celinski
4 Dec 2008
celinski
4 Dec 2008
News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]
Is this not what happened anyway in Poland? Polish military I speak to were fighting for a free Poland, not Soviet occupied Poland. 1989 is not that long ago.
This quote is about France/ Britain and had they attacked Germany. What I question is what if all three, France, Britain and Poland did all jointly attack, could the world war be avoided?
worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/reading/history/polandbetrayal.htm
This has nothing to do with my family it has everything to do with how the Polish continued to live under communist rule. Remember my family left in 1951, I am referring to the life of the ones left behind. Polish were still being killed and Polish people lived with a new fear of death. Today we can speak to the people that survived this Stalin era and hear first hand accounts about what life was like.
I don't feel we can you compare what Soviet occupied Poland was like after the war with what took place under Nazi's. War was over and yet within "Soviet occupied Poland" each day presented a challange to survive.
The war in Europe would have then been over and the Polish nation wouild now be a historical footnote with the Polish people exterminated or enslaved.
Is this not what happened anyway in Poland? Polish military I speak to were fighting for a free Poland, not Soviet occupied Poland. 1989 is not that long ago.
preparing for a war that we were in no position logistically to fight. We were under armed and under prepared. If we would have fought the Germans in a land war in 1939 we would have been beaten quickly and decisively.
This quote is about France/ Britain and had they attacked Germany. What I question is what if all three, France, Britain and Poland did all jointly attack, could the world war be avoided?
This is very significant since Hitler had concentrated almost all German military forces in the east, and France had one of the strongest armies in the world. Had France attacked Germany in a serious way as promised, the results could have been very serious, if not disastrous for the Germans.
worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/reading/history/polandbetrayal.htm
Poland in the postwar period is even a fraction as bad as it was under the Nazis then you seriously need to read more.
This has nothing to do with my family it has everything to do with how the Polish continued to live under communist rule. Remember my family left in 1951, I am referring to the life of the ones left behind. Polish were still being killed and Polish people lived with a new fear of death. Today we can speak to the people that survived this Stalin era and hear first hand accounts about what life was like.
I don't feel we can you compare what Soviet occupied Poland was like after the war with what took place under Nazi's. War was over and yet within "Soviet occupied Poland" each day presented a challange to survive.
celinski
3 Dec 2008
News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]
Still can't answer the real question, I thought not. If you come up with something I'll be waiting.
The US is asked to stay out of war. This also give us an idea of what Britain was doing.
Congratulations
Still can't answer the real question, I thought not. If you come up with something I'll be waiting.
The US is asked to stay out of war. This also give us an idea of what Britain was doing.
Special Release! Hitler & Stalin Attack Poland 1939/9/4
Europe at War!
2) Pres. Roosevelt Pledges To Keep U.S. Out Of War - "Washington, DC: President Roosevelt, his peace efforts failed, appeals for national unity in the crisis and pledges his fight for neutrality!" scenes of newsreel cameras and radios, sound of FDR speaking in the partial newsreel without narration
2) Pres. Roosevelt Pledges To Keep U.S. Out Of War - "Washington, DC: President Roosevelt, his peace efforts failed, appeals for national unity in the crisis and pledges his fight for neutrality!" scenes of newsreel cameras and radios, sound of FDR speaking in the partial newsreel without narration
celinski
3 Dec 2008
News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]
Stop avoing the question with name calling before you go to time out.
Now can you answer the question vs. side stepping.
Yes. I've got lots of lies from you.
Stop avoing the question with name calling before you go to time out.
Now can you answer the question vs. side stepping.
Ok I have given many examples of Poland fighting outside Poland for the allie troops. Now show me some of allies fighting for and with Poland within Poland?
celinski
3 Dec 2008
News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]
Got anything yet Harry?
felsztyn.tripod.com/germaninvasion/id11.html
Your exact question was on this very page and was:
Ok I have given many examples of Poland fighting outside Poland for the allie troops. Now show me some of allies fighting for and with Poland within Poland?
Got anything yet Harry?
History will show what had been achieved and what was in the course of being realised at the outbreak of the war. But history will certainly confirm that the Polish nation, fully aware of the sacrifices involved, took up the fight against German rapaciousness which was rearing its head, for the second time in one generation. Once again, the Polish people threw into the scales all their material and spiritual resources which had been accumulating during the twenty years of their independent existence.
felsztyn.tripod.com/germaninvasion/id11.html
celinski
3 Dec 2008
News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]
meaning?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pincer_movement
I found it. Well jump in anytime and stop the movement. lol
I asked for anytime after Sept. 3, 1939 "within Poland"?
classic pincer movement
meaning?
The flanks of the opponent are attacked simultaneously in a pinching motion after the opponent has advanced towards the center of an army which is responding by moving its outside forces to the enemy's flanks, in order to surround it. At the same time, a second layer of pincers attacks on the more extreme flanks, so as to prevent any attempts to reinforce the target unit.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pincer_movement
I found it. Well jump in anytime and stop the movement. lol
No I don't. Because I was half wrong. The first mission started 61 minutes after war was declared (I thought the timezone stated in the declaration was European time but it was actually British time).
I asked for anytime after Sept. 3, 1939 "within Poland"?
celinski
3 Dec 2008
News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]
You are to funny. Gotta love Mickey. lol :)))
now do you have some links showing what you did within Poland, for the Polish?
You are to funny. Gotta love Mickey. lol :)))
celinski
3 Dec 2008
News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]
I love how mature you guys sound when one little women in the US proves you wrong. Maybe it would be easier to just have said, Your right Carol, from the get go. Sorry we did not help.
Sorry Harry I used video of Battle of Monte Cassino, remember. But no, this was not prior to Sept. 3, 1939.
ITS 2008 FOR FCUKS SAKE GROW UP.
I love how mature you guys sound when one little women in the US proves you wrong. Maybe it would be easier to just have said, Your right Carol, from the get go. Sorry we did not help.
when did Poland drop everything and help save Britain prior to 3 September 1939? You are the one who used past perfect, now you tell us when dropped everything and helped save Britain.
Sorry Harry I used video of Battle of Monte Cassino, remember. But no, this was not prior to Sept. 3, 1939.
celinski
3 Dec 2008
News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]
Very well thank you, now do you have some links showing what you did within Poland, for the Polish?
Very well thank you, now do you have some links showing what you did within Poland, for the Polish?
celinski
3 Dec 2008
News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]
Before is your silly way of avoiding the truth. I never said, nor meant prior to Sept. 3, 1939.
Where and do you have some type of link?
before 3 September 1939
Before is your silly way of avoiding the truth. I never said, nor meant prior to Sept. 3, 1939.
The first British mission against Germany was launched within one hour of war being declared and the first attack took place the next day.
Where and do you have some type of link?
celinski
3 Dec 2008
News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]
Ok I have given many examples of Poland fighting outside Poland for the allie troops. Now show me some of allies fighting for and with Poland within Poland?
Obviously not Carol, try to focus on the question at hand
Ok I have given many examples of Poland fighting outside Poland for the allie troops. Now show me some of allies fighting for and with Poland within Poland?
The months following Britain's declaration of war are referred to as the 'phoney war' because Britain saw no military action.
celinski
3 Dec 2008
News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]
And you feel if Poland did not stop the Soviet Army that the Soviet Army would have stopped with Poland, I suppose?
And Poland was then fighting for no country other than Poland.
And you feel if Poland did not stop the Soviet Army that the Soviet Army would have stopped with Poland, I suppose?
celinski
3 Dec 2008
News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]
Want to count this?
Maybe you are confusing this with 1920 when Polish saved Europe from Soviets and gainned her independence. :)
So when had Poland fought to save Britain?
Want to count this?
celinski
3 Dec 2008
News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]
Where do you see a date? You took the quote from under,
Stop putting words on my reply's.
Thanks, Carol SKI
Where do you see a date? You took the quote from under,
Stop putting words on my reply's.
Thanks, Carol SKI
celinski
3 Dec 2008
News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]
Show me where I made this claim?
If Poland never went to war for Britain then who was that Polish beside you?
What did you have on your plate that would be more important than keeping your word to the ones you told, "we'll be there"?
I guess you never saw the death toll on Non Jewish? Yes we were being killed and lived in inhumane conditions. Some felt a gas chamber would have been more humane that freezing, starving, slaving and watching each other die a slow death. In the end losing our country that we fought to save.
Non Communist continued to live under the conditions you decribe. Food in "Stalin's Communist Poland" was for the ones that were Moscow Poles.
Please answer.
you claimed that Poland fought for Britain before Britain fought for Poland. I asked you to tell me when Poland fought for Britain before 3 September 1939. When was it?
Show me where I made this claim?
Poland never went to war for Britain, Britain did go to war for Poland however. Maybe we didnt go to war in the style and manner which suited Poland but hey, we had a couple of other things on our plate at the time. We won in the end, the Nazis were defeated and 'most' of Europe was free again. Poland was in the 'not so free' bit but at least you werent all being rounded up and lead to gas chambers or being shot en masse in the streets or being forced to live on starvation rations as you were pre-1946.
If Poland never went to war for Britain then who was that Polish beside you?
What did you have on your plate that would be more important than keeping your word to the ones you told, "we'll be there"?
I guess you never saw the death toll on Non Jewish? Yes we were being killed and lived in inhumane conditions. Some felt a gas chamber would have been more humane that freezing, starving, slaving and watching each other die a slow death. In the end losing our country that we fought to save.
Non Communist continued to live under the conditions you decribe. Food in "Stalin's Communist Poland" was for the ones that were Moscow Poles.
celinski
3 Dec 2008
News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]
Can you show me this quote? Prior to 3 Sept. 1939, why would Poland be fighting? Maybe you are confusing this with 1920 when Polish saved Europe from Soviets and gainned her independence. :)
you claimed that Poland fought for Britain before Britain fought for Poland. I asked you to tell me when Poland fought for Britain before 3 September 1939. When was it?
Can you show me this quote? Prior to 3 Sept. 1939, why would Poland be fighting? Maybe you are confusing this with 1920 when Polish saved Europe from Soviets and gainned her independence. :)
celinski
3 Dec 2008
News / Helena Wolinska dead [90]
Sorry but I am both. Up until 1951 Polish did not loose citizenship from Poland and I in fact recieved Polish upon birth as well as US.
But I am sure that you know this already and it is the reason that you have not applied for a Polish passport. Face facts Carol: you are not Polish, you are American.
Sorry but I am both. Up until 1951 Polish did not loose citizenship from Poland and I in fact recieved Polish upon birth as well as US.
celinski
3 Dec 2008
News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]
[
Question being? I gave you many examples of Polish fighting for others. Do you need a few more?
I will write to the onme that posted and get the info for you.
if you actually bothered to read questions
When did Poland ever fight to save Britain before Britain fought to protect Polish independence?
[
Question being? I gave you many examples of Polish fighting for others. Do you need a few more?
Actually I would like to see the evidence for that because I frankly don't believe that.
I will write to the onme that posted and get the info for you.
celinski
3 Dec 2008
News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]
Now how's this for a silly question? Do you think Polish were fighting and dying for ha ha's. Please give credit where credit is due.
When did Poland ever fight to save Britain before Britain fought to protect Polish independence?
Now how's this for a silly question? Do you think Polish were fighting and dying for ha ha's. Please give credit where credit is due.
celinski
3 Dec 2008
News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]
We were your allies, yes, you should have dropped eveything and helped save Poland. Just as Polish had done for you. "For your Freedom and Ours".
Nail on head
We were your allies, yes, you should have dropped eveything and helped save Poland. Just as Polish had done for you. "For your Freedom and Ours".
celinski
3 Dec 2008
News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]
At least Britain was not taken over. Britain still had independence. Is this not what all were fighting for?
The title of this thread should have the word Poland replaced with Britain
At least Britain was not taken over. Britain still had independence. Is this not what all were fighting for?
celinski
3 Dec 2008
News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]
Can you tell me what the British tried during the "Warsaw Uprising"? Listen to the voices of the ones that were there.
This one speaks of who was in the parade, "Moscow Poles".
The British tried to support the Warsaw Uprising but the Americans considered such support not "advantageous for the long-term prospects" of the war. Some Poles were and some are anti-semitic. These are facts.
Can you tell me what the British tried during the "Warsaw Uprising"? Listen to the voices of the ones that were there.
This one speaks of who was in the parade, "Moscow Poles".
celinski
3 Dec 2008
News / Helena Wolinska dead [90]
Harry Harry Harry, must I teach you everything. Do you understand the usage of "dual citizenship"?
Which means
Harry Harry Harry, must I teach you everything. Do you understand the usage of "dual citizenship"?
celinski
2 Dec 2008
News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]
Point being the question has been brought up a number of times in this question.
Stalin's military attacked Poland in the East in Sept. 1939.
what is your point?
Point being the question has been brought up a number of times in this question.
Stalin was likley to enter Poland. Finaly he have done so on his conditions in 1944.
Stalin's military attacked Poland in the East in Sept. 1939.
celinski
2 Dec 2008
News / Helena Wolinska dead [90]
You know this? Poland Goverment tells me I am a Polish citizen. My fathers birth took place in Eastern Poland, both parents Polish.
You know this? Poland Goverment tells me I am a Polish citizen. My fathers birth took place in Eastern Poland, both parents Polish.
celinski
2 Dec 2008
News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]
France and Britian were also concerned. With Poland being attacked first did not mean Nazi's were going to stop with them. We must not forget that at this point no one was aware of the secret pack between Hitler and Stalin. When I was reading up on meetings with Moscow and Britian about Poland, Moscow remained un commited. Of corse France, Britian and Poland had the major concern for self.
I guess it comes down to did France and Britian reaction live up to the contract? IH don't know, like you said, there was more going on than meets the eye.
Could Poland have reacted differently, sure they could have turned over the property being asked for by Nazi. That would not have changed a thing. Hitler and Stalin were taking her anyway.
Thats an opinion, not a fact.
France and Britian were also concerned. With Poland being attacked first did not mean Nazi's were going to stop with them. We must not forget that at this point no one was aware of the secret pack between Hitler and Stalin. When I was reading up on meetings with Moscow and Britian about Poland, Moscow remained un commited. Of corse France, Britian and Poland had the major concern for self.
I guess it comes down to did France and Britian reaction live up to the contract? IH don't know, like you said, there was more going on than meets the eye.
Could Poland have reacted differently, sure they could have turned over the property being asked for by Nazi. That would not have changed a thing. Hitler and Stalin were taking her anyway.
celinski
2 Dec 2008
News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]
I guess we can go there. "Cover" would mean, respond and help Poland with "all the support and assistance in it's power". I don't feel this was done and IMHO Poland should have been informed that (for whatever reason) help was not forth coming.
Contracting Party will at once give the Contracting Party engaged in hostilities all the support and assistance in its power."
What does 'cover' mean?
I guess we can go there. "Cover" would mean, respond and help Poland with "all the support and assistance in it's power". I don't feel this was done and IMHO Poland should have been informed that (for whatever reason) help was not forth coming.
celinski
2 Dec 2008
News / Helena Wolinska dead [90]
Thank you.
Prince,
Do you go to the graves in "Monte Cassino" and deny the Polish deceased to be Polish? They are no longer on Polish soil and do not speak. Yet they fought beside my family and I consider them just as Polish as you or I. It is fine if you do not want to view me as being Polish.
As for my Grandfather, he was one of Poland's hero that fought to regain Poland's freedom on the front line in 1918. This is not your right. After Nazi's attacked Soviets and amnesty was granted my family once more fought and died for Poland. In the end, we lost our country to Soviet takeover.
[quote=Prince]My ancestors were fighting whole war against Germans and at the end were persecuted for that by Soviet NKVD.
My family were living in the east and felt the wrath of Soviets. Being Osadnik's (see, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osadnik)was all that was needed. Poland was not just attacked by Nazi's. Soviets wanted 1/2 of Poland and this was where our fight started.
Leave her alone. Thanks.
Thank you.
And pease stop pretending to be Polish if you live in USA and even can't speak Polish.
Prince,
Do you go to the graves in "Monte Cassino" and deny the Polish deceased to be Polish? They are no longer on Polish soil and do not speak. Yet they fought beside my family and I consider them just as Polish as you or I. It is fine if you do not want to view me as being Polish.
As for my Grandfather, he was one of Poland's hero that fought to regain Poland's freedom on the front line in 1918. This is not your right. After Nazi's attacked Soviets and amnesty was granted my family once more fought and died for Poland. In the end, we lost our country to Soviet takeover.
[quote=Prince]My ancestors were fighting whole war against Germans and at the end were persecuted for that by Soviet NKVD.
My family were living in the east and felt the wrath of Soviets. Being Osadnik's (see, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osadnik)was all that was needed. Poland was not just attacked by Nazi's. Soviets wanted 1/2 of Poland and this was where our fight started.
celinski
1 Dec 2008
News / Helena Wolinska dead [90]
It all depends on where/when you are looking at here is a BBC news release about Lwow and what the Nazi's troops saw when they went in. Mind you this shows what Polish were dealing with in Eastern Poland prior to Nazi's attack. As you will see strong "Anti-Soviet" by Polish. What was not seen yet was the condition of the ones that survived "Siberia" or "Katyn".
bbc.co.uk/archive/ussr/dr6715_1.shtml?docall=2&doc=6715
Polish anti-nazis.
It all depends on where/when you are looking at here is a BBC news release about Lwow and what the Nazi's troops saw when they went in. Mind you this shows what Polish were dealing with in Eastern Poland prior to Nazi's attack. As you will see strong "Anti-Soviet" by Polish. What was not seen yet was the condition of the ones that survived "Siberia" or "Katyn".
bbc.co.uk/archive/ussr/dr6715_1.shtml?docall=2&doc=6715
celinski
1 Dec 2008
News / Helena Wolinska dead [90]
What was left of Poland? Life in "Poland" as many know was run by "Communist Soviets" that held the power. When you speak to the "anti communist Poles" that survived you hear of the continued abuse. All one had to do was speak of "Katyn" being a soviet crime and they risked the lives of there families. Food, clothing as with other "God given" life supplies were for communists. Even 10 years ago when more Polish bodies were discovered in Ukraine the Polish knew to whisper behind closed doors vs. being able to speak of the crimes.
Anti Soviet takeover. Remember who killed my family were not Nazi's, it was Soviets.
they weren't allmighty and far stretched as it was
What was left of Poland? Life in "Poland" as many know was run by "Communist Soviets" that held the power. When you speak to the "anti communist Poles" that survived you hear of the continued abuse. All one had to do was speak of "Katyn" being a soviet crime and they risked the lives of there families. Food, clothing as with other "God given" life supplies were for communists. Even 10 years ago when more Polish bodies were discovered in Ukraine the Polish knew to whisper behind closed doors vs. being able to speak of the crimes.
They were killed by the soviet NKVD because they were anti-nazi???
Anti Soviet takeover. Remember who killed my family were not Nazi's, it was Soviets.