News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


I would like to see statistics. I would bet a months wages that Polish children are more savvy in European history than average European.

News / Polish-Hungarian friendship - reality till today or just a phantasmagoria [144]


Nope, different woman each time : )

News / Polish-Hungarian friendship - reality till today or just a phantasmagoria [144]


A rather silly question...
Hungarian women won all the Miss World competitions held from 1989 to 1995. They are well regarded for their good looks.
Do you get out often, krakow?

I was engaged to a Hungarian woman, it feels like centuries ago. She was stunning, but one of the most difficult women I have ever met.

Didn't quite work out ; )

News / Polish-Hungarian friendship - reality till today or just a phantasmagoria [144]


Especially beautiful Hungarian women.

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


You see, this is the difference. Russian plans for Poland did not include a mass extermination as in Hitler's agenda.
Polish intelligentsia was to go, of course. A must purge in Stalin's plans, even in Russia. It would surely not have been pretty, but a lot less harsh than Hitler nonetheless.

I would take my chances with the psychotic Stalin, anyday, before Hitler.

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


Can you answer my question? I am a practical person.

My question, would Poland have lost as many lives in a full Soviet occupation?
Strictly numbers.

Would the Soviets still agree on sharing Poland with Germany if they were ceded this territory in early 1939?

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


So tell me, you think that with full Russian occupation, Poland would have lost the millions of lives it did by fighting both the Nazi's and Russian's, and having to suffer barbaric occupation from both?

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


No. I am very practical in my outlook. The Soviets would have invaded Poland regardless. My point is that if the Poles were allied to Soviet Russia in 39, the end result would have been milder treatment for Polish prisoners on the Eastern Front. Perhaps it would not have changed the result in 1945, but Poles would have suffered sufficiently less. Give up the territory, and let Russian troops occupy the area to deter Hitler. Ride the Soviet bear out as long as you can.

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


lol... ok, Seanus. Just tell me one thing, because I really don't want to argue with a ill-informed person right now.

Can you give me one good reason as to why Wałęsa hired former communists from the SB as bodyguards after he came to power? The same men that had just been his guards while he was imprisoned?

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


Yeah, this coming from a guy who thinks Wałęsa is innocent of all charges... amusing.

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]

CONCLUSION

Poland should not have counted on direct aid from France or England, and should have instead concentrated on a Soviet defensive pact in the mid 30's.

England obviously was in no position to provide assistance in Septmber 1939, and any military assistance which was given, was understandably negligeable.

France surrendered and the Vimy government collaborated with the Nazi's. Why isn't anyone angry with France, if they are angry with England?

Polish armies fled after putting up a good fight, to avoid sure imprisonment and death, to go fight in almost every other WW2 theatre, and were key contributors in many battles and operations. What were they fighting for? Obviously, a free Poland, which is undeniably linked to a free England, free France etc...

Moral of the story: EVERYONE ALWAYS LOOKS AFTER THEIR OWN FUCKING BUSINESS FIRST

Now, can we just shut this topic now? The longer it goes on, the more I am embarassed for all of your behaviour.

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


lol... please Seanus, spare us this garbage. Do you even know the facts behind this?
Wałęsa has his feet deep in shit with undisputable evidence that he was wrapped up with former Commies. There are dozens of others just like him that are just as worthy to be the symbol of Solidarnosc and a Nobel Peace Prize, which in my mind isn't much anyway, and who kept themselves honest while doing so.


I don't know, and I don't care for it, either. Could someone just close this fucking topic before my head explodes?

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


Or France, or the Soviet Union?

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


Another noimmigration?

Go be with your butt-buddy you racist asshole.

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]

VaFunkoolo, you are quite a twat, aren't you?


So do you feel that a lot of Britons feel the same way you do, that selling their soul and joining the Nazi's would have been the correct thing to do?

Just one more question for you Harry, as you do seem to show some sympathy for Jews, maybe not for Poles, tell me why the allies did not bomb German railroad systems leading to Auschwitz and other concentration camps? It could have saved many Jews, and perhaps irritatingly for you and your kind, saved many Poles too, from getting the gas chamber.

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


Relative.


Solely? Of course not. I am not a proponent of such logic...
I was merely responding to a statement that "Poland did fuk all for anyone" during World War 2.

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]

And Poles, they were treated well in Germany?

From your own source...


So whats your point? Both minorities were ill-treated in each country. What else is new?


If it was only because of the Treaty that Austrians resisted, then why were up to 70,000 thousand political prisoners sent to concentration camps right after the hero Hitler marched in? There was probably 5 times that number of opponents to anschluss in Austria.

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


What about them? You know well enough that Austrian ambitions for anschluss evaporated in the early 1920's. They wanted to stay independent, Bratwurst.
Wasn't it Chancellor Schushnig that called a plebiscite and asked:
"Do you want a Free, German, Independent and Social, Christian and United Austria?"
The overwhelming answer was yes! Hitler forced anschluss down Austrian throats.

You speak of Sudetenland as if the Germans were being molested there. They were very happy to be part of Czechoslovakia. Hitler again created disaffection by creating the German Sudeten Party and distorting those Germans' views.


A different case. But German and Polish populations co-existed in relative peace.


Rather unfortunate, but even this could not have led to WW2 on its own.


And you hold the view that nothing could have been done to prevent war because of the treaty?

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


Folk hero's and martyrs are easily forgotten when someone else is the bread winner... If enough jobs and money was flowing into the economy, someone like Hitler would be in the backseat.




Then tell me, my realistic German friend, how would you have done it?

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


80 million, yes, but many of whom are not yet supporting Hitler. Like I said, this could be done quite quickly with no bloodshed. 18.3% of the popular vote, as mentioned, in late 1932. That isn't much, and I doubt that many Germans would see him or the Nazi's as martyrs. Many of them were trying to grasp power themselves, like the Communists, etc.. I would stage assassinations of Hitler and some of his high ranking officers before the invasion, using a few communists, and then disposing the communist killers afterwards as well.

Money should have been poured into all sectors to stabilize the reformed centrist-socialist govermenent. Allied forces would have been called out as soon as possible so that German citizens can see their own German army.

Bratwurst, I still do not understand why you are so skeptical about anything to do with this. You seem to be very unflexible in your outlook. The Nazi's could have been stopped, man.

Economic reforms and a relatively nationalistic platform could have been present in a democratic Weimar govermnent too. Von Papen could have been a strong figure in reviving Germany, rather than the madman Hitler. With some better decision making, and the taking of a few lives, Europe could have been saved from 6 years of war and millions of lives!

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


This, I would call for as a last resort. If it became clear that Hitler would gain power, invasion would be necessary.

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


Look, I was in partial agreement with you guys over Poland caring more for a free Poland, than anything else, and in fact, this is a normal sentiment, is it not?

But to deny that they did not at least help along the wars final outcome and the well-being of the allies (the latter being involuntary, in some cases) is quite an ignorant affirmation. Polish free forces were one of the largest, and they fought everywhere, from Italy to the Netherlands, to North Africa, and yes, FOR THEIR OWN country.

The Polish armed forces in the west fought under the British command and numbered 195,000 in March 1944 and 165,000 at the end of that year, including about 20,000 personnel in the Polish Air Force and 3,000 in the Polish Navy.

England may have had the industry to match Germany later in the war, but they surely did not have the man power to man their machines.

You would be either a liar, or mentally challenged to state that Poland did 'fuk all for anyone.'
I could direct you to a few grave sites in Italy or the Netherlands if you want, and you can go visit my relatives. I'm sure they didn't think their efforts were aimed at only a free Poland.

A few of the battles Polish forces took part in:

British campaign in Norway (Battle of Narvik)
French Campaign
Battle of Britain
Battle of the Atlantic
Battle of Tobruk
Operation Jubilee (Battle of Dieppe)
Battle of Lenino
Battle of Normandy (D-Day)
Battle of Monte Cassino
Battle of Falaise
Operation Market Garden (Battle of Arnhem: "A Bridge Too Far")
Battle of Ancona
Battle of Bologna
Battle of Berlin
Prague Offensive
Polish underground actions:
Operation Tempest (Burza)
Operation Ostra Brama
Lwów Uprising
Warsaw Uprising


After Hindenburg appointed Bruning as chancellor, he called an election to consolidate his government, and Nazi vote was still only 18.3% at the time.

The earlier the allies would have fully supported the Weimar, perhaps not even militarily, the better it would have been for everyone. The problem is that no one really saw Hitler as a threat until it was too late. Anyway, an assassination could have easily been organized secretly between the radical communists. Communists then could have been put to the stake for their involvement in such an assassination by the Weimar Republic.

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


Bratwurst, are you in denial that the majority of Germans were still centrist-socialist at this time? The numbers after Hitler combines chancellor-president offices in 1933, are distorted. In fact, I even doubt Hitler had popular vote until 1934 or 1935. Communist party still held a lot of seats until Hitler outlawed them, and there were many powerful monarchists in the backdrop too.

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]

... and you've donated to this forum, why?
Why do you even post here, tosser?

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


You can hardly call 1933 Germany an industrial superpower...
If France and Englands presidents would have been blessed with half the balls and foresight of Pilsudski, they would have invaded Germany and disbanded the Nazi party, perhaps stage an assassination of Hitler and some of his brass, and supported the re-creation of a centrist-socialist govermnent, as well as provide financial assistance to the country while it got up on its own two feet.

The Nazi popular vote was still quite low at the time, and the later numbers became manipulated and distorted. There isn't any doubt that the majority of Germans were still leaning towards a socialist govermnent in 1932-33.There were already signs of what was to come if one was to look closely, but the allies were too busy later with their policy of appeasement to bother. Pilsudski's dies, and the rest is history.

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]

Well, its worth giving it a thought. Perhaps yes, it would have been best solution for Poles in 1939. But there was still some animosity felt between the two since Polish-Soviet war. Its much easier talking about it now, then it would have been back then. I'm not sure they would be able to settle their differences for one goal. And I'm also not sure if Poland would be able to provide Stalin with attractive terms in creating such an alliance.

Attack Germany, France, Spain? Soviets would be overstretching themselves, and then we as Soviet allies would pay in counter-attack.
How would they possibly be able to govern over such areas?
History has taught us one thing. It is much easier to attack and defeat an enemy in battle, than to hold onto your conquered land.

And even if this occupation was softer, it would surely be harsh. Look how Stalin treated his own blood brothers...

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


And tell me £ukasz...

You think that Poles would let the Soviet army just march right on through Poland towards France and Spain? What about Germany?
I for one, would not trust the Soviets in such a pact. A defensive alliance, yes, but not one in which Russia uses Poland as a launching pad for assaults to the west.

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


No... I would never be able to kill a baby, no matter if he turned into a monster.

I would want a full grown, adult Hitler, and then, I would kill him with glee.

Genealogy / Photos of Poland... curious where it could be? [16]


Maybe he was just a transitionary priest, and was at the parish for only a short time before they found a replacement. That would explain why he wouldn't be listed.

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


No.... the best solution, by far, would have been to assassinate Hitler before he became chancellor. Psycho is dead, problem is solved. Hell, I would have strapped on some explosives and done it myself had I known what was to come...