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Posts by IronsE11  

Joined: 3 Mar 2008 / Male ♂
Last Post: 26 Mar 2009
Threads: Total: 2 / In This Archive: 1
Posts: Total: 441 / In This Archive: 396
From: East London
Speaks Polish?: no
Interests: West Ham United FC, getting help with English/Polish translation!

Displayed posts: 397 / page 1 of 14
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IronsE11   
5 Dec 2009
UK, Ireland / Why are we paying child benefit in Poland? [63]

You think Child Benefit is bad? You'd better close your eyes when the Child Tax Credit figures are put in front of you.

Speaking as someone who works in benefit administration, I can safely say that the system is in need of major reform.
IronsE11   
27 Nov 2009
History / The Poms who stood by the Poles in WW2 [156]

Ozi Dan

Been away from the forum for a while, but not surprised to see this clown embarrassing himself again.

I'll pass on your message of thanks to my late grandfather who fought with the Poles at Monte Cassino.
IronsE11   
3 Nov 2009
News / 14 year old rape victim from Warsaw denied abortion! [348]

No, I don't care to hear the opinions of Atheists and Agnostics in shaping the Law. Someone who has no fear of God and no moral law to direct them cannot be trusted to have anything to do with shaping laws of nations.

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
IronsE11   
27 Oct 2009
UK, Ireland / Britain's bad teeth [77]

I go to a dentist in Czestochowa. Even including air fares it's cheaper than the UK and the quality of dentistry is superb.

I'd also point out that I have far nicer teeth than my Polish other half and the myth about British people having bad teeth is just that.
IronsE11   
14 Aug 2009
Life / Openly gay in Poland [245]

Get your dirty ass down the latest fisting club will yah Irons.

Come on Wroclaw Boy, it was a serious question! What would you do in that situation? You asked the same question did you not?

You might think that throwing around homophobic insults is funny or clever, but it just makes you look like a child. Rather worrying that you claim to be a father. If you want to make a rational point then go ahead, I will happily debate it with you. If not, then by all means keep throwing around playground insults.

I could not care less if you think I'm gay or not. As have I pointed out previously, I have a stunning girlfriend that most men could only dream of.

Anal Treet (AKA Canal Street) which is the main strip for the gay village in Manchester..might have given him a bit of 'exposure'!

Always made me laugh did that. A clever bit of tip-ex on the road-sign turning the Canal Street in to anal treet. Especially given as it is the gay capital of Manchester. Quite a good night out if I recall.
IronsE11   
14 Aug 2009
Life / Openly gay in Poland [245]

Thanks for your input cock sucker. I have to attend to my naturally born daughter, a true miracle of this world..

A fantastic point well made.

I was going to ask this to the Dutch guy but hes not here at the moment. What happens if you want gay sex and your partners just eaten a massive three course meal and is dying for a monumental dump and you as a gay partner want sex? what happens then?

That's a strange thing to want to know. Especially as you have spent the last few posts bleating about not wanting to hear about that sort of thing.

This is only a guess, but maybe they just suck each other off.

What would you do if you wanted to f*ck your wife up the arse and she had just eaten a massive three course meal and was dying for a monumental dump?
IronsE11   
14 Aug 2009
Life / Openly gay in Poland [245]

IronsE11 you can take a run and jump based on the fundamental fact ive pointed out above. Many gays on this very forum advertise the fact that theyre gay out of all proportion.

Based on what fact? You've posted nothing other than ill-informed rubbish.

Many gays on this very forum advertise the fact that theyre gay out of all proportion.

Maybe, and many gays don't. WHO GIVES A FLYING TOSS?

You live in the centre of a city where its totally acceptable.

Pretty much, although their are still quite a few religious folk who oppose it based on age-old bigotry.

Ugly guys that cant pull a women for shite resort to the otherside.

Yep, I can't think of a woman in the world that would go near that George Michael chap!

Jesus wept.
IronsE11   
14 Aug 2009
Life / Openly gay in Poland [245]

I'll have to do some research, which I can't right now, but isn't the percentage of homosexuals far greater in some cultures than others? Japan, Africa, for example, as compared to eh, not to cater to stereotypes since I'm speaking without definitive proof here but, France? If that's true (which I'm not sure that it is, and I would normally check it to be sure before posting/not posting), then why would that be the case?

It's because it's almost impossible to measure. If you took a survey in Iran, questioning people on whether they had a homosexual inclination you would find very few (if any) who would admit to it. Doesn't mean they don't like d1ck, it just means that they wont tell anyone about it. In Britain or the US, the situation is different as society is (as a whole) more accepting of it.

Sorry to harp on about gay friends or people I know, but I once knew someone who served in the Israeli army. He was an incredible homophobe. He tried for a long time to persuade himself he wasn't gay because (apparently) Israeli society isn't the most accepting (recent events might back this up). He watched American Beauty on a flight from England to Israel and burst in to tears before coming out to his family, He was always gay, he just tried to convince himself otherwise.

You might be surprosed the number of people who do this. I've always found it hard to imagine! If you like d1ck, why spend your entire life trying to kid yourself that you don't!

Could you imagine me or any other hetrosexual member banging on about, fcuking women, sex, arse or what ever? You really are your own worst enemies.

Er... you've never seen a heterosexual PF member talk about that sort of thing?

MVEFA, or what ever the hell his screen name is, hes a shirt lifter, dirt box raider, putting from the rough what ever, but does that Koont ever stop advertising it?

Quite amusing that the only reason I know this is because YOU have just told me.

Maybe just overcompensating? Like showing those the proverbial finger who would like to take a club to their heads?

If both sides would relax and just ignore each other it would be best....I think....

Sex and Religion is really best if kept at home...IMHO!

Again, spot on.
IronsE11   
14 Aug 2009
Life / Openly gay in Poland [245]

But they dont hide it do they

Some do, some don't. I tend to think that the scale and pomp of some gay pride festivals is in someway a reaction to the disdain with which many people view homosexuality. It's like a big f*ck you. If no one gave a sh1t, there wouldn't be much to march about. It's like the black civil rights movement... it diminished somewhat with the abolition of apartheid.

Gays seem to love ramming it down other mens throats that they suck dick, and take it up the sh1tter etc..

Again, a massive generalisation, and one that can only lead me to believe that you don't know many gay people. I know gay/bi people who are married (to heterosexual partners), who have publically reppressed their natural inclination for the same sex, despite the fact that it is pretty obvious. Likewise, there are people that I knew for ages before finding out they were gay. Very few of my gay friends go on about their sexuality in my company. It's probably because I couldn't care less.

If a guy and a girl are holding hands or kissing in public then nobody bats an eyelid (unless it is excessive), but if a gay couple do the same it is classed as ramming it down other people's throats.
IronsE11   
14 Aug 2009
Life / Openly gay in Poland [245]

I don't think so!

Gays were always a part of mankind...also in nature btw.
Just the way it was seen, allowed, accepted or prohibited changed over the time. Making them either forbidden, hence invisible or more openly visible, but not more or less.

Either you are gay or not, no amount of pressure will change it, positively or negatively.

Just because a religiously suppressing society punishes gayness and tries to make them invisible doesn't make them go away...they are only forced to hide it.

Absolutely spot on 100%. I find it amazing that so many poeple are unable to grasp this most basic of concepts.

This was as I was advising the original poster on how to get by in Poland.

Fair enough. I guess the best advice is "stay away from Poland for a few years yet".

Well, doesn't exactly fit.

Of course, the comparisons are not not totally direct, but the principle remains: No one should have to hide who they are (or refrain from expressing themselves), if it the practice does not infringe upon the liberty of other individuals.
IronsE11   
14 Aug 2009
Life / Openly gay in Poland [245]

Pan Kazimierz

I pretty much agree with all of your points although I think it sad that so much emphasis is put on the homosexual avoiding this kind of abuse, instead of condemning the mindless idiots who condone it. I don't really see why what someone wears should have anything to do with how someone is treated, as the real problem is that a number of people simply don't like homosexuality. The fact that another person's sexuality (whether they choose to "display" it or not) has absolutely no influence on anyone else but them, makes it even more baffling to me.

I can't help but think that if it were a disabled person receiving abuse for being in a wheelchair, the general atitude wouldn't be:

"Well that's what happens if you go out in public in a wheelchair. I don't have a problem with the disabled, but this sort of thing will happen when they display their disability in public".

Likewise, following a spate of brutal rapes I doubt the general atitude wouldn't be:

"Well there will always be rapists as long as girls continue to go out in short skirts".

IMO, the emphasis in such situations should be put on the ignorant people who think it's ok to discriminate and treat people like sh1t based on their sexuality, as oppposed to the people that don't go out of their way to keep their sexuality secret.

It has been commented that Polish society respects sexuality as a personal mater, and that people are ok with whatever other people choose to do in the privacy of their own homes. Whilst I respect this position, I would question why I can go out and, hold hands and kiss my girlfriend in the middle of Czestochowa without anyone caring, yet if two gay people did the same then they would be viewed as "ramming it down people's throats".

IronsE11 are you gay?

I think the answer is evident from the reference to my girlfriend in my last post. I am very comfortable with my sexuality, and have a girlfriend most men could only dream of :-)

Funnily enough, her attitudes have changed since leaving the backwater which is Czestahowa. One of her good friends is a Polish hairdresser living in London. I don't know why he moved to London, but it could be because of respective attitudes toward homosexuality. Anyway, he has a very close relationship with his boyfriend/fiance which she respects in a way she couldn't have imagined previously. Likewise, I have a number of gay friends, and have a decent understanding of the nature of homosexuality.

Ignorant wind-up merchants such as Southern do not have a clue what they are talking about:

Guys you have to realize that the single and ultimate goal of all gay movements is to increase the number of lovers for gays in society.Let's look at statistics:About 35% of imprisoned men develop homosexual relationships but 95% of them do not remain gays when they get out of prison.Gays are aware of this fact.

This means that there is a latent population pool for gay lovers which can exceed to 30-40% of male population under special circumstances.So Sasha is right when he claims that parades etc actually support and spread gayness,it is not about showing themselves it is about increasing their lovers potential.

I would not deny that there might be a millitant "gay movement" aimed at achieving the above stated, but to actually think that is representative of homosexuals in general is laughable. I have gone for a drink with gay couples on a number of occasions and enjoyed my evening in the same way as drinking with heterosexual friends. Some people are so stupid, that they can't comprehend this, and are unable to view it as anything other than some kind of underhand gay conversion strategy.

Like I said, these people are incredibly stupid.
IronsE11   
14 Aug 2009
Life / Openly gay in Poland [245]

What rights, specifically, would you like to see gays have that they don't already?

I'm not referring specifically to legal rights (great strides have been made in this respect in more enlightened countries), only that gay people should have the right to lead their life as they please (within the confines of laws which apply to everyone else), without being discriminated against.

That is indeed what I am saying.

Do you think this reflects well on Poland? I understand that you are an enlightened individual who can see homosexuality for what it is (a subconscious state of being which is totally harmless to non-homosexuals and can't be passed on/taught/encouraged etc.), so does it sadden you that this is the case?

What exactly is it that makes you think that having more gays refusing to look and act like a normal person will make them any more likely to be treated as one?

What it needs is for intelligent and tolerant people to make a stand against it. Not for them to say "Oh well" they deserve it for dessing funny".

A) It seems that you have a nasty habit of putting words in my mouth (or whatever the online equivalent of this would be), please stop.

I don't intend to, I'm just inferring from your posts.

I'm not entirely sure what your argument is. Is it solely that homosexuality is not "normal"? If so, we've already established that a massive percentage of people can be defined as not "normal". Human beings can not be categorized as being standard or normal, so this particular argument is completely pointless wouldn't you agree? The argument is more specifically about whether homosexuals should be treated with the same respect as other people (say other not normal people such as the disabled or the ginger).

B) I'm not sure that the word 'condone' means quite what you think it does. I can't address this until I'm sure that it's actually what you meant to say.

Apologies, "won't condone" should read "won't condemn" or "appear to condone"

I agree that the red-hair gene is a recessive one, and people with ginger hair are consequently a minority. So you could say that it is not normal, yes.

Then back to the crux of our argument. Why do you consider it ok for J.K. Rowling to have not "normal" ginger characters in her books, yet you consider it to be a big problem that one of her characters is homosexual?

There are plenty of homosexual teachers in society, why is this a problem? Alastor Moody (Harry's Defence against the Dark Arts teacher in the Goblet of Fire) only has one eye! THIS IS NOT NORMAL! Do you have a big problem with this character only having one eye? If not, why not?
IronsE11   
14 Aug 2009
Life / Openly gay in Poland [245]

It was one such thing that some people like to call 'a rhetorical question'.

Then what exactly is your argument? If we are in agreement that you can't popularize homosexuality, what is the problem with affording homosexuals the same rights as anyone else?

But since we're talking specifically about Poland, I'll have to say that here, it's not.

That's fine. So what you're saying is that Poland has a disproportianately high number of people who think it is ok to discriminate against homosexuals? So Poland is very backward in this respect?

It's not a question of whether they have the right to; the fact is that they do.

I totally understand the concept. I wouldn't walk through some areas of London late at night chatting on my iphone as I am likely to be a victim of crime. That doesn't excuse the criminal, and that doesn't make it any less of a crime. It's like saying women who wear short skirts are asking to be raped!

It is also correct that that is exactly what I am discouraging.

If you're discouraging it, how exactly will attitudes ever change? Or are you happy that so many people in Poland are so ignorant? You don't believe in discrimination against homosexuals but you wont condone it?

That's the whole point. tolerance, whether you consider it a sickness or whatever

Amen.

Red hair in fiction is often used to depict 'fiery' emotional state and/or shortness of temper. Blond for weakness of character -or- emotional detachment(sp? also, see: Malfoys), black for cool and rational (Harry, his father, Snape). This actually does hold pretty well for all the Weasleys excepting Ron and his father. That since you asked.

Thanks for that. But you agree that red hair is not normal?
IronsE11   
12 Aug 2009
Life / Openly gay in Poland [245]

when you see a real debate to the effect that homosexuality (*gasp!*) is not actually normal

The debate has nothing to do with whether homosexuality is defined as "normal" or whether it should be described as an illness/defect/impairment etc.

normal:

–adjective
1. conforming to the standard or the common type; usual; not abnormal; regular; natural.
2. serving to establish a standard.

–noun
7. the average or mean: Production may fall below normal.
8. the standard or type.

Agreed, the average human being is not gay. It is not the standard nor the common type, therefore homosexuality could be described as "not normal". The same can be said of any disability, obesity, infertility, certain physical traits etc. People with ginger hair are not normal because they do not conform to the standard. Most humans do not have ginger hair. As ginger hair is not normal, it begs the question (as you seem to love the Harry Potter comparisons), why did J K Rowling decide to create several characters (The Weasleys) with ginger hair?

Precisely. It matters because that was the conditional for the latter half of the sentence:

So are you suggesting that because this doesn't make sense:

an entire crowd of (something like) absolutely normal people would be so intensely overjoyed at hearing that a character who is known for without question spending far more time than he logically should with a particular teenage boy is a closet homosexual.

It implies that the:

endorsement of things like 'Gay Pride' marches and the like can turn people gay.

is a viable theory?

Weak.
IronsE11   
12 Aug 2009
Life / Openly gay in Poland [245]

retarded talk... Who cares if he's gay or nor? The movie is rated PG so don't worry you won't see him having orgies etc. get over that already.

That's not the point michaltk. The real wory is that children will be converted to gay by the revelation that Dumbledore is a homosexual. Pan Kazimierz said so.
IronsE11   
12 Aug 2009
Life / Openly gay in Poland [245]

I want you to explain to me why an entire crowd of (something like) absolutely normal people would be so intensely overjoyed at hearing that a character who is known for without question spending far more time than he logically should with a particular teenage boy is a closet homosexual.

I don't know. Why the f**k does it matter? What does this have to do with your theory that people can catch or be indoctrinated with gay? Are you as upset at the thought of Hagrid spending more time than he logically should with Hermione? After all, he's a heterosexual male, and she's a young girl.

Ok, I'm just guessing here, but maybe Dumbledore spends a lot of time with Harry, because he is a very powerful young wizard with the power to help him defeat the Dark Lord Voldemort. Whether Dumbledore goes home and makes sweet wizard love to a fellow wizard or witch is neither here nor there. But for some bizarre reason you appear to take particular issue with it.

So then, keep in mind: the homosexual in question in this series is the headmaster of a presumably very large (apparently even international) school

So then, keep in mind: as Hogwarts is a presumably very large (apparently even international) school, the statistical chance of at least one of its many teachers being homosexual is quite large.

There are not many things like life which I like more than watching a homophobic moron making a complete fool of himself.

Just wait until he actually tries to back up his assertion, as opposed to banging on about totally irrelevant points relating to fictional novels about mythical wizards.
IronsE11   
12 Aug 2009
Life / Openly gay in Poland [245]

You really don't get it, still?

Yes I do. You have made a completely ignorant statement which you can not back up with any evidence or rational argument. When taken to task on this and asked to explain, you hide behind accusations of the straw-man defence and a play on your words.

I'll start explaining to you how endorsement of things like 'Gay Pride' marches and the like can turn people gay.

I'll ask again:

What is your reasoning for this assertion, and where is your evidence to back up this theory:

Address the complete sentence first

Ok then.

You tell me how that makes sense

I presume that this is in relation to the paragraph above it:

Now, at this point, were I there, I, like a sane, rational person, would be disgusted at the implications. I'd made (to be rude) jokes about his quite unusual relationship with and seemingly attatchment to what began as an 11-year-old boy, and still a minor throughout, but I'd always believed, in some corner of my mind, that the author would have the good sense not to publicly make them officially valid and effective.

Oh... so you want me to coment on your outrage that Dumbledore (a character in a fictional book)was revealed to be homosexual? You want me to comment on the fact that you had already joked about Dumbledore possibly being a paedophile, and that publicaly revealing him to be a homosexual actually makes these "jokes" valid and effective.

Actually, despite the moronic nature of what you have posted, I've already commented on it:

So let me get this straight. Because Dumbledore is gay, he is therefore a paedophile? And because such a central character in a best-selling kids book turns out to be gay, kids will be rushing to take up the "gay lifestyle" in their droves?

Little Johnny: "Dumbledore likes d1ck, I want to like d1ck too"
Little Jimmy: "Bend over Johnny"

And to think that you appear to actually believe this utter rubbish!

Ok, now I've addressed your complete sentence, how about you answer the question I have put to you and back up your theory.

Pass the popcorn aphrodisiac ;-)
IronsE11   
12 Aug 2009
Life / Openly gay in Poland [245]

^Good job repeating the exact same point, and therefore fallacy, as MG already did. Please address the complete sentence, rather than the latter (dependent) half alone.

I didn't even read his post. I was addressing the utter drivel you have posted. If you care to present your evidence for the following statement:

I'll start explaining to you how endorsement of things like 'Gay Pride' marches and the like can turn people gay.

I am all ears.

You can't possibly make more of a fool of yourself than you already have. But please try by all means.
IronsE11   
12 Aug 2009
Life / Openly gay in Poland [245]

I'll start explaining to you how endorsement of things like 'Gay Pride' marches and the like can turn people gay.

We wil never be able to enter in to a meaningful debate if you genuinelly believe this. As you constantly refer to homosexuality as an illness, then perhaps you can see how ridiculous it would be if I suggested that endorsing the disabled way of life (installing wheelchair ramps in public places or promoting the Paralympics for example) could "turn people disabled". Whether gentic, hormonal or otherwise, homosexuality is most certainly not something people choose to be. It is a subjective state of being. If you spoke to a number of homosexuals on the issue then you would understand this quite basic concept.

However, without conclusive evidence on the subject of what "causes homosexuality" I urge to actually speak to some homosexuals and ask them whether they turned gay, or whether they knew from a very early age that they were different (i.e. they didn't feel the attraction to the opposite sex that they were supposed to). A number of my homosexual firends have found the idea that they "chose" to be gay, or were converted to homosexuality through "endorsement of the gay way of life" absolutely laughable. If you actually suggested this to them, they would dismiss you as a ignorant moron who simply doesn't know what they are talking about.

If you can provide some evidence to back up your above assertion then feel free to share it. Otherwise, I'm inclined to go with what people with practical experience of the nature of homosexuality tell me.

So let me get this straight. Because Dumbledore is gay, he is therefore a paedophile? And because such a central character in a best-selling kids book turns out to be gay, kids will be rushing to take up the "gay lifestyle" in their droves?

Little Johnny: "Dumbledore likes d1ck, I want to like d1ck too"
Little Jimmy: "Bend over Johnny"

And to think that you appear to actually believe this utter rubbish!

Jesus wept.
IronsE11   
11 Aug 2009
Life / Openly gay in Poland [245]

Oh yes... yes please... oh no... you said nothing again. That reminded me of my good old times in kindergarten:

Hardly. I've backed up the points with sound reasoning. You have made assertions such as your classic "fake homosexuality" claim (which is frankly laughable), yet I fail to see the basis of your argument. Tell me, how many young adults do you know who have engaged in anal sex, or chosen to follow a homosexual lifestyle, purely because they thought it fashionable? Unlike you I know many gay people (I make this presumption based on your clear lack of understanding), and I have to say they would p1ss themselves laughing at what you have posted. Tell me Sasha, how many gay people do you know well?

You don't seem to catch my concept of localization.

Then explain it. How would you propose homosexuality be "localized"?

Excuse me guys I'm a bit tired of your... hm... limited capabilty of handling the incoming information.
I'm gonna ride my bike... :)
Take care!

OK mate, I appreciate your informed contribution to the debate. Make sure you remember to attach the stabilzers.
IronsE11   
11 Aug 2009
Life / Openly gay in Poland [245]

The only things I said was that they were ill.

It's not the only thing you've said though, is it now?

You've also advocated the ostracization of homosexuals and suggested that people can be indoctrinated with homosexuality ("fake homosexuality"). If only for the latter point, you've shown just how ignorant you are on the matter.
IronsE11   
11 Aug 2009
Life / Openly gay in Poland [245]

The problem about the real homosexuality is that it can generate among the youth (first and foremost) cases of the "fake homosexuality" when people want to be homosexual simply because it's a fashion (which was promoted by countless gay-parades and people like you who says it's normal).

This is a major problem with your argument. If you genuinelly think that people can become homosexual (i.e. they find members of their own sex physically atractive) purely because homosexuality is accepted by society, then you are totally ignorant in regards to the nature of homosexuality.

Pls feel free to "tear apart my pathetic argument".

It's already been done:

Secondly, what it is if not an illness if it prevents people to procreate and adapt?

Do you stand by this statement?

If so, do you believe that people who choose not to procreate or use contraception are ill? After all, you have defined something which "prevents people to procreate and adapt" as an illness.

And I showed the weak spot of your concept. Nobody wants to be blind, deaf, legless. Everybody knows that it's an impairment. Nobody says "it's alright". Other people are trying to help disable, support them, help them, cure them. Children won't grow up blind, deaf or legless just because they've seen such people on TV. Did you get the difference? Did you finally understand where the problem was? Do not say it is normal, do not promote homosexuality.

Again, you completely understand the nature of homosexuality. PEOPLE DON'T CHOOSE TO BE GAY. Normalizing or accepting homosexuality will not turn people gay, likewise, condemnation of homosexuality will not prevent homosexual tendencies occuring in humans. If you can grasp this very simple fact, you will understand that your argument is totally flawed.

Disability naturally occurs in humans yet disabled people are catered for and not ostracized. Why should gay people be treated diferently? Gay can't be cured, believe me, I know plenty of gay people who wish they weren't. Multiple Sclerosis can't be cured. When someone is diagnosed, should they then be "localized". Should we prevent disabled people from appearing on tv or interacting outside their community as to ensure that disability is not promoted? It's a ridiculous notion.

The healthy man needs none of those.

What about a man who fires blanks? Should he be "localized"? What if young kids get the idea of becoming "fake jaffas". What then?

Oh, guess you're right, then. OCD has no effect on people whatsoever, and is in no way a disease or impairment.

I didn't say that. You can define OCD however you want (disease, impairment, imperfection). I know people who are biologically overweight which acts as an impairment when running around a football pitch. I know people with a lower IQ than others which acts as an impairment in their dailly lives. The vast majority of humans have imperfections, what actually defines something as normal? How "stupid"do you have to be until you are classified as having "learning difficulties"?

Regardless of the above, how does homosexuality act as an impairment? Homosexuals can (and often do) have children, they just often chose not to (because they don't find woment atractive). Some heterosexual people make the same choice (not to have children) for different reasons (financial, personal etc.). What is the difference, and why should the former be ostracized for it? After all HOMOSEXUALITY NATURALLY OCCURS in humans and animals.

PAN, regardless of whether you define homosexuality as an illness, provide a good reason for the ostracization of homosexuals which goes beyond the already pedalled falsehood that acceptance of homosexuality is some form of indoctrination which can turn people gay!
IronsE11   
11 Aug 2009
Life / Openly gay in Poland [245]

A) OCD prevents people from eating with unwashed hands.
B) People with OCD have before eaten with unwashed hands.
C) By your logic, OCD is therefore not a disease, or just does not impair a person's ability to eat with unwashed hands.

How does OCD prevent people from eating with unwashed hands if people with OCD have eaten with unwashed hands? How does homosexuality stop people from reproducing when countless homosexuals have reproduced?

And to think that YOU accuse ME of using the straw-man defence! Laughable, you couldn't make it up. I have dismantled Sasha's argument which simply states (for the 4th time):

secondly, what it is if not an illness if it prevents people to procreate and adapt?

I am not arguing whether homosexuality should be defined as an illness or not, only that Sasha's definition is unapplicable. I am not refuting a "straw man" I am refuting a direct position taken by Sasha.

As stated before, the wider argument is not about how homosexuality is defined, but whether it should be normalized and accepted. I have used the concept of disability to illustrate why the "localization" of homosexuality is a ridiculous notion.

Reproducing, which homosexuality bars people from doing

Do you still stand by this rather comical assertion?

Do you understand the difference between "homo-" and "bi-"? C'mon it's your native tongue.

I understand perfectly.

I know plenty of homosexual people who have reproduced.

Yes homo-, Not bi-. Sexuality is a wide spectrum, but I wouldn't expect you wo be able to grasp that concept.

Look, there really is little point in continuing this argument, when you clearly have such poor knowledge of the subject matter. It may be the case that homosexuality is so repressed where you come from, that you have little or no experience of talking to (and therefore understanding) openly gay people.

People are scared of what they don't know or understand. Maybe I shouldn't be so hard on you, and for that I apologise.

If people have an issue with homosexuality then they are probably stupid, confused, uneducated or religious.

Quite.
IronsE11   
11 Aug 2009
Life / Openly gay in Poland [245]

That makes no sense at all!

It makes perfect sense. It's simply what is known as rampant homophobia, and is often evident in people who are backward, close-minded and/or incapable of rational analysis.
IronsE11   
11 Aug 2009
Life / Openly gay in Poland [245]

Sharp enough that your straw-man arguments and word games don't actually work on me. You're playing the "looks invincible on the surface" game. I'm well familiar with it.

Well provide a rational response then.

Your point is the equivalent of claiming that Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder is not a disease because people with it are capable of eating with their hands and using public washrooms when absolutely necessary, or that anyone who chooses to eat with fork and knife or use soap to wash their hands has OCD.

No it isn't. I think you have completely misunderstood. My point is merely to disprove the following statement as a response to the assertion that homosexuality is an illness:

Secondly, what it is if not an illness if it prevents people to procreate and adapt?

The wider argument has nothing to do with the definition of homosexuality as an illness regardless, it is about whether or not something should be normalized. I have already given an ironic view on the notion of "localizing" those with an illness/disability.

Reproducing, which homosexuality bars people from doing

As I have stated before, this is utter rubbish. I know plenty of homosexual people who have reproduced. Your entire argument is based on this falsehood.
IronsE11   
11 Aug 2009
Life / Openly gay in Poland [245]

By your reasoning, somebody with paranoid schizophrenia is just imaginative and careful.

Oh dear, we have another one. Please explain how my reasoning suggests that. I was refering specifically to a mindset which prevents procreation, in direct response to the following assertion:

Secondly, what it is if not an illness if it prevents people to procreate and adapt?

So if something prevents people procreating (i.e. contraception or a mindset which chooses not to procreate) it is therefore an illness? Come on Pan, it's not that hard to understand.

Instead, you call her a man. Very clever... you guys really do justice to your cause!

S(he) is registered as male on PF.

Not the sharpest tool are you? A tool nonetheless though.
IronsE11   
11 Aug 2009
Life / Openly gay in Poland [245]

A point which, along with every other one of Sasha's points, you have been quite unable to coherently and intelligently address.

IronsE11 GOLD MEMBER Edited by: IronsE11 Today, 12:47

IronsE11 GOLD MEMBER Today, 13:09

Adequately addressed.
IronsE11   
11 Aug 2009
Life / Openly gay in Poland [245]

By Sasha's reasoning, someone who chooses not to procreate (i.e. uses contraception) is mentally ill, as this mind set prevents procreation:

Secondly, what it is if not an illness if it prevents people to procreate and adapt?

Yet a homosexual who decides to procreate (but actually has a preference for d1ck) is not ill at all.

As the above stated concept has ruined his argument totally, it leaves him with no rational justification for his backward homophobia. As it may take him a while to come to terms with this fact, we should show him some respect this by giving him the time for quiet contemplation without tearing apart his pathetic argument any more.

Sincerely

Irons.
IronsE11   
11 Aug 2009
Life / Openly gay in Poland [245]

Excuse me are one of two who are under 18? Do you feel the difference between "I cannot" and "I do not want"?

But a homosexual could of course choose to have a child with a women. Many do, despite their sexual preference.

Secondly, what it is if not an illness if it prevents people to procreate and adapt?

On the contrary, it appears to be you who does not understand the difference between "I cannot" and "I do not want to"!

But as you're clearly a little bit simple I'll let you off.
IronsE11   
11 Aug 2009
Life / Openly gay in Poland [245]

according to Sasha, they are sick!

I'm genuinelly worried. I got a blow-job last night and it felt great. I come on PF this morning only to discover that I'm actually a sick man.

I'm going to ask my girlfriend to stop taking the pill immediately. Preventing pro-creation is not natural, and therefore should not be normalized. In fact, as a result of what I've learnt today, I'm going to have to abstain from sex altogether until I'm ready to start a family.