News / Do you think that Polish catholics resent the new German Pope? [108]

Good points all, lesser. It's not as if I felt that JPII was above Catholicism, just that as the leader of Catholics I've put him on a unrealistically high pedestal. As far as John Paul being a world leader, I see nothing wrong in recognizing that Catholics are different than others and yet still realizing that as humans we are all the same. John Paul never forsake Catholicism while he was traveling around uniting people, he simply embraced the fact that despite differences in faith people should get along.

I had read somewhere (I'll look for the link) that if John Paul didn't approve of Harry Potter, he certainly didn't disapprove, stating more or less that imagination is good for children.

On that subject, I've only read one Harry Potter book and enjoyed it, I suppose. They certainly aren't outwardly anti-Catholic, but they are about magic and supernatural powers, some of which flies in the face of what Catholics think of God. But, I feel that kids know the difference between fiction and faith.

News / What do Polish friends think of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton? [226]

I feel Obama and McCain have the best ideas concerning Poland. Clinton, who I like and is the only one of the three to physically visit the place, seems to misunderstand the cultural differences between the two countries. Poland isn't America, nor does it want to be, nor can you treat her like she is America. The people are different and different strokes are needed. Her encouragement for socalled "increased feminism in Poland" missed the mark, in my opinion. I'm not a woman nor would I presume to know what's best for them, so I could be wrong, but from what I know about Polish feminism its very different from American feminism. There is more on Obama on why the Polish News is supporting him. Here is the NY Times write up of Clinton's trip to Poland ten years ago, I couldn't find anything on McCain but if you all want to buy some Obama crap for your kid you can do so here though I wouldn't recommend it.

News / What do Polish friends think of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton? [226]

No, I get that, I understand that completely, Jones101. Sadly, both Poland and American Polonia don't have the political clout to make any real policy demands. But since this thread is what it is, I decided to throw that out there. Also, Poles in America, if you are basing your vote purely on the candidates stance on Poland, please reconsider. I know we all love Poland, I love her as much as anyone, but there are more pressing issues in this election than US relations with the old country. I'm sure this doesn't apply to anyone, but please consider other issues beyond US-Poland relations.

Life / Grafitti in Warsaw [44]

I can't speak for Polish grafitti, and I agree that there is a such a blurry line concerning grafitti as art, but in America a lot of these taggers don't have a chance to express themselves artistically, grafitti is the one way they can create. I live in Los Angeles and I'm often taken aback by the beauty and originality of some of the work. It's easy to say all grafitti is rubbish, but consider the purpose and intent before you make blanket statements about the subjective world of art. Great art was never meant to have "respect for others," it is to challenge and push boundaries and that includes canvases. Most of these artists were denied the means to express themselves in the critic's "traditional" ways because they weren't deemed intelligent or refined enough, so this is the result. Also, comparing spray painting a bridge with mass murder and sexual perversion is irresponsible and wrong.

Life / Grafitti in Warsaw [44]

I would prefer to come from a country that doesn't cane and beat it's creative people and artists. No one is condoning personal property vandal, I'm talking street and bridge art.

Life / Grafitti in Warsaw [44]

If you dislike it on public property but have no problem with the form or tone of the work than support organizations that create sanctioned areas and venues for these people to express themselves that wont mess with your precious overpasses. Here are a few:

graffitiresearchlab.com
urbanartwarfare.com/blog/
urbanartnetwork.com/pdx/

Life / Grafitti in Warsaw [44]

My point with the links was that you seem to only dislike graffiti because of where it is conveyed, those were options to change its venues. I think you make great assumptions when you equate violent crimes (which are destructive) with graffiti (which is, at its core, creative). As I've already noted that I don't support private vandalization and for a myriad of other reasons, I won't post my or anyone else's address here. However, as it doesn't appear either of us can convince each other of our point of view, we'll have to agree to disagree, my only request would be to be wary of suppressing expression, no matter how invalid you may perceive it to be. With suppression, often nonviolent "criminals" can become violent criminals.

News / Do you think that Polish catholics resent the new German Pope? [108]

Well put, matthias. I wouldn't dream of disregarding Pope Benedict simply because he's German. But Poles, who in an inconsistent political landscape have always been consistently Catholic, had so much pride in John Paul II. Let us not forget that Solidarity might not have happened if it weren't for the elation and national pride that swelled with the Pope's election and visit in the late '70's. Polish Catholicism have survived three partitions, Nazism, and Soviet Communism, all that were out to destroy it. The Vatican, itself, abandoned Poland a few times, and yet it survived. It's not that we RESENT the German Pope, its just that John Paul II meant so much to us.

Life / Grafitti in Warsaw [44]

Right, I'm glad we understand each other...

News / Do you think that Polish catholics resent the new German Pope? [108]

Bravo, Julie. I don't think there's anything wrong with Poles having a special place for JPII that no other man or Pope can replace. He meant so much to Poland, for us there is John Paul II and then there is every other Pope. No disrespect, but JPII is on a different level.

History / How long was Poland "lost in history"? [21]

You could even argue that Poland has been lost to history even before the partitions in the late 18th century. Everyone is familiar with Poland's suffering in the Second World War but how many know of its history before that. Poland was one of the most powerful nations of Europe for 700 years and all this is forgotten because of the 123 years it didn't exist. People think of Russia and Germany as "historic powers" but few know that Poland predates both of those empires. There is a western assumption that Poland has always toiled under the yoke of outside governments but there was a time when Poland control its own and other's destinies. This has been lost to history.

Life / What people from Poland know about South America? [15]

I'm a Polish-America and I would say of the 7 continents, I know the least about South America (except for Antarctica, of course). That's not to say I don't know much, I had a few friends who visited Argentina and Brasil and they had a fabulous time. It's a very beautiful area with a rich and ancient history. I feel South America, like Africa, often doesn't get the status it deserves.

History / Poland Betrayed in WW2 [243]

For my part, I'm a member of the Polish American Congress in Southern California. Our goals are meagre at best, we don't have a lot of political clout but one of our main objectives, which is the committee I'm on, is to have Polish history taught a little better in American schoolbooks. Polish history is nearly ignored in American schools. Our objective is NOT to supersede American history or British History or French History (all of which are understandably more relevant to American history) but to add a little more about Poland than "On September 1, 1939 Germany invaded Poland and conquered it in two weeks." The End. I took a AP course (AP, in case you don't know means Advanced Placement, in American high schools it is the equivalent of a college course) in European History from 1200-Present and Poland was scarcely mentioned with zero, I repeat ZERO mention of the partitions. This is irresponsible.

News / How to call non-Poles ? [32]

Non-Poles? I call them unfortunate beings.

History / Poland Betrayed in WW2 [243]

First of all, thank you, matthias, I've really enjoyed being on the forum. It gives me great joy to keep my finger on the pulse of Polonia abroad as well as in Poland. In reference to you puzzlement of Polish-Americas political insignificance, I think a lot of it has to do with the political turmoil of Poland over the last 200 years when Poles were moving to America in mass numbers. A generation of Poles like the ones in my family who moved here in the 1870's would be completely different from the millions of displaced persons who came here after WWII. Each generation has different political goals and needs, there is no binding tie other than being Polish. Our contributions have been cultural and scientific but because of our inability to get along with each other they have not been political. Also, distance and language barriers which exist for Polish immigrants and not for Latinos or Irish immigrants should be taken into consideration. If anyone has the wonderful book "Gods Playground" by Norman Davies, the chapter in the second Volume entitled "The Polish Emigration" has a section on the disunion of Polish America. It does a better job at explaining than I do.

History / Poland Betrayed in WW2 [243]

Well the book is an all around history of Poland (the ABSOLUTE best English language Polish history book. It's author, Norman Davies is the premiere English speaking Polish historian, he has a few books on Poland but "God's Playground" is the comprehensive overview) it's very dry (it's basically a text book, after all) and hard to come by (if your Borders has it, it's probably only the second volume which is 1795-Present, the first volume is Origins-1795 and is very hard to come by) but it is an exhaustive study of the history of Poland and is completely objective (written by an Englishman) it gives credit where it is do and points out myths and faults when they are present. A easier, more pro-Polish history book is "The Polish Way" by Adam Zamoyski. I also enjoyed reading "The Poles" by Steven Stewart, which is an excellent history of the Solidarity Period with historical references dropped in, but good luck finding that one, I'm sure it's out of print. But, if your only question is Polish America, "Gods Playground" only spends a few paragraph's on that subject, I'd much rather just type out the paragraphs here than have you spend 30 bucks for a little illumination.

Life / What people from Poland know about South America? [15]

Poles and South Americans have a linked history. Of course, Napoleon sent his Polish forces to the Dominican Republic to fight of the rebels, and many Poles ended up joining the rebels cause (if they didn't die of malaria first). In Brazil, there are many Poles in Parana, Rio Grande do Sul, and Catarina. The Poles of these regions sent volunteer armies to Europe to fight for Poland in both WWI and WWII.

History / Some names to the faces of brave Poles during WW2 German Invasion [24]

Terrible but great read, Julie. Such suffering, but important to know. Thanks for posting.

News / What do Polish friends think of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton? [226]

I pray you don't get too bold, szczery, suggesting that you know what all Blacks will and will not do. Dangerous business.

News / What do Polish friends think of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton? [226]


It's "safe" to say that ALL black people would vote for a crackhead simply because he's black? I wonder what would be considered an "unsafe" assumption.

History / WW2: Britain Declares War on Germany to Save Poland [290]


Well, Poles didn't seem to have much trouble fighting for Britian all during World War II. There were many Polish squadrons that fought for Britain and in Britain, as well as Polish troops that fought for other countries. Listen, I'm not knocking England but to say that the UK did Poland a big favor by declaring war on Germany is a bit much. It's arguments like this that tear me up:


Oh, I'm so sorry to inconveinance you while Poland was getting systemically destroyed from both East and West. How terrible for us to have "dragged" Britain into this war that saw one out of every 5 Poles killed. How selfish of us. Look, I'm American and the USA did just as bad a job of letting an ally fight for herself against two superpowers, and tornado, all those points you mentioned are valid. I don't blame England for not wanting to take on Germany, Poland didn't want to either. I mean, in the end, we were all fighting on the same side, but I don't want to be told that the great Western liberators kept Poland afloat when they didn't. All those paper leaflets during the Warsaw Rising did us a heap of good, thanks.

History / Poland Betrayed in WW2 [243]

Katyn is just the tip of the iceberg, celinski. Stalin might have killed more Poles than any other man. Just terrible. The Kruk, I've got a list of good books but it's not with me I can get you a pretty good list in a few hours though, they are out there. Off the top of my head, there is a fascinating book called "The Long Walk" by Slavomir Rawicz which is a memoir of a Polish calvary officer who was sent to Siberia during WW2 and how he and some others escaped. It's an absolute great read. It's not an overall history of Poland under Stalinism but it's a little microcosm of the terror. Also, I can't recommend "God's Playground" by Norman Davies highly enough. It's greatest Polish history book in English. The Polish version is used as a textbook in many Polish schools now. It's fair, objective, and accurate. Again, it isn't simply about Stalinism but it goes into that period in detail.

History / Poland Betrayed in WW2 [243]

Poland can't forget. We won't let it. We are a nation that knows what it's like to not exist. This is a terrible burdon on a phsyche. People have moved on, but they are guarded because while Poland is free now, there have been times when her freedom has been taken from here. Poles prominently focus on the positives of Poland and being Polish, but when the country has stood as the battle ground for so many European contests there are aspects that always stay with you.

News / Polish leader promises compensation for confiscated propery in Poland [17]

Good for Tusk. I don't know where the money is going to come from, but this is a positive step towards healing.

News / What do Polish friends think of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton? [226]


I hope you're right, Dice, but history is not on your side on this one. America is horribly racist and sexist. I like Obama but I'm not sure the nation is ready for a Black president. I pray that I'm wrong.


I'm with you Julie, but I'm afraid there's been too much ugliness between the two of them. Clinton with here disgusting assertions of Obama being a Muslim, Obama firing back. All this infighting is just weakening the Democrats cause, so much that a "dream ticket" of Obama/Clinton or vice versa seems like a pipe dream. The Dems need to get together, pick a candidate and move on to taking on McCain. If people don't think McCain has a chance, they are dreaming. Republicans ALWAYS campaign better than Dems.


I don't know if we should be "thankful" for the murder and forceful relocation of millions of people.

Life / I'm an American who lived in Poland for 6 years. I'm not welcome anymore. [169]


I think icypole's point is that when Poles came here, they were allowed in openly (as were all Europeans) but the often they were treated poorly by the populace, being called "dumb Polaks" and so forth. This happened to the Irish and Italians as well.

Life / How do Polish people view themselves? [92]

I feel with Polish people, especially abroad, it's not that we believe we're superior or that Poland is better than any other nation, it's just that Poland, while important historically, is very ignored in today's political/cultural atmosphere. I'm speaking from an American perspective but where comparable immigrant groups like Irish and Italians are celebrated and focused on (if you don't believe me, remind yourself what day next Monday is), Poland is like another planet that nobody knows about. Often times, I've gone too far with my "Polishness" for this reason. It's not that were arrogant (or at least I try not to be) its just that we are proud to be Polish, even if nobody else cares.

History / Poland Betrayed in WW2 [243]


It certainly is incredible, but I've never heard that it's made-up. What are you basing this on?

History / Poland Betrayed in WW2 [243]

Interesting, szkotja2007. I hadn't heard that before. Makes you think. I'd like to believe the book, but alas, what can you believe nowadays? Next, you'll be telling me Wojtech the Soldier Bear is made up.

USA, Canada / Polish People in St. Louis [2]

There are more than a few Poles in St. Louis, it being a good ol' Catholic town. I used to live there and some of my family is still there, it's one of America's great cities. There is a Polish church downtown called St. Stanislaus Kostka Chucrh at 1413 N. 20th St. There's a great site borawski.net/polishstlouis] - here that lays out quite a bit of the Polish organizations and clubs in the Lou. Also, if you go to Busch Stadium downtown and look in the front you'll see a giant statue of a Polish man.

[upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/dd/Musial_statue.JPG/450px-Musial_statue.JPG] - Here.