History / "Shafting the Poles" [44]

Strong military, as self dependent as physically possible and Polish should depend on Polish, as for Habsburgs frack them, we should have let Turks have both them and the Germans, we'd then pacify Russia and have a Pax Polonica eastwards and a better neighbour in the west.

History / Germans Exiles & Museum in Berlin in the eyes of Poles and UE nationals. [106]


Not really no, personally i believe that in the next 30-50 years Poland and France will supplant Germany as the regional centres of power, we might have some political or economic sparks but we're well beyond an armed conflict in any forseeable future.


IF EU survives the coming political crsis with Russia, IF Germany survives incoming social and economical crisis stemming from Turks and overblown social then Germany will become an undisputed political leader of Europe.

Except i dont believe Germany is poised to recover or EU is poised to survive, you've dominated an effective but inherently unstable international organization.


No and if not for your problematic economy, failing population and problems with history that will mess up your foreign policy and internal unity i'd tell you that Germany would unite Europe for good, there's still a tiny chance that it will but personally i dont think so.

History / Germans Exiles & Museum in Berlin in the eyes of Poles and UE nationals. [106]

Yes the point is she's not exiled, loads of people in her little cult were not exiled, she's not representing interests of exiled Germans rather than a desire to rewrite history in the worst possible way, history rewritten by former nazis and their sympathizers can lead to repeating your mistakes and remember that last time the only thing that saved Germany from annihilation was East/West conflict, otherwise you'd be a small agrarian state with thousands executed, sterilized or worse.

You asked Solomon if he was scared, its you who should be frightened because the road from rise of imperial ambitions to Germany existing only as few pages in history books is very short and straightforward.

History / Germans Exiles & Museum in Berlin in the eyes of Poles and UE nationals. [106]


See thats our major weakness, while Erica Steinbach is selling some immoral shite she packs it pretty and Germans buy it, we hold a sound position from both moral and logical point but its defended by raving idiots.

History / Germans Exiles & Museum in Berlin in the eyes of Poles and UE nationals. [106]


Just one?:)

History / Germans Exiles & Museum in Berlin in the eyes of Poles and UE nationals. [106]


Fine but she's still a nazi symphatizer, are we supposed to bend over for a woman who's clearly out against Poles just because she's the first to seriously tackle the issue of your history?


They were fine untill Steinbach came around, in fact they'd still be fine if you built a bloody city to memorize exiled Germans without Steinbach around, she herself is not a big deal unless she becomes a rallying banned for the re-emerging nazis and nazi apologetics.


Its "red rag" for Kaczyńscy, we have showed them in the elections what we think about them and in extention about their anti-German retoric as well.

History / Germans Exiles & Museum in Berlin in the eyes of Poles and UE nationals. [106]


Actually no, i think that if it weren't Steinbach the entire matter would never even get out, contrary to what you believe Polish bone is mainly with Steinbach and the entire enterprise was tainted by her personally.


She defamed herself enough with her associates and family history, trying to sell herself as an exile when her father was part of the invading army, i dont really need to help her.

History / Germans Exiles & Museum in Berlin in the eyes of Poles and UE nationals. [106]


Merkel is a politician first and foremost and nazis are making a slow comeback in places (Saxony) also like i said i doubt Merkel is an actual nazi, she's a nazi apologetist and symphatizer but she's quiet enough about it that Merkel can afford the association.

Right now the most important thing is she's trying to do something with your history, your history has been itching you for the past 64 years, and here comes a woman who wants to do something about it (rewrite it) so of course she'll have support.


And not by einsatzgruppenfuhrer Steinbach.

History / Germans Exiles & Museum in Berlin in the eyes of Poles and UE nationals. [106]


From historical perspective, i never argued against him being an awesome and impressive leader though, i might not like him since he didnt like Poles but i'm still impressed by the guy, i'm however thoroughly disgusted by Steinbach the only thing is i wonder whether she's an actual nazi or just a supporter.


Obviously because she's trying to deal with history, you're human beings, whenever peope speak of Germany there's Hitler in the background, whenever Germany speaks of Germany there's Hitler in the background, it a psychological issue for you and you need to deal with it but a nazi symphatizer running a show for ex nazi officials is not the best person to do it.


You said after WW1, after WW2, i bet they said it even in 1410, you always make a big show and land on your face, just to come back with "no more errors".


I said by now these people are dying off but they were/are present in her organisation which is a clear indication of her sympathies, i'm sorry but thats pretty solid proof, unless you're waiting for her to spray deodorant on a local rabbi in a lame attempt at gasing him?

History / Germans Exiles & Museum in Berlin in the eyes of Poles and UE nationals. [106]


I gave you proof, Spiegel 2006 august article thats so you could not weasel yourself out of it, here's some more:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Kr%C3%BCger

President of the "Federation of Expellees" worked as a Nazi judge, among his death sentences was one for harboring gypsie refugees, all sentences were given out under occupation law (which means those he had murdered either gave food to refugees, painted "independence" symbols or otherwise broke nazi imposed occupation regime).

Lets go further:

"The federation of expelees does not want to come clean with its nazi past"

Some quotes:

According to "Der Spiegel" among the top activists of the Federation there were more people tied with nationalistic socialism than believed thus far, from the investigation revealed that more than a third of 200 high ranking members of BDV were members of NSDAP, they're also revealed by other sources.

And here BB we have an interesting part.

"Steinbach powiedziała, że nie ma sobie nic do zarzucenia. Jej zdaniem trzeba odróżnić sympatyków od osób funkcyjnych, które są nie do przyjęcia dla związku. "

Steinbach says she cant accuse herself of anything, in her opinion you need to see a difference between sympathizers and active people.

This is all quoting Spiegel who investigated into history of BDV, this further shows Steinbachs pro nazi sympathies since many of these people who active members of administration carrying out executions, one of the former presidents was responsible for transports of Poles into 3rd Reich and is accused of organizing jewish death trains, there's more.

I'm sorry BB but you're lying to yourself and us, this is stark proof she is a pro nazi activist with an agenda, if its not proof to you its only because you're highly biased yourself.


Just make sure not to use former nazis in your whining circles when we reclaim another bit of Poland afterwards mwaaahaaa :)))

History / Germans Exiles & Museum in Berlin in the eyes of Poles and UE nationals. [106]

I dont have anything against Germans and BB knows that best, i have a lot against pro nazi people German or otherwise, Steinbach clearly supports nazism by harboring dozens of confirmed active nazis and creating a policy that makes members of an invading army into "exiles", its not only anti-Polish but clearly a pro nazi organisation, whether Steinbach is an actual nazi or not is irrelevant, she's their active supporter.

History / Germans Exiles & Museum in Berlin in the eyes of Poles and UE nationals. [106]


She's not a Neo-Nazi, she's a nazi symphatizer, if 1/3 of HER organization that SHE runs is made up of formerly active nazis then yes she is a nazi symphatizer and no "cut the crap" is going to change the facts.

Now please tell me why else would Steinbach had such a large number of formerly active nazis, some of them proven murderers in her group? No "cut the crap" your own newspaper published that, its not like we cant find the fact in other sources but i figured you wont question the "Spiegel" since its a prominent German newspaper.

History / Germans Exiles & Museum in Berlin in the eyes of Poles and UE nationals. [106]


Are you an idiot? Wait dont respond you are an incredible idiot, you're comparing a post war communist party with an organization that had Nazis in it? Many of whom were murdering civilians during the war?


Members of Steinbachs little cult were active nazis, there was even a guy accused of being a member of einsatzgruppen, at least a few were proven to give out death sentences in revenge executions, and you did not 'have' NSDAP membership like you did PZPR.


I gave you evidence BB, Spiegels article, title, month, you want others in english and polish? She runs an organization filled to the brim with former nazis, some of whom have taken part in civilian executions, how is that not nazi sympathizing?

I understand you want to rewrite history but what you're doing now is insolent, there's people in her organisation who shot civilians, there's people who served in SS, they make up 30% of all her members (or did many died off) and you claim she's not nazi? What is she then, collecting former nazis for fun? Out of pity?

History / Germans Exiles & Museum in Berlin in the eyes of Poles and UE nationals. [106]


I'm not some Poles and you should know by now i'm pretty objective with Germany in question.
Der Spiegels article from August 2006 is the easiest for you to check, the article in English titled "We're out of assets".

"For 200 members of the Exiled more than 1/3 were members of NSDAP..." "...status of an exiled is given to anyone who was expelled from both Poland and Western Germany, even soldiers of the invading army temporarily occupying the locations such as SS officers, the status is hereditary...".

1/3 of her organization is made up of former Nazis, there's a significant number of SS people there too, second president of the exiled Hans Kruger was issuing death sentences in Poland, all vice-presidents and 2 of the presidents had nazi past, a few of them took active part in mass murderers of Poles or Jews, Steinbach herself is not exiled but came to Poland with her father who was a Luftwaffe technician during the war.

And you ask why do we oppose such lies and anti-polish issues? Thats not an objective organization, its a bunch of old nazis and their kids trying to rewrite history and you write "Erica Steinbach for chancellor!".

History / Germans Exiles & Museum in Berlin in the eyes of Poles and UE nationals. [106]


And thats not an issue, from what i know Merkel is a sensible woman, where she chooses her friends is her choice, Steinbach is quiet enough about her pro-nazi sympathies not to damage the overall picture.


No german point of view that attempts to rewrite history, shift blame or victimize the culprits, the primary people responsible for German resettlement were Germans themselves.

However all this is a secondary issue, what matters is that this already controversial point of view is being promoted by an anti-polish pro nazi woman who's family in turn exiled Poles from their homes.


Again no, you laughed at me when i told you, you Germans are traumatized by WW2 unable to deal with the full weight of what you did, i can even deal with you slightly rewriting history for yourselves to sleep well at night but not under the banner of anti-polish and pro-nazi sympathies.

History / Germans Exiles & Museum in Berlin in the eyes of Poles and UE nationals. [106]


Yes i do and i dont know if she's a friend of Merkel, deffinitely a political associate.


No it doesnt, if someone is a nazi symphathized and a descendant of an ardent nazi upholding the family tradition he deserves our dislike, that she receives such support in Germany simply proves my point that your country is still problematic for Europe.

I wouldnt mind an exiles museum but if its run by a closet nazi with anti-polish agenda then we clearly have a major problem.

History / Germans Exiles & Museum in Berlin in the eyes of Poles and UE nationals. [106]


Neo-nazi anti polish bvtch that she is, she was against Poland in NATO, against Poland in EU, she has extensive ties with extreme right and is a daughter of an ardent Nazi who came to Poland and lived in a home of a Polish family that was either murdered or exiled themselves.

There is nothing to admire about her.

History / World War II - a tragic story for Poland and the World [489]


What is your point exactly? Hitler has been dead for 64 years now, people who served in Wehrmacht are dead or old, discussing any revenge or conflict 3 generations later when the situation has been stable for more than half a century is kinda pointless.

News / Kaliningrad. Problem, Threat or Opportunity for Poland? [185]


There is no justification for genocide, you had superior military might, you could and should have excersized restraint while sorting out the region, as for Chechenya Russia has absolutely no right to be there and everything it does in there is evil and wrong.

I didnt want to see you lose Kosovo but You, the Serbs are the main responsible party, with your genocidal policies you took away any credibility you might have as a side in the argument, now you just sit here and post "USA terrorist this, West terrorist that" instead of complaining about external powers look at the mistakes Serbia made, maybe you'll learn.


You're wrong.

Love / Help, Polish men are very complicated! [51]


Only if i manage to get the little ones into the backseat of my car O.O


Dude just go up to him "hi i'm starving for a bit of penis, would you like some coffee?" Dating is not rocket science ffs all it takes is to ask.

History / Poland: dont blame us its the Germans. [174]

Darius whats the point? Pretty much everyone else gave up on feeding that idiot by noticing his existence you just wind him up.

History / World War II - a tragic story for Poland and the World [489]


The primary culprit of Polands downfall was Poland itself, we allowed Germany and Russia to rise to power through our inaction and internal discord back when we were a major player in Europe, before you go medieval on anyone abroad take a critical look at our own nation.


Decades will pass before Poland is a country that can militarily, politically and economically topple Germany and when/if that happens we'll reach a level of normalization in our mutual relations in which war will be out of the question for either side so your point is absolutely moot.


Yes it would but you forget that German people are first and foremost not German but people, its easy to wipe your arse with terms like revenge or genocide on an internet forum, i agree that we should in the future work towards weakening German position but thats it.

News / Kaliningrad. Problem, Threat or Opportunity for Poland? [185]

Crow how about we take a look at Serbia, you went out of your way to murder Albos, if you just forcefully relocated them, but you gave Europe an excuse, you and your irresponsible policies are to blaim, before you go on about how great Serbia is notice its own mistakes.

You cant expect a XXI century civlized continent to sit and watch a tiny state go genocidal (thats important, Russia goes medieval in Chechenya but Russia has nukes, you are a political dwarf).

History / Poland: dont blame us its the Germans. [174]


One of the very veeery few western historians with an unbiased view of history, Polish or otherwise, plus because he's an outsider he see's things most of us Poles would not notice but he's accurate none the less.

Love / Help, Polish men are very complicated! [51]


He hates you, in fact he's using you to hook up with your thin pretty girlfriend, being nice to fat best friends never fails.

History / World War II - a tragic story for Poland and the World [489]


There were some very serious plans to partition Germany, give its major parts to Poland and France and make it into an agrarian federation, frankly i believe that Europe without Germany is better than with it since Germany was for a very long time "sick man of Europe" stirring conflict, right now though it seems Germany is redefining itself in a more peacefull spirit.


You see extermination of an entire people as OK? What about those few Germans who did oppose Nazis and helped opressed civilians?


Politics do not operate in terms of vengance, Germany would have been destroyed as a meaningful European country but was preserved as a tool in conflict between Russia and the West.

History / World War II - a tragic story for Poland and the World [489]


This is getting old, we both know history, Bismarck was an ardent proponent of achieving domination through military might, thats how.

Military and war are a neccesity at times but making them a premiere solution to international disputes and raising an entire nation with such a deep conviction damaged the entire social structure and perception of reality of an average German, Hitler and WW2 are the result of it, thats why Bismarck bears so much responsibility.

Time to hit the sack, i'll abuse Otto some more tomorrow :)

History / World War II - a tragic story for Poland and the World [489]


Bismarck was just one of the primary culprits, he wound Germans up to a point where there was no return, as for Hitler his nationality doesnt matter, he could just as well be a pink martian, the point is that he was a nutter and due to the Prussias failure in WW1 Germans largely incapable of going on as they were allowed him power they were so desperate for some success, any success.

He gave it to them allright, and then your women were giving birth to healthy russian boys, that is if they survived the rape or if they werent in Dresden at the time, you were still lucky you didnt get sterilized, starved or partitioned, only the rivarly between Stalin and the West prevented your destruction as an european power.


Germany would have united anyway, the only question was who and how would unite it, Bismarck was not the best man for the job.


Doesnt matter, WW1 would have happened anyway since there was no other way to achieve dominant role and Prussia wouldnt want to achieve it any other way, you would lose even if you cloned Bismarck and made him into an army since WW1 was about mathematics, they had more and then WW2 would still happen for reasons mentioned.

By the time of Bismarck Germany had its history written down for another 60 years.

History / World War II - a tragic story for Poland and the World [489]


No we wouldnt, Poland was at the time focused on the East actively colonizing Ukraine and pushing into Russia, German states were dwarfs politically and economically, they were looked down at as weaker and too different and Poland was slowly losing political integrity due to increasing power of the great noble houses within, its not that we physically couldnt because we could, there was no power in Germany to stop us at that time but we were focused elsewhere and lacked foresight to know that Prussia would become a danger.


I already did, he was an extention of the Prussian school of thought were military might and discipline are means to political success, "blood and iron" his words BB arent they?

But what if blood and iron fail? What happens when you lose? You end up with a nation completely incapable of dealing with it, people raised for generations for victory or else just couldnt take the "or else" and thats why Hitler happened.

History / World War II - a tragic story for Poland and the World [489]

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Oh please, the Commonwealth was in Moscow, twice, at that particular time our military was miles above anyone else and it showed in the outcomes of battles, Swedes, Turks, Muscovites, the largest, most skilled or both, skill and determination were the two things the Commonwealth had pouring out its ears at its height.


Definitely not but Poland had all the political means to either keep Germany in parts or help Austria unite it, Austria was in 15-17 century a very pro-Polish state and who knows how our relations would look today.


Thats mostly because of the communism and partianlly intentional effort of the West, for the last few generations it was not comfortable to teach that one of the greatest European powers in history is now a blood red commie, before that there were partitions and partitioners did not want Poland remembered that way either so its hardly strange that Poland is not as widely known for its golden period, it existed none the less.


Yes but it was born in Prussia of kings and nurtured by Bismarck, Nazis are a direct result of massive psychological breakdown of Germans raised by their leaders to be soldiers, not even warriors but soldiers set on an unflexible path, its a wonder that Germany recovered at all but the trauma is there even if its not immidietaly haunting you at night.