News / Does Poland count in Europe or is it ignored? [427]

Oooooh...now we are back mocking some adversaries looks???? Man, you really have THE killer arguments, don't you! Don't you see how ridiculous your "Steinbach-phobia" has become? That has nothing do to with rationality anymore...;)

News / Does Poland count in Europe or is it ignored? [427]

Well...the sooner we get the center to clear up such things the better, right? :)

....not "hoarde"???


Thank you!

Oh and for your "Copernicus is polish" statement, there is a looooong thread about that topic already here on PF, go read it..you might learn a thing or two!

I'm also not interested to start everytime from scratch the moment another history newbie decides to put in his two cents....as the history of the Germans in what is what now Poland goes back many centuries and didn't start with any invasions.

News / Does Poland count in Europe or is it ignored? [427]


Well, I met her and watched her in german talk shows...I know she is a tough lady and if Poles would actually talk to her instead of burning nazi-uniformed puppets of her they would be surprised to find that she has nothing against Poles or Poland.

But they prefer not to...

News / Does Poland count in Europe or is it ignored? [427]


You have still no idea, haven't you? :)

That center is being build by a whole hoarde of historians and researchers....Mrs. Steinbach is only the political face.

But I agree...should there be a document that would paint some Poles in a less than absolutely rosy light it MUST be of course a revanchistic lie!!!

News / Does Poland count in Europe or is it ignored? [427]

read above.

And alone on that discussions here you see how needed such a documentation center was and is!

Again, if no one else who had a hand in this ethnic cleansing of Germans blinks an eye then why throw the Poles such a tantrum if they have nothing to hide?

News / Does Poland count in Europe or is it ignored? [427]


That's what I said...at that date the red army was nearly already inside...till then Hanke forbade any evacuations...the following was a catastrophe.

But believe me no German thought he had seen his home for the last time. They planned to come back.
To call that "voluntarily expellation" is just sick!

News / Does Poland count in Europe or is it ignored? [427]


What did you read about her?

News / Does Poland count in Europe or is it ignored? [427]


Excuse me if I doubt your polish tales....and so should you.
Till '45 there was actually a ban for civilians to leave the city! As the ban was lifted it was much to late:

And I remember that there was a lot of talk about a polish-german cooperation, but it was the Poles who preferred to mope and to get out of the project.

(Let me see if I find a link to that!)


Oh please...if it had been a Herr Schmidt you would hate Herrn Schmidt!
You hate the idea of such a center, and you know that it is the merit of Mrs. Steinbach who just wouldn't give up that this center is now being build....oh and how you hate here for that! :):)

(Calling her a liar is just icing of the cake)

News / Does Poland count in Europe or is it ignored? [427]


Really?

Then why fight Poles tooth and nail against a documentation center about that dark and important chapter of our past?
Neither the Russians nor anybody else from Yalta has any objections or qualms...but the Poles scream like nobody else. (And they hate Mrs. Steinbach for being the face of the center - all the other accusations are just bad jokes)

You could think they have something to hide and don't want to be reminded of that...

News / Does Poland count in Europe or is it ignored? [427]

That center is so needed!
I see it again and again by just watching Poles telling their misconceptions what that all was about.

Just an example, the Germans in Breslau were purposely starved by the Poles with the help of the red army...they had to leave or would die. No rations for Germans, just for Poles.

And when people flee a war situation that has nothing to do with "voluntarily expulsion", are you all sickos or what?
Poles fled too, French fled too...everywhere civilians backed their bags as their towns got shelled...forbidding them to return or a short notion later for those who stayed they had to gather next day at ten o'clock at the main market with one bag for each person or they would be shot - THAT is no voluntarily expulsion either.

That center is soo needed, again we have to thank Mrs. Steinbach eternal for that! :):):):):):)

History / The Poms who stood by the Poles in WW2 [156]


*looks envious*

What a proud heritage to inherit, a real live used sabre! :)

Have to go now, till next time! :)

History / The Poms who stood by the Poles in WW2 [156]

A sabre! Coooooooooooool...but better not, your grandfather might like to keep it in the family, but thanks! :)

History / The Poms who stood by the Poles in WW2 [156]


The moment the Poles have cooler helmets than mine I'm all yours!

History / The Poms who stood by the Poles in WW2 [156]


Can we at least try to stay in the time frame...please? There was a cool polish army in Poland in '39, weren't there?

Could I as a german citizen had come over to serve there??? ;)


Well, no blood test but to get your "first class" you had to bring the "Ariernachweis"
de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariernachweis#.E2.80.9EKleiner_Ariernachweis.E2.80.9C
(makes now for an excellent starting point for any genealogical research!)

Erm...here is the english link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariernachweis



There might have been accidents but it wasn't policy to force people at gun point to subscribe to Volksliste I. It would not have been really helpful to gather the "Herrenrasse"....and you had to bring some proof anyhow.

History / The Poms who stood by the Poles in WW2 [156]


Just a question...could a german had come over and become a member of the polish forces?
No? Because he was not a polish citizen? Thought so....

And the same was it with the Wehrmacht...;) No myth.
You had to have the right nationality in you papers....I really wonder why that common and logical custom is so hard to grasp!


To be conscripted you had to be a german citizen, male, healthy and of the right age.

For Germans outside of the Reich territory subscribing to the Volkliste I was voluntarily.
If they did it they became eligible for conscription!

(It really seems too difficult to comprehend)

History / The Poms who stood by the Poles in WW2 [156]


It's Black and White in this regard that ONLY german citizens were allowed to serve in the Wehrmacht, not polish nationals.

So "Poles" who served in the german forces and later said they were forced to by the Germans were forced in the same way as they were "forced" to subscribe voluntarily the Volkliste I.

Everything else is grey...


Fully agree!

News / Does Poland count in Europe or is it ignored? [427]


Well, she was expelled as a baby...so was her family. Your point being?

Some Poles today even say Danzig or Breslau have been polish all along and the Germans had been only short time squatter...


Yes, that she was and that is the main argument against her.
But that is to simplicistic. She wasn't against the border agreement per se but she demanded that a solution for the expellees should be found together with the border agreement.


I remember that the Poles were invited to take part in the building of the center but that they under the Kaczinskies threw a tantrum and decided to forbid all historians to work with the Germans. They also took all their documents with them.

I'm not sure about the current stand but I hope we can work together on that and get the truth out and find the correct numbers and fates of those people...

History / The Poms who stood by the Poles in WW2 [156]


Because during the millennia Germans scattered over all of Europe but during the development of the nationstates and especially after the Treaty of Versailles millions of ethnic Germans were now put into foreign countries, often against their will.

(Imagine the partitioned Poles, they didn't just vanish or lost their ethnical identification just because they now lived officially in Prussia, Austria or Russia, didn't they?)

To gather them and to classify them the Volksliste was thought up with being Group I the "best" and being IV the "worst" if you want..categorizing people of pure german ancestry on both sides who spoke German etc to mixed breed who were for example already polonized and spoke no longer german or felt any affinity to Germany at all.

They are were used to prop up the army and should help to build the new german Reich in the occupied countries.


A russian SS unit? You are not talking about the Vlasov army, don't you?


There were no polish nationals serving in the Wehrmacht!

(Should I make a record out of this?)

News / Does Poland count in Europe or is it ignored? [427]


Why is she a liar?


Damn :(

History / The Poms who stood by the Poles in WW2 [156]


Heh:)
How do you think the subscribing worked? Some poor sod walked from door to door and begged the owner to make their cross somewhere where they wanted???

Oh Iron...it wasn't that easy and uncomplicated!
You needed abit more to proof your belonging to the "Herrenrasse" in this time!

And I really doubt the graciousness of the polish gov in exile in that regard.


Doesn't sound so forgiving!


And that I said all along!
No foreigners were allowed into the Wehrmacht...you had to be german citizen! Period.

News / Does Poland count in Europe or is it ignored? [427]


And we have ALOT of memorials and centers and documentations about that, don't we?


Who cares...but your smilies make me nervous....are you having fun with this history?
A little sicko or what?


Again, who cares!
You can't deny Mrs. Steinbach her biggest victory: This center is being build. A long fight is over, she won! :):):):):):)
And you are right to hate her, without her fighting for so long and her personality it wouldn't have come so far :)

Steinbach for Chancellor! :)

News / Does Poland count in Europe or is it ignored? [427]

Not that I think a greek opinion is needed or wanted in this topic I'm nonetheless glad it's not the Poles deciding this issue...

But I can see that Mrs. Steinbach will refrain from her promised place in the Center to not to hold up the project. She is that kind of a woman, that's why she is respected and well liked...

News / Does Poland count in Europe or is it ignored? [427]


Well, alone that image puts you into the "not to be taken seriously"-corner!

Mrs Steinbach is not only a person of integrity but in the same party and a friend of our chancellor, Mrs. Merkel...
Next time you have a disagreement with her will you put a Nazi-uniform to her too?


Well...most grown up Germans were in some way or the others...not only the refugees.
But she wasn't even in the Hitler youth like some others...as the catholic pope for example.
Do you have problems with the pope too?
How is it for catholic Poles now having to follow a NAZI GERMAN! Where are all the funny pics
of the pope in uniform???


She was chosen by the expellees to speak for them, that's all what has to interest you!
You are NOT chosing for us!
She had to leave her home as a 2 year old...Babies were forcible thrown out too. Many of the victims were innocent children.


I would rather say....a someone who keeps putting the finger in an still open, hurting wound and just won't stop because she knows that a healing can only begin if the wound is seen, talked about, accepted and treated!

Some Poles would rather prefer to hide eyes and ears and throwing tantrums. There is all the hate and venom coming from!

News / Does Poland count in Europe or is it ignored? [427]


Of course she is!
If it wouldn't be Mrs. Steinbach it would be someone else.
Now Poland had grudgingly and mopingly to accept that the center is being build but that still doesn't stop them from heaping abuse to the woman they perceive as the main "guilty" for it.

News / What is a Polish Nationalist? [47]


If the natives were organized and had shared a common awareness I doubt the settlers would had been so successful.
As it was the native indian Americans (north AND south) were as hostile, infighting and splitted up between each other as was Europe.
Easy game!

News / What is a Polish Nationalist? [47]


In my opinion to really have a chance on countering this danger of being swamped by non-european tribes is to rediscover our common european roots.

This infighting is insane in the face of those external dangers and only weakens us and opens everybody the doors.

I would call myself a european patriot, I think that's our only future!

*steps down from box*

News / What is a Polish Nationalist? [47]


That's what I meant!
Just leave it at that that we in Europe plan to have something similiar (much more spices in this european dish) soon and that this is progress to our "border-past" :)


Or as in: "You are from another nation so we don't want you here even as you are from my tribe and my race!"

Europeans need to leave that thinking behind, ASAP!

News / What is a Polish Nationalist? [47]


Do you know the number 1 reason for most wars and killings and destruction in Europe over the centuries (even before religion)? It's those f*ucking borders!

Jailed into borders is not the natural state for the Europeans, wandering and roaming freely is!

(Even today the war in the ME is about those f*ucking borders). Maybe you in the US can't compare how it is having your natural environment being split up, taken away, claimed by some "border".


There are many, many nations who fight each other...there are only a few tribes (Celts, Slavs, Germanics) in Europe and only one race (White)...

Where do you think the danger of going to war against each other proofed more true?

When was the last nation war?
When was the last tribal war?
When was the last race war?

...says all, doesn't it!

News / What is a Polish Nationalist? [47]


"Ingrained in our psyches" because of millennias of development are even more so tribalism and racism.
Many people can't even discern between the relatively new concept of "nationalism" and the age old feeling of belonging to a tribe, to a race - for them it is the same or interchangable!

The reason for uncounted bloodbaths in that relatively short time...tribal brothers killing each others in the name of their new nations!

That's why I see the EU as a progress...we are going back to our tribal roots (more or less).
We white Europeans are more or less of the same tribe and the same race...no more borders and no more wars (hopefully).

News / What is a Polish Nationalist? [47]

A nationalist is commonly someone who holds his nation above all others (a quite natural state of mind I would say. What only was made "political incorrect" in some circles during the last years, wrongly I might add!).

But southern....that also means anti-anyone who is perceived as a threat, regardless nationality, race or religion.
Not automatically pro-slavic or automatically anti-german...the former is rather a slavicist and the latter probably a racist! ;)