main culprits is PiS.

I'm against closing down our shipyards and i too see it as a fairly hostile move on part of Germany and France but the brutal fact is our goverment could have easily saved our shipyards but the indolence and incompetence of several goverments including PiS led us to the point we're in now, not EU, not Germany and not France, our goverment.

PiS and PO only aggravated the problem and made it critical.

News / Man Why Do People Like PO Instead Of PIS [120]

Rubbish, never seen that point of view and i worked in several large Polish companies by now.

Generally working experience is welcome, experience in specific trade even more so, the only thing that my current company demands is an e-mail to the previous employer but even thats unusual.

News / Man Why Do People Like PO Instead Of PIS [120]


Corruption, incompetence, ignoring the liberties and laws of Polish citizens, lack of grasp on geopolitical reality, antagonizing our neighbours.


The shipyard situation is also their fault as much as PO, they failed to adress it just as badly as PO did.

Btw, thats the first time in a while that i bumped into hardcore PiS electorate :)

News / Man Why Do People Like PO Instead Of PIS [120]


No, they're incompetent power hungry thieves (just like PiS) but they're slightly better on the international arena, if i had a positive alternative i'd flush both PiS and PO down a crapper together though.


Gumishu dont preach to me, i'm perfectly aware of what PO is doing and they're still not as bad as PiS but they are bad, i chose what i perceive as the lesser of two evils and thats all there is to it.


Bilda case where they arrested a woman on camera like in some sort of reality show without having any solid proof.

Doctor G - where they created a media scandal accusing a doctor of murder in a sensationalist manner and attempted to imprison him without any proof.

Afghanistan scandal - our soldiers fired on civilians by mistake and on American orders and they treated them like worst scum and criminals.

Worst of all they attempted to use these cases as propaganda, you dont destroy your own citizens and sh*t on their rights and liberties to get votes, thats just not right.

News / Man Why Do People Like PO Instead Of PIS [120]


I'm going to vote for the party that i think will damage Poland the least or if i'm pissed enough i'm just not going to vote even though i feel like sh*t when i dont.


I blame PiS for not having a plan on how to develop Poland internally and externally and trying to build their image by cheap provocations typical of communist era, they'd grab some small time corruption case in the govt and make it out like all our economic and diplomatic problems are gone because they're puting some small time thief in the slammer.

Sorry but thats just not benefitting us in any way, its just building their image for the masses while the situation continues to be bad.

News / Man Why Do People Like PO Instead Of PIS [120]


Officially approximately 16%, with the grey zone included? I think around 11%


No, the most likely result in the case of a crisis would be collapse of the current political order since society just doesnt trust anyone enough to handle a situation you describe.


Well if its Europe wide then yeah Polish economy is going to be affected, i cant see racism growing enough without economical collapse though, the cultural gap between Poles and Western Europeans is not just not there for that to happen.


Oh yeah the land of dreams and how Poland should be:)

Seriously though in the event of an economic crisis the most likely result is a total colapse of political elite and emergence of something else rather then a social shift to one particular side, our political system at large is largely fictional in that its inherently incapable of dealing with any major issue.

Poland deals awesomely with the crisis but thats just people being used to having it up the slope whereas in the West you just cant live without a new DVD each week (yes i know i'm hyping).


Sorry Gumishu thats just not true, much of Eastern Germany is run by former commies.

News / Man Why Do People Like PO Instead Of PIS [120]


The international image translates directly into our interests being more secure, you fail at diplomacy.

News / JEW YOUTH SHOULD CLEAN UP THEIR ACT IN POLAND [420]


I have provided a link and i'm going to repeat it:

Which proves Jews in the Eastern Poland were murdering and denouncing Poles to Soviets and it was a massive issue.

As i have said before your only goal in this discussion is to convince people despite all evidence that Poles are racists and Jews are victims, i can provide even more links to academic research which proves Jewish responsibility for genocide on Poles and acts of treason against Poland.

The problem is that you repeatedly ignored proof of Jewish racism and criminal activity, attempted to discredit the sources even when the source was a respected Israeli Jewish academic and now you're trying to ridicule a statement backed by academic sources.

Note i'm not using any political sites, i can provide 14 different links to different academic works of Polish (and in two cases Russian) historians not affiliated with any right wing organisation saying the same.

News / Man Why Do People Like PO Instead Of PIS [120]


It handled them without being severely hit before they left, but seriously why would there be such an exodus?


Much of the electorate of PiS were simple people from the country prone to soak up the populist crap, PO won mainly as a counter to PiS, i myself voted not as much for PO as against PiS.


Collapse of the current party system and erection of a new one, hopefully better. Current political elites are completely incapable of dealing with any major issue.

News / Man Why Do People Like PO Instead Of PIS [120]

Not going to happen, Poland has less reserves then Germany but it also has a much leaner social system which brings down all the Western economies, we''ve deal with the crisis better then any country in Europe, for our economy to collapse it'd have to be a general European trend.

News / Man Why Do People Like PO Instead Of PIS [120]


Yep, Polish political scene is much more dynamic then Eastern Germany which is much more stable due to the provincial nature of its politics.

Also communism in Germany was not that bad since Russia pumped money into it so there's no great push to come clean from the populace which was at the time much more indoctrinated then the Poles.

News / JEW YOUTH SHOULD CLEAN UP THEIR ACT IN POLAND [420]


Not before but during the war, by turning in Poles to be executed by Soviets, killing Poles themselves, confiscating Polish property and expelling Poles from their homes, sabotaging Polish resistance movements.


Really? Want some links on how the Polish Jews enthusiastically joined the partitioning nations? Or wait was it because we were bad little anti-semites that the Polish Jews felt the need to betray us back then?


I can name and link you to over a dozen cases of Jewish citizens betraying Poland during the partitions, Jewish citzens exploiting Polish peasants on ethnic basis during their entire stay and Jews attempting to create ethnic business monopolies through racist policies in trade before WW2.

Jews were far from good loyal citizens, its just that during WW2 they went from borderline racists to genocidal murderers and traitors.


Yep, it comes from racist publications of Jews like Gross that started soon after WW2 ended, there was also an extensive anti-Polish campaign in US (from which the infamous Polish jokes originate) in the early 50s continouing to the 80s, yes it comes from somewhere but not from perceived Polish anti-semitism.


Got any statistics to prove that? I've been living in Poland for all my life and never noticed it to be anything serious, most of us dont give a crap, sure we get mad when someone like you or Gross comes up with racism and bias (and you're prejudiced against Poles to the point where you intentionally omit or manipulate facts to show Poles are racists and Jewish racists and criminals as victims) but for the most part Poland and Poles just dont care.

News / Man Why Do People Like PO Instead Of PIS [120]


I know.


Thats why i say we should have dealth with communists directly after the communism fell, now we're stuck with them for another 5-10 years.


Its also true.

News / Man Why Do People Like PO Instead Of PIS [120]


There was a time to put things right when communism fell, right now lustration would hurt too many innocents to be worth it.


Again its tricky, for example Kwaśniewski despite being a former commie was a very good president who understood the dynamics of working with Russia, not all former communists are the devil and PiS went ballistic with their strategy.


They're slowly going down though.

News / Man Why Do People Like PO Instead Of PIS [120]


Come on Jola i agree with you but do you honestly believe PiS was any better?

News / JEW YOUTH SHOULD CLEAN UP THEIR ACT IN POLAND [420]


Sorry but Israels hostility towards Poland is motivated purely by racism and greed, there is no excuse or justification for Israels outlook on Poland, especially in light of thousands of Jews Poles saved and the crimes of the Israeli ancestors against ethnic Poles.

Its disgusting that you even try to rationale it.


That they come to the table with Poland, they admit to their crimes towards us, we come clean of our anti-Jewish episodes and then we can move forward remembering only the Poles who save Jews and Jews who contributed positively to Poland.

Instead Israel chooses the path of racism and hatred at the same time using the smear of anti-semitism to force us to conceed to its disgusting policies and because we do not they become that much more agressive and anti-Polish.


That is a slanderous lie, you're right now just like Gross manipulating the facts to suit your position.

The difference between those countries and Poland is that Jews did not murder or betray citizens of those countries and they did betray and murder Poles (which i notice you failed to adress).


The view propagated initially by Jews, so just because most of the world views us this way is proof of slander (books like Sąsiedzi and Jedwabne which are a bunch of hateful anti-Polish crap as i outlined earlier) not proof of mythical Polish anti-semitism.


Thats another one of your underhanded tactics, sorry but i can say that a friend of mine is superman and it means nothing.

Given your propensity to bias in favor of Jews and insultive opinions towards Poles in previous posts there's a very high degree of posibility that right now you're lying not being able to reinforce your points with anything else then "my friend told me" or "everybody knows that Poles".

I notice how you failed to adress the question of Jewish betreyal of Poland, Jewish atrocities against Poles and the Israeli polonophobia.]


Given that there were 100k-200k Jewish survivors in Poland 33% is a HUGE number and living proof that many Jews were enthusiastic supporters of communism.

News / JEW YOUTH SHOULD CLEAN UP THEIR ACT IN POLAND [420]


In 1939 the cruise ship St Louis filled with Jews fleeing Germany was turned away from Cuba, USA and for England, Belgium and France to even accept several hundred people negotiations done by USA were needed (the same USA that didnt want to admit these people).

Before the war Jews were persona non grata in most of Europe yet people like Gross, and Israeli and American Jewish circles choose to target specifically Poland which was not only a victim of Jewish atrocities but despite them there was a large movement to help Jews.

News / JEW YOUTH SHOULD CLEAN UP THEIR ACT IN POLAND [420]


There's two important things to remember, traditional enmity between Judaism and Catholicism and more importantly, Vatican was in Fascist Italy, the Pope had very limited options and neutrality was probably the best political choice to preserve the church.

The question is would the Jews risk the seat of their religion for Catholics? I think we all know the answer.

News / JEW YOUTH SHOULD CLEAN UP THEIR ACT IN POLAND [420]


Lets get several things clear. Poles disliked Jews because this was a nationalistic period across Europe, all of it, including France, England and USA.

But when so many Jews took active part in murdering Poles and supporting Soviets it ended up with hostility and thats why i have beef with Gross and his ilk, they fail to mention the Jewish participation in Soviet crimes on Poles prior to any Polish atrocities.

Thats of course not any justification but its a much more real reason then Poles being evil hatefull monsters.


Is this why after they cheered Russian troops they participated in murder and denunciation of Poles? Because they were relieved?


Actually Stalin used Polish Jews to deal with Poles on occupied territories and Jews took him up on his proposal.

chodakiewicz.salon24.pl/80983,percepcja-i-rzeczywistosc-zydzi-i-polacy-na-kresach-1939-1941

Of course the phenomenon of Jewish betreyal of Poland is a bit complicated and not every Jew was participating, some actually helped Poles but the fact is it happened.

Jews participated in what amounts to a mass betreyal of their host country (Poland) and while you have a point and fear of Germany played a serious part in their enthusiasm, it did not in their atrocities against Poles.

Forgetting this fact when writing about Jedwabne is in my opinion proof that Gross is biased against Poles.

News / JEW YOUTH SHOULD CLEAN UP THEIR ACT IN POLAND [420]


While those sites are clearly a retards playground they do raise some valid facts.


No but i can post a history with relevant links to the chosen (by you) figures these guys offered.

Though this gunslinger guy is raving he got one thing right, European Jews were big on communism, before, during and after the war.


And then he perverted the data and presented whats basically a fat lie, he purposefully inflated the number of Jews to a non-existent figure (as well as a number of Poles, since we dont know how many Poles participated yet Gross authoritatively posts heavy figures).

Furthermore Gross fails to puts the crime in historical context (Jews murdering Poles under Soviet occupation prior to Jedwabne) and presented this simply as an act of pure mindless greed and hatred when at the time Jews in the region were detested for their previous atrocities on Poles done under Soviets, he also uses specifically designed vague general terms to create an implication that such killings were the norm across Poland.

I dont know whether Gross is simply a sloppy historian or joined the Jewish circles that hate and purposefuly slander Poland but his book is not a solid factual basis to lean on.

The question is whether Gross is purposefully lying or is just a sloppy writer, i'd learn to the prior.


This is another sign of bad will on Gross' account, we know Poles took part in it, we know Germans had a role in it both passive and active, we dont really know how many Poles and how many Germans took part in the crime however Gross is silent about German participation except for a few passages where he (vaguely and withotu reference to sources of course) implies Poles and Germans actually worked together (sic!)

But given the disgusting reception to book got from Jews worldwide its evident they're ready to forget how many of them we saved and to what extents we went to do it, such books are nothing short of excuse for Jews for being racist towards Poles.

News / Man Why Do People Like PO Instead Of PIS [120]


Because of his policy towards our army and treatment of soldiers from Afghanistan, because of cheap law enforcement provocations his party did which were straight out of Stalinist times.

Because he entered the shield agreement, because his party continued to f*ck with our shipyards, because he destroyed our perception abroad, because he screwed with Russia and Germany more then he should.

That said PO is almost as bad.