Life / Moving a family to Poland, any info, advice needed [51]

Me and my family are moving to Poland too. My wife is Polish, we have two small children 2 and 4, and I'm American. We will probably move to Krakow in May and we too are thinking of getting into the coffee business. Our move is motivated by getting the best quality of life for our children. We estimate that 9000zl a month is what we need to get us settled. Then, after we are there for a while, we'll adjust that amount to fit our needs. Less is always better.

Life / Moving a family to Poland, any info, advice needed [51]

Wow Polak, I thank you for your time. You are right, making money in the states is fairly easy. But the quallity of life is deceiving. And by far, the easiest thing to get here is into debt. Anything you want to buy is right here waiting for you, and the bank is begging for you to do so. It is very materialistic here, and unlike Poland, there is no comradere in the despair and frustrations. My family and I are looking for a place where my kids can spend time with their grandparents, can attend cultural events without angst (financial or sellouts), and my wife and I can try a new business.

We visit Poland once or twice and year, and my kids are bilingual. We are in love with Poland and all it has to offer. If we decide to try, I won't be too surprised if we fail. At least we will have another family experience under our belt.

From what I have seen, the larger cities in Poland are doing well. There isn't much poverty, the stores are well stocked, people are well dressed, the hotels are often full, the property prices continue to rise, the cars are all in good shape and people are well educated. This all points to a society that is getting an ever increasing amount of expendable income. I understand that the national unemployment is large, I also understand that Poland has only been a member of the EU for 3 years and was independent from Communism for only 15 years before that. There are 38 million people there that are strong minded and have a lot of national pride.

I meet a lot of Poles around New York that have decent manual labor jobs, work very hard, but I'm not always sure what they are working for. Some of the smart ones save thier money and move back to Poland. Some start successful businesses, or educate themselves and get good jobs. Mostly, I see the kids of immigrants well intrenched in the American dream. That of course is progressively more and more elusive. The rich get richer, the poor get poorer and middle class works more and more. This overworked middle class gets brief respite in consumerism; only to become more deeply entrenched in a rut, with less choices.

We are exploring the idea of living in Poland because we feel there are more oportunities in it's furtile growth than most countries. We lived in Costa Rica last year and found it too hot and too difficult to make a living. CR is a much better place to retire than Poland because if I ever get to that age my tired bones will welcome the warmth. But in the mean time, I love the seasons of the north.

Well bla bla bal. I may be insane for even entertaining the idea of moving, but I'll know in the next couple weeks. Hopefully I will have rented an apartment by June. My daughter is already enrolled in a school for September, there is a meet and greet at the end of May, and we don't want to miss the Dragon parade in Krakow.

Did I just write my opus to move?

Life / Moving a family to Poland, any info, advice needed [51]

My wife warned me about the xenophobes and other racists. 3 out of 4 of my family are Polish citizens, are we welcomed only in Chicago?

I don't want to engage in a useless battle of education, ignorance and immigration, I only wish I have the opportunity to spend time with people like most of you.

Headstrong, thank you for starting this thread, I would like to hear more about your thoughts, frights and time line.

Life / Moving a family to Poland, any info, advice needed [51]

Polak, you raise a lot of valid points but you seem to believe that UK or USA are some flawless places with no health, retirement or war issues. May I remind you that not so long ago people in London were afraid to get on the tube? I was in NY city when the towers fell down and milions of people lost jobs, businesses lost offices and all their property and many lost someone very close.

Six years later, people come up who suffer from cancer, that developed while they were performing clean up work at Graound 0. Those people are the Poles, the Hispanics and the Albanians. There is no medical help for them because not enough reaserch was done to prove that cancer is directly related to clean up work at Ground 0.

A lot of the Polish people I know in NY have very bad health insurance or none. A lot of my friends decide to work crappy, unsatisfactory, boring jobs just to have the security of health insurance. They go to Poland in the summer to take care of their health needs. Is this a way to live? I pay for my health insurance $680 a month which is the cheapest to get and it is not very good. The better ones are $1200 a month. I don't have dental care, optometrist, rehabilitation, psychiatric etc. I have to pay for presctiption medications or even an ambulance out of pocket (not a small change). Ride in an ambulance (3 miles) $1200 !!!

There is lots of flaws in the health system. I could tell you lots of stories that would make you think going to the doctor in Poland is great.

I have learned to navigate the system by now but I paid my tuition.

As for the Polish doctors working in the UK, I know they do that but only for the weekend or a shift here and there. Those docs still work for the Polish hospitals, see patients privately and educate themselves in Poland. I know that from the docs. My mom has a private clinic and lots of great specialists work for her, live in Poland and just go abroad for conference or occasional shifts. I am not saying it is good that they have to do that but it is not all that terrible.

I assume you do not have children, Polak? Headstrong and I do. Childcare is very expensive in the US. If you want to continue to work as a woman and have noone to help you, you have to hire strangers to raise your children. Most of my friends in Poland do not have to worry about it. There is always grandma around to help. I have to take my kids with me everywhere. (dentist, OB, hairdresser, grocery shopping, jogging). Have you ever jogged with a child??? It is not much fun.

Last time I was in Poland my cousins and friends with children just dropped the kids off at grandma and went to see a movie? I was shocked how easy that was. I have to arrange for a babysitter, pay her at least $10 per hour and worry all the time if my kids are OK. Thoughts like is this girl honest, will she know what to do in case of emergency etc.

and going to see a movie is more stressfull than fun.
I can go on for hours about other things (consumerism in America, overblown competitiveness at school, workplace, bad nutrision at schools and how to get anything good you have to pay hefty ($14.000-20.000 per year for a good private school for a 4 year old!!! ) it is great to come and make the $$$ and bring those back (although the slipping $ makes me wonder. It is 2.9 to the zloty now!!!)

Let me know which subjects would you like me to ellaborate on.
Headstrong, we should talk. I might have some helpful info for you about schools for kids and other things.

Life / Moving a family to Poland, any info, advice needed [51]

Oh boy...you are some angry person with a lot of venom. Actually I come to Poland twice a year. I was born, raised and finished college there I am very educated about the situation there and see things quite dirreretntly. I opened a business there and it is doing quite well so far. I pay only half of the ZUS for 2 years. It is a new incentive for young people to open businesses. It helps.

As for the grandmas in America- they either live too far or don't want to care for their grandkids. It is their right. They come to the gym and have lunch with their friends and travel.

Young people have to get independent fast...pretty much at 16 everybody works (after school or between classes). I did so as well and in Poland many young people do not want to work and expect God knows what?

There are opportunities for the educated and hardworking but surely none for the lazy and dumb ones.
By te way your discouraging comments are really sad for people like me who want to do something good in Poland and come back to their home country with new insight and ideas.

wish you luck with that kind of attitude !

Life / Moving a family to Poland, any info, advice needed [51]

thanks for reminding me about the personal goals. it is easy to loose sight of it once you start listening to other people's opinions. People who aren't like you and want different things from life. Our family spend last winter in Costa Rica and it was great but not for us. There were many Americans, Europeans and Canadians living there permanently. They found their paradise.

Thanks for your insight.

Life / Moving a family to Poland, any info, advice needed [51]

Headstrong, you asked at the beginning about some sort of numbers on how much do you need to live in Poland. we found this spreadsheet listing all the expenses for 3 life options n 3 major cities (Krakow, wroclaw and Gdansk). If i find the web site I will forward it. The gist is per month: extravagant life you need ($3.700) that includes car and car payments and all car expenses / Less extravagant ($1.693) with a cheaper car and you can make it for ($656) without a car.

As far as automatic transmission cars those are available but best purchased new. and those tend to be expensive. sometimes you may have to wait a bit to get the car since stick rules in poland. I have no idea why. You may want to consider shipping your car from Canada. I did that and I am very happy when I go there now. You do not pay customs or vat on it. It falls under relocation property. I can ellaborate if you are interested.

Also depending on the timeline of your move, you may want to take care of the schools. Application process even for the private schools has already started in February. I missed some great places for my daughter but I was still able to find a good one. So I hope.

On a positive note I found great cultural stuff for kids in Krakow and the dragon parade is a must. I can't wait. Hope you can make it.

Here is the link:

groteska.pl/aktualnosci_akt2.php?id=82&PHPSESSID=52f3cb0d79 bae354b4068a42b4f6066d

Life / Moving a family to Poland, any info, advice needed [51]

plg -souds like you are in love. Good luck with the Polish. My American husband is trying to firuge it out how to use our 4 year old for translatons while living in Poland. They have conversations about it. It is very cute.

Love / Illegal Polish girl wants me to marry her for citizenship [124]

Misiu 28 I am polish, maried to an american for love.
Did not run away.
Came here 7 years ago and it has been a fight all the way, went to school here, worked, now I have two small kids and I am thinking of going back. I miss family, friends and simple things like delicious bluberries or polish parties. I want to do a fun businss there but people are so discouraging and disgustingly complaining about everything that I am getting scared and second guessing myself.

For the girl who wants to marry for papers - have a sincere talk with her. It is tough in the US without the pepers..life slaps you on every corner and maybe she needs a helping hand.

However, the immigration is a pain so it is up to you if you want to do all that work for $7000. Rent the movie "the Green Card' for fun and to give you an idea.

To contradict myself a bit, i must say that I woul'd be thrilled if my husband had to mess with another woman from the past about fake marriage.

Things could get complex if you met someone after you made that "fake deal" (that's not quite clear either if it is fake on her side??) and suppose met another lovely Polish girl who loved you and you loved her and you did want to get that thing legalized and hurrry up and have lots of little ones. then you would have hands tied behind your back.

well, it is tough

Make sure she really has no feelings for you any more. women don't say what they think..sometimes and Polish women are proud and sensitive.

I had a friend and she struggled in NY without the papers working restaurants, going back to school to prolong her student visa, living in crappy places etc She met someone she cared for but he did not come up with the marriege thing for a few years and they split up. She told me that she was pondering asking him to marry her for papers because you can't ask a guy "marry me for real" but she was afraid that NO would mean the end of their romantic relationship. She moved out of NY to London because she couldn't take it any more. I know he went to London to see her ..so there was something on both sides.

anyway good luck

TO white Sox - Congrats on your American Dream. It is always nice to hear.
it is a great place but not everyone is lucky like you. There is plenty of immigrants who work boring jobs, eat themselves to death at their desks or in their cars, live in tough hoods or suburbs, neglect their kids because of their work hours 6-10PM and commut for 3-4 hours a day. I happened to work in courts and saw lots of -call them misfits ...or loosers, or plainly misplaced or maybe greedy or lonely..whatever.

US is great but maybe not for everyone.
Have a good one.

Life / Moving a family to Poland, any info, advice needed [51]

Hello all, my wife started using my profile name when she saw what I was writing. A few comments fired her up. We are in motion to move to Krakow in May'ish. I'd love to talk to Dieter or Headstrong about business. My hope is that we can make food, clothing and shelter; then spend the rest of the time together as a family. And have fun.