History / Serbian contribution to Poland's independance after WWI [70]


Well, that was because they had a common enemy: the Soviets. And they wanted to be free from the oppression the visit of the Soviets meant to them. And if a ppl are oppressed, any idea what represents (at least in their minds) freedom, seems like the best idea.

Compare this to ancient Japan: the islands' population consisted of many tribes who were in a nearly constant state of war with eachother. However, in case they were invaded by some foreign enemy, they all bonded together to expell the enemy. The common enemy and how to fight him is more important and gives a breeding ground for dreams of (Slavic) unity as a means to oppose that common enemy. However, when that enemy disappears, the need for this means has gone and usually it disappears pretty soon after that.


When the Germans tried to impose a sort of "pan-Germanic" ideology upon the Danes and the Dutch, they met with fierce resistance and such a "brotherhood" would never work as, though they may be Germanic ppl, they are first and foremost Danes or Dutch and want in general to take care of their own business. I think with the Slavic states this is pretty much the same. I think a person living in Poland is first and foremost a Pole and then secondly a Slav. My hunch would be that the average Pole doesn't care that much for what is happening in Bulgaria, for example, if in Poland there is no bread for some reason, if you catch my drift.

>^..^<

M-G (will discuss further later on, does have some shopping to do and this is at this moment a little more important to him than any brotherhood:) )

Language / How does Polish sound to you? How to make Polish sound more pleasurable? [100]

gumishu

Like I said, I didn't know if it was true.

>^..^<

M-G (shopping time again)

History / Responsibility for Murder of Catholic Poles during WWII ? [172]

southern

Dutch cities had gettos too. Most notably the one in Amsterdam. They didn't build walls around it though: they just used the geographical features: they closed all access to the getto by pulling up all bridges that lead to the getto and in A'dam, to access any part of the city, you will have to cross a bridge sooner or later.

Yep the fate of the Jews living on Korfu is also well known in the West.

Edit: like I stated earlier on, perhaps here lies the reason why the emphasis in post-war regulations concerning the punishment of Holocaust-denial: the extermination of Jews, Gypsies, etc, was an international thing - it happened all over Europe, where the extermination of Slavs was a much more localised thing, hence may not appeal as much to other nationalities who don't live in the affected area.

>^..^<

M-G (let's say that all exterminations in WW2 on civilians were the biggest blunder ever made by humans - no wonder Mother Nature tries to kill us nearly every year)

History / Responsibility for Murder of Catholic Poles during WWII ? [172]


I don't think you understand what I am saying in that post. Pls read it again. They didn't start killing them straightaway in the West. They made life harder and harder for them and eventually they were to be exterminated in the camps in PL. I never said that it was the goal of the Nazis to leave the Western Jews alive. I just said that the approach was different than in the East. But pls, read again, you will see.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

History / Responsibility for Murder of Catholic Poles during WWII ? [172]


But he would be left alive. Not killed straightaway. That's what I'm trying to say all the time.

Edit: in addition to my previous post: they did start immediately in the West, but the measures were different: Jews were slowly, but surely, removed from public life. They were refused all the things that made them Jewish and were removed from positions they held in pre-war times. After that, the relocations began.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

History / Responsibility for Murder of Catholic Poles during WWII ? [172]


This implies he would leave them alive to be of some "use" to the Germans. What good would a dead slave be? None. For Jews there was no room at all, not even as slave, if you catch my drift.


Indeed it was no coincidence, but this has two reasons:

1) there were simply more Jews in Eastern Europe than there were in the West and in most (not all) Western countries Jews were much more assimilated than in RU and to a lesser extent in PL as well. In Holland, for example, the Germans simply had to go to the citizens-register in the townhalls to pick out the Jews as upon registration everybody had to state their religion. Dutch Jews, being as Dutch as the non-Jewish Dutch, properly went to register themselves when asked by the Dutch government and had a "J" filled in the column for religion. Catholics had "RK", Protestants "Pr" and so on. So the Nazis only had to check those registers to see if anybody had a "J" in that particular column and pay them a visit afterwards.

2) the Nazis knew that they could do this in Eastern Europe rightaway and not in Western Europe, because anti-semitism wasn't as deeply rooted in the West as it was in the East. They knew if they would start shooting and killing Jews the way they did in PL or in RU, the Westerners would never accept that, hence cause a lot of unrest they didn't need. Therefore, they started shooting Jews immediately after the invasion in RU and in the West they started later on, slowly and not as drastic, calling it "resettlement" or relocating Jews to "work" in PL. The majority of the Western Jews even had to pay their own train ticket to the death camps to disguise the true intention of the "Umsiedlung" (relocation) project.

Edit: ps, the behaviour of the Nazis as described in point 2 was typical, their approach in the Western occupied territories was much different than in the East. This was mainly due to the fact that they saw the Westerners as more civilized and more closer to themselves. This does not take away the fact that when they saw that their approach was not successful, this approach turned a lot harsher.

>^..^<

M-G (shopping soon)

Language / How does Polish sound to you? How to make Polish sound more pleasurable? [100]


Indeed, in Warmovies Germans always sound like screaming non-humans. Later on this got a little better though. But German can indeed sound very nice, although it helps if you understand the language. I read somewhere on this forum that the Polish word for German Niemiec is derived from "to mumble" or something. Last night I heard another explanation: it could be as well derived from "Nemedians", a celtic tribe which is supposed to live on German territory before the Germans moved in. Don't know if this is true, but it does make some sense if you compare the words. But like said, I don't know if this is true.

I personally think all languages sound nice, it just depends on who is speaking them. Dutch, for example, is perceived as a harsh language to listen to, but it sounds much nicer when a gorgeous young lady speaks it than a 2 meter tall Neanderthaler mumbles it.

>^..^<

M-G (viva Esperanto, viva Slovio)

History / Responsibility for Murder of Catholic Poles during WWII ? [172]

gumishu

Does anybody participating in this discussion? No, I never went through the process et al, so I cannot speak from experience, no. I have to go on what I read, just like everybody else here who has not gone through the process. Only difference is that some see it as some evil scheme and others do not.

>^..^<

M-G (do you have practice experience?)

History / Did Ukraine really "steal" Polish land? [302]

aphrodisiac

I think he's gay - the metaphore of him riding on a white horse is a rather symbolic hint he gives to this effect.

:)

Hm, it should be time that, no matter what how bad the economic sit in the Ukraine may be, ppl accept the fact that it's a sovereign nation, not just something that was stolen from Poland and made somehow independent. Ppl should respect that. They expect others to respect PL's independency, so they should do the same with the Ukraine's independency. Or is this a different case?

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

History / Responsibility for Murder of Catholic Poles during WWII ? [172]

gumishu

You can get temporary visa - don't know for how long they are valid (I have never been to Israël), but I take it that if you are there based on those for 3 years out of the last 5, you can apply.


Yes - but isn't that the case with all countries? For example, if the Polish government doesn't want you to have a citizenship, they can refuse you this as well.

I read somewhere that if one has some sort of record of performing deeds of hatred towards Jewish ppl, be this in writing or in actual deeds, one will never be able to obtain citizenship in IL. This is normal, imo. And of course the laws concerning immigration and citizenship are stricter than other countries. One must not forget that the state of IL was created to provide a territory for the Jewish entity in the world after an attempt was made to exterminate them, which nearly wiped them off the face of the Earth. It's nothing more than logic that they sharpen the rules in order to protect the Jewish ppl for the future.

Have a look at this: ujia.org.il

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

History / Responsibility for Murder of Catholic Poles during WWII ? [172]


Read the section of the "naturalisation". It states it very clearly.

In case of reading disorders, you may want to consult a doctor? :)

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

History / Responsibility for Murder of Catholic Poles during WWII ? [172]


Not true. Hitler started raging about the Jews way before he ever started raging about "Lebensraum" in the East. Jews were his main target and as a civilian group the biggest group to perish. He foresaw a big group of Slavs as slaves, hence leaving them alive, while he did not see any future role for the Jews; they all had to die. I'm not talking about where the big game was played as we all know where that was, but about the group of ppl he wanted to vanish from the face of the Earth.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

History / Responsibility for Murder of Catholic Poles during WWII ? [172]


Nobody said it was solely the Jews. They were the biggest group and the main target of Hitler's wrath, but not the only one.

>^..^<

M-G (coffee)

History / Responsibility for Murder of Catholic Poles during WWII ? [172]


Like I said in a previous post, the denial laws are only there to prevent from happening again what has been happening every other generation for nearly 2000 years. Every other generation there will be an idiot who denies the Holocaust and/or the killing of millions of other more or less innocent ppl. As we have seen to which intolerance can lead in the past, and knowing that some idiots never will learn, those laws are instated to stop them thinking such BS by criminalising it. And that is a good idea. "he who doesn't want to listen, has to feel." as we say in Holland. If a child doesn't listen to you, you spank it, so it will listen to you. Denial views are no views, they are dangerous cases of depraved thinking; dangerous because idiots (i e skinheads, stupid extreme right wing movements and so on) who don't have a brain get a "scientific" base for their idiotic behaviour: this "scientist" says it, so it must be true!. That's why the laws are there. Like it or not. You are not to deny the Holocaust. It has nothing to do with pressure from the Jews or whatever, just with common sense of the law makers in the diverse countries.

Edit: and girl, you may wanna change the "sex" on your account. Now everybody thinks you're a man.

>^..^<

M-G (thinks denial laws are good - we've tried it way too often otherwise to root out depraved thinking)

History / Responsibility for Murder of Catholic Poles during WWII ? [172]


Why don't you simply go back to the kitchen? Everybody has his/her place in society, and yours is in the kitchen. Simple as that. You can post as much from the Talmud or Kabbala if you like, I don't care. I'm not religious anyway.


You should make the choice more challenging, sjam :)
Wasn't it Pilecki who wrote "In the first 3 years 2 million ppl have been killed in this camp and the next 2 years there will be 3 million more killed"?

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

History / Responsibility for Murder of Catholic Poles during WWII ? [172]


You just keep on being a pryck are you? What if I would say that I don't like Poles? Then you would start whining about me being anti-Polish. Well, I'm not gonna say that, because I am not a retard like you. So shut the f*ck up. As long as you start whinging and whining that ppl are being anti-Polish if they say something that is not suitable to Poles as such, you're not entitled to say things like this. Stop villifying ppl who don't like Poles.

>^..^<

M-G (terra ekpyrosis again and again)

History / Responsibility for Murder of Catholic Poles during WWII ? [172]


You have a very funny way of showing your love then.


The proper name would be "The Eurasian continent" and consists of Asia and Europe, the latter being basically nothing more than two large peninsulas of the Asian continent. Only because of the civilation that took place on those two peninsulas, it is called a seperate continent, but strictly speaking it's not a continent at all. Egypt is in Africa. Heck even the mainland of Turkey is not part of Europe, strictly speaking. Check an atlas as you haven't got a clue. Americans who try to tell a European about their continent.

>^..^<

M-G (impropria impropriae est)

History / Responsibility for Murder of Catholic Poles during WWII ? [172]


Of course, just admit you don't like Jews, everybody here knows that. The words "Jew" and/or "Jews" are the most used in all of your posts. This can mean two things: either you hate the Jews or you are obsessed with them. I think it's a bit of both, but then again, you always try to "prove" that the Jews were bad and did bad things. Sec.

I will tell you why there are laws concerning the punishment of Holocaust denial: because for thousands of years every generation there was an idiot who blamed the Jews for his own failure. And since thousands of years apparently are not enough time for ppl to learn, they have to enforce the ppl to learn to stop this rubbish. That's why there are laws concerning the issue.


You're such a simple person, starting to cry when somebody don't goes along with your depraved points of view and then starting to insult the ppl who don't agree with you. You agree with Joe, which says enough about your level.


Maybe your geographic knowledge isn't that advanced, but just so you know: the entire Middle East is part of Asia, not Europe. Every schoolkid knows that.


Still I have them and I was one of the best of my year. Too bad you fail to see sarcasm. In case you don't know what sarcasm is, I recommend you use a dictionary. Yet I rebuke you time and time again. It's so easy when one deals with ppl of limited views. And as from now on, I would suggest you stop posting as you have nothing to contribute. Nothing at all, except conspiracy nonsense. Go away before you start to annoy me.

>^..^<

M-G (il est si facile de traiter avec des gens simples)

History / Serbian contribution to Poland's independance after WWI [70]


You overlooked two small words in there: "as well". This means that I meant Marxism as in "like". So: Slavic Brotherhood is a nice idea, but it doesn't work and it will never work. Why? Because there are ppl involved. And where there are ppl involved, dreams die and the practice shows that dream always gets perverted somehow. This happens with the idea of Marxism as well. I just meant it as a comparison. A good idea that went bad as soon as ppl put it into practice or got involved in it. I didn't mean it in reference to Slavs at all, just a comparing example. And the fact that Marx and Engels were German is irrelevant in this respect.

Edit: to put it in plain words: where ppl are involved, there will always be ppl who put ideas, thoughts and dreams into their own profit.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

History / Serbian contribution to Poland's independance after WWI [70]

Crow

History has proven that there is no such thing as Slavic Brotherhood. Nice thought, nice idea, but marxism is a good idea in basic as well, but ppl are ppl, so it will never work.

>^..^<

M-G (will haunt Crow until he gives me a definitive answer to my previous question)

History / Serbian contribution to Poland's independance after WWI [70]

Crow

So you're gonna stop posting then? Good :) This is not the time anymore to post nationalistic stuff. Time to move on to the future and no more nonsense of Slavic Brotherhood et al.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

History / Serbian contribution to Poland's independance after WWI [70]


Crow, why are you such an ignorant man? This link leads to a page that says EXACTLY the same thing I said in my very long post about the causes of WW1. Then it was said that I didn't have a clue by "experts", one of which was YOU. Now you come with an overview that says exactly the same as I did back then and you claim this to be true suddenly? Don't be such an ignorant fool, ok?

>^..^<

M-G (I was right back then as I am now)

News / BNP far right in Poland [116]


Why is any source that doesn't blame Jews for something immediately leftish? You tell me that? We've seen to what intolerance can lead, let's not make the same mistake again...

Edit: what I would propose is that the sources merely vent the facts and don't attach an opinion to it, for example: "they killed the Jews and these guys killed the Poles", sec. Opinionated views only make me go against it when they are reeking of intolerance. But then again, discussions are always fun anyway :)


I can usually smell them :) But in all fairness, I do respect everybody, until I get enough of retard anti-something talk. Have you seen the movie "Hotel Ruanda"? If not, you should and especially watch the opening scene where the guy on the radio calls to kill all Tutsis. I was disgusted by that guy after a minute. What some do on this forum is pretty much the same. However I do tolerate freedom of speech, no matter how disgusting the views are and how much against this freedom their ideology may be. This goes not only to anti-semites, but to all other forms of intolerance as well. I just think that it's time to stop this nonsense. We have only one planet and we have to get along, no matter if we want to or not. But I guess it'll take a few generations before mankind is smart enough to understand that.

>^..^<

M-G (all ppl are brothers - it just takes some time to grasp that concept)

News / BNP far right in Poland [116]


No. It makes him a criminal.


Let's just say that Sokrates is actually a fascist who's trying to hide behind so-called "facts". Funny how these ppl always drag Israël into it. As if the disgusting behaviour of that country is some justification for what happened in the past or to practice anti-semitism all over again. It's like some prominent figure once said:


It's easy to pinpoint the anti-semites and racists here on this forum. Some do it outright and some conceal it by referring to "fact" from very questionable sources, usually sources in the (extreme) right-wing camp and claim these as truth. They attack anybody who does not agree to them and tell them to accept that there might be another truth: the truth of their sources. But what if the generally accepted sources are right? What if the right-wing sources try to indoctrinate us with nonsense? Just because some retard says something bad about Jews on some website doesn't make it true. However, some ppl here are all too greedy to find bad stuff about Jews and want to believe it's true, so they claim it to be true.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

History / Responsibility for Murder of Catholic Poles during WWII ? [172]

At least 15 million and it's an outrage :)

>^..^<

M-G (sorry, couldn't help it)

History / Responsibility for Murder of Catholic Poles during WWII ? [172]


Sure. I still wonder how the hell I got that honoured Master's that I have and that Bachelors'. But that is not on trial here. You statement was that Poles are not allowed citizenship in Israël and in your mysterious ways you found this yet another way of critizing the Jews, whom you claim to love. Dr Strangelove comes to mind. Well, as I pointed out, they are allowed to acquire citizenship in Israël and to live as an Israeli. So your point has been proven as being not correct. And of course by doing this I have a low IQ and am willfully deceitful. Of course. This statement is just a confirmation that I am right :)

And the treatment of Palestinians by the Israeli government is a different topic of discussion and I most pertinently don't agree to the way they are handling things, but don't divert the topic pls. And as a matter of fact: why do you think Israël participates in the Eurosongfestival and the European football leagues while it's an Asian country? One of the reasons is that the Arab states surrounding them are not allowing them to participate in their competitions. So, I guess the same goes for the Arab-Israeli citizenships.

>^..^<

M-G (now go bake a cake)

History / Responsibility for Murder of Catholic Poles during WWII ? [172]


Exactly - the laws of return that is something completely different than not allowing non-Jews into the country.

Edit: the laws of return don't deny non-Jews into the country. It nowhere states that. It's just what you want to read as you don't like Jews and you are desperate to find anything bad about Jews.

I read the whole page and just for your information, you "forgot" to mention this:


No matter how you turn or bend it, when a Pole wants to emigrate to Israël he can. This, btw has only effect on Jews, all other nationalities can get Israeli citizenship when they want to, but based on other laws.

Now go bake a cake, you're probably better at that, and don't say bad things about the Jews again.

>^..^<

M-G (again cheehaw was easily rebuked)

History / Responsibility for Murder of Catholic Poles during WWII ? [172]



Just for your information: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_citizens

And then especially this phrase:


So if you're American or Polish and you have lived in Israël for a sufficient amount of time, you can become an Israeli citizen. Again you talk nonsense. If these are the results of your investigations, I suggest you better start baking a real good cake or make a casserole.

Edit: oh dear, you are trying hard to make the Jews look bad again and again it's easily rebuked...What did the doctor say to you about saying bad things about the Jews? Exactly. Now, don't do it again.

>^..^<

M-G (tsk, it was just widely available on Wiki again)

History / Responsibility for Murder of Catholic Poles during WWII ? [172]

vetala

Thank you. I wasn't aware of that and I didn't have time to look it up myself. But it's good that it's so widespread in order to prevent this cancer of society to come up again.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

History / Serbian contribution to Poland's independance after WWI [70]


King S, that's what I have been telling him so many times. He does not listen :(

>^..^<

M-G (let's spank Crow until he does!)