News / Polish-German Relations in the Present [697]

re: What SCANDAL in Poland? Anybody?

- Perhaps the media allegations - never proved true - pertaining to Agriculture Minister Lepper. Just stupid stuff fabricated by the likes of the Gazeta Wyborcza (the most disliked rag in Poland).

News / Polish-German Relations in the Present [697]

re: Maybe...but would you please explain your "since ages"-sentence?

- 'For ages.' - The drive to 'the East' (including Poland) in the Middle Ages. Prussia of Friedrich II. Bismarck's Germany (e.g. the invasion of France). WWI. WWII.

Your philosopher Nietzche mentions the horror of 'the blond beast' in Europe. Your great poet Heine suggests that when the Germans rise up the whole world shakes.

News / Polish-German Relations in the Present [697]

re: Yes, even 60 years after the war we Poles still feel its effects

- And so do you, Germans. Don't you? Don't you, Butty, dwell compulsively on WWII and its aftermath? You do, just as we do.

News / Polish-German Relations in the Present [697]

re: You bombed and shot down civilians in Poland, Yugoslavia, England.

- Actually, I don't know about shooting down of English civilians by the Germans. My sentence should therefore sound: You bombed civilians in Poland, Yugoslavia, England; you shot them down en masse in Poland, Yugoslavia and in other occupied countries.

News / Polish-German Relations in the Present [697]

re: And here I always thought it was Poles who forcefully drove the Germans out....neither Stalin or Roosevelt...silly me!

- Well, if you yourself admit: 'silly me,' then be it. :) So you have always thought the Poles 'forcefully drove the Germans'? So that's what they teach you in Germany? By the way, did Germans, along with the Russians, partition Poland in the late 1700s, or not? Did you grab e.g. Gdansk (called by you: Danzig) from us in 1700s, or not? How much Polish teritory did you grab as a result of partitions? Did you chase out Poles from their homes during WWII and put in their place German settlers, or not?

re: Neither were the victims of the bombings or the expellings the bullies but rather women and children

- The Germans as a nation were the bullies during WWII. The vast majority of you backed a murderous and crazy regime (yes, Hitler was crazyin that he underestimated the power of the British Empire, then of Russia). You started an aggressive war. You bombed and shot down civilians in Poland, Yugoslavia, England. You didn't care about their fate. You expelled countless people from their homes. You got paid back by the same coin. You brought it down upon yourselves.

re: nor would I ever demand from you to mourn OUR deads....we Germans are quite capable of that alone, thank you!

- Well, I thought you were demanding pity for the Germans in the following utterance: 'The good (Jews, Poles, etc.) who are demand tears and compassion and the bad ones (Germans)...who are not really victims and don't deserve any feelings at all???No tears for them!'

Or you perhaps demanded it not from us, Poles, only from e.g. the English and American members? If yes, then why? Why would you divide Polish Forum members like that?

re: For self-pity NOBODY can hold a torch to you Poles....even after 60 years you are still full of it and even try to use it internationally to your advantage...:)

- Even your postings seem to indicate that it's Germans who pity themselves beyond measure, absurdly; they pity themselves to such an extent that they demand from their victors the same treatment as the victors' own war casualties. Besides, I think that you're scared to say that you think it's actually the Jewish people who pity themselves beyond measure. Don't be such a coward, butty; let go what you really think. :)

Yes, even 60 years after the war we Poles still feel its effects, and we feel uneasy when numerous Germans try to falsify history, portraying themselves as the victims of the Poles in WWII, accusing us (along with many zionists) of 'antisemitism' (to divert attention from their dark deeds), making property claims, belittling and ridiculing their war crimes against the Poles (I mean here ethnic Poles).

re: Did you already forgot that if it had not been for the generosity of the victors of WWI there wouldn't had been a Poland

- In November 1918, soon after the end of WWI, Poland became free again; the German and Russian occupiers were kicked out. What's so diminishing that countries stronger than us, such as Great Britain and France, recognized us as an independent country? If it's diminishing, then also the Allied recognition of West Germany (in 1949?) is diminishing. Actually, the Allies, especially the Americans from Roosevelt's entourage (e.g. the Jewish guy Morgenthau), fed up with the German pugnacity and destructive role in Europe for ages, had plans to convert the Germans into an agricultural nation e.g. by destroying the Ruhr region. You avoided this fate only by the hair's breath. Now is that diminishing, or not? ;)

Enough said.... I feel so tired by all this. And I myself would feel happy if we all could really forgive each other, shake hands, give each other a hug, cry together over the killed Poles, Germans, Englismen, Americans, Serbs, Czechs, Russians, Finns, and all others, drink toasts to the memory of the war dead. That would be good for Europe indeed. But is it possible today? Is it possible if there are folks with such an attitude as that of Butty? May Heaven allow me live long enough to witness a Europe where all nations, including Poles and Germans, love each other like brothers.

I can only say that if the Germans changed their contemptuous attitude towards us, then we would change our attitude towards them in an eye wink.

We could like you (almost the same) as we like e.g. the Brits.
:)

News / Polish-German Relations in the Present [697]

re: The good (Jews, Poles, etc.) who are demand tears and compassion and the bad ones (Germans)...who are not really victims and don't deserve any feelings at all???

No tears for them!

- As long as the Germans don't turn it upside down so that the Germans become the good ones and e.g. the Poles the bad ones. There is the tendency in the Germans to 'revise' things in this way. And this tendency is older than the WWII period, or even than the just after WWI period. The Germans aggressively attack first and when beaten up, they shed crocodile tears over their lot and blame those whom they attacked. The German self-pity is abhorrent indeed. It's the Germans who were the aggressors in WWII. They got beaten up. From the viewpoint of those with whom the Germans fought, i.e. the Allies, the German civilian losses are the enemies losses and should not be mourned as much as the Allied losses. Do the Germans mourn the civilians killed by the Germans in e.g. in England and Poland? Never heard of that! Isn't it therefore an incredible arrogance on the German part to demand that the German losses be mourned by the Allies just as the Allied losses?

News / Polish-German Relations in the Present [697]

I thought, Amathyst, that you meant non-Jews when you mentioned Poles, Hungarians and Gypsies.

Lots of non-Jews died in German camps too.

But I've never heard about Hungarian gentiles dying in those camps.

By the way, other countries also had labour camps. The Russian ones were far worse than the German ones; there's actually no comparison between them. E.g. German camps had hospitals, doctors, etc.

Don't forget that Germany was waging war, so people in labour camps, deemed as, and often being, sworn enemies of the Third Reich, could not be treated gently.

I'm not going easy on war criminals; I am saying all this for the sake of historical truth.

By the way, as far as I know, no Russian commie criminals have been brought to justice so far. Only the German ones, even if their guilt is hard to prove and they are folks in their eighties. This is outrageous indeed.

News / Polish-German Relations in the Present [697]

re: Hungarian

- I've never heard about Hungarians dying in German concentration camps. Hungary was on the German side in WWII. Hungarians took part , among others, in the cruel suppression of the Warsaw Rising in 1944. Also, Slovaks, Bulgarians, Rumanians, Croats, Ukrainians, all were on the German side during WWII. Only Poles, Czechs and Serbs fought on the Allied side.

Actually, the neo-Nazi movement is particularly strong in Hungary.

News / Polish-German Relations in the Present [697]

I don't think the Polish-German relations are dead. How could they be dead? We're such close neighbours. The relations have actually just started - really started, that is, because what was before was just something totally fake and dishonest. Personally, I am optimistic about the future of the relations. Our politicians can communicate with each other very well. And no amount of hate from the media psychopaths, who try to set our nations against one another, seems really able to change it.

PS. And yes, the Polish-German relations could be much worse if types of Cohn-Bendit's ilk started ruling Germany. Cohn-Bendit - a Marxist hooligan in the 1960s in France, isn't German, by the way.

Also, yes, Poles and Germans aren't nations who have, ahem, lots of amicability towards each other. But this can be improved in time, I think.

I think that the Germans should govern Europe along with the British and French.

By the way, when as a kid in communist Poland I was visiting Auschwitz along with my schoolmates, I was bored too. And depressed. Some of the kids, in order to cheer up, joked stupidly, as kids do in all places where they shouldn't, e.g. churches.

On the other hand, such visits have an important purpose and value, of course. Lots remains in one from them.

News / What do you think about what the Kaczynskis say about Germans ? [90]

Polson, no, you're certainly not Polonophobic, sunny. Have a good holiday in Poland.
:)

News / What do you think about what the Kaczynskis say about Germans ? [90]

re: i think you can't say he's a very nice person by being even a little "anti-semitic"

- Well, but is he? By the way, would you also say it's not a very nice person one who is even a little Polonophobic?

re: by wanting Polish schools to stop reading books of Goethe or Sienkiewicz

- This has been blown out of proportion by the media hacks, I'm afraid. (Notice how they spread hatred, set people against each other.) In reality, Mr Giertych postulated withdrawing all the books that are difficult to read, and replacing them with easy-reads. and that's what he should be perhaps criticised for - for going to easy on the students. But maybe he's right? Such 'Faust' by Goethe, which was on the school readings list in Poland through all the communist era, can be dropped off, not because it's German (Goethe, by the way, wasn't a Polonophobe), but because it's to hard to get through by high school students nowadays. And the sole Polish translation, by Konopka, seems outdated already. By the way, are German high school kids forced to read 'Pan Tadeusz' by Mickiewicz? Do English or French kids are forced to read 'Faust' by Goethe or even 'Hamlet' by Shakespeare?

re: but to prefer more "Christian" ones

- What's wrong with Christian literature? After all, Poland is still a Christian nation.

re: or i don't remember what

- No, you don't, and it shows.
:)

News / What do you think about what the Kaczynskis say about Germans ? [90]

re: Roman is not a very brainy guy

- Why not, Greg? I hear people saying this, but not giving any clear reasons. So do you know the clear reasons?

Cheers.
:)

News / What do you think about what the Kaczynskis say about Germans ? [90]

Polson, also Roman Giertych has been demonised by the media hacks, not only in Poland, but all over Europe. There are, for example, dripping-with-hateful-venom attacks against him by the Italian hacks.

And his father Maciej has been demonised by the EU Parliament itself. Especially its German members scolded him angrily for - guess what? - his alleged 'antisemitism.'

Thing is our present government is disliked by the power circles in Europe for its caring for what all other European countries care for - the national interest. Of all the EU countries, 'East Europeans' have no right to do that; they are expected to shut up, obey, and be grateful for being EU members.

News / What do you think about what the Kaczynskis say about Germans ? [90]

re: did you get a box from chicago?

- Not even one tiny box on the ears. And I lived there many years. (The rhyme unintended.)

How about you, sledz, do you steal 'alot' or just 'alilbit'?
:)

News / What do you think about what the Kaczynskis say about Germans ? [90]

Do you mean zion is unhappy in Poland? I've thought he loves Poland; that's what he seemed to suggest in his posts.

re: hey I remember last winter

Sledz, are you addressing me, Puzzler?

News / What do you think about what the Kaczynskis say about Germans ? [90]

Just a similar style of writing, quite unlike that of the real zion (if I may call him so).
:)

News / What do you think about what the Kaczynskis say about Germans ? [90]

Hey, espana. Good to see you again. Where have you been? Banned perhaps? I hope not. Was it you who used 'zion' as nick in the meantime?

So the Spanish opposition leader thanked Kaczynskis for their stand at the last EU summit, because thanks to Poland Spain will have more votes than she would have had if the new weighing votes system had been in place.

:)

re: Hetero pride parade? I like that! Lets do it!

Ola, how about if just you and me did it, e.g. in my place?
;)

USA, Canada / The things Polish people do in the US [46]

Shopgirl, 'Ammies' sounds cool. :)))))))))))

And how should we Poles be called diminutively?

Pollies? :))))))))))))))

News / What do you think about what the Kaczynskis say about Germans ? [90]

re: even a good friend of mine who is gay, feels that the parades generally don't help towards acceptance. It tends to do the opposite

- An excellent point, Shopgirl. I've met homosexual folks in Poland who think exactly as your friend does.

I wonder how would both heterosexual and homosexual people react if some heterosexual people carried out noisy and explicit 'hetero pride parades'?
:)
PS. Shopgirl, hello! Good day, sunshine! Thanks for all your warm words in previous posts. Of course, I'll contact you through your new e-mail re I-Ching and more. I hope you contact me as well. And I know that you understand me on this forum. Thanks for that. You're the sweetest of sweeties. :)

USA, Canada / The things Polish people do in the US [46]

I know of a few more things the Poles in America do, and it makes me shake in terror.

They breathe when alive.

They keep their eyes open when not sleeping.

And - the horror of horrors! - they laugh when amused.

So it's right that they still must apply for the American visas.

News / What do you think about what the Kaczynskis say about Germans ? [90]

Polson, as for so-called 'homophobia' in Poland. - In Poland, many people object to the gay 'parades,' to the propagation of homosexuality in schools, and to the attempts to 'convert' to one's 'sexual orientation.' Many Poles don't care who sleeps with whom, as long as it is not advertised noisily. They regard - perhaps rightly? - the noisy advertising as abhorrent and shameless.

Now why wouldn't this attitude be modern?

You seem to suggest that you're a tolerant guy. Are you, really? - You seem to have no tolerance for the aforementioned attitude.

You're a lucky guy - you can go to Poland soon and have all the Polish food you want. Have a good time there.

;)

News / What do you think about what the Kaczynskis say about Germans ? [90]

re: stay calm Puzzler

- Do you assume I'm not calm? Why?

re: I don't know if you read it but i'm half Polish, my mother is Polish, so I don't want to attack Poland or saying wrong things about it.

- Well, but so far you've been attacking the Kaczynskis - i.e. politicians widely supported in Poland - rather aggressively, and it's not clear for what exactly. For their alleged Germanophobia? If yes, you haven't given any evidence of this alleged Germanophobia.

re: I didn't say that the Poles were not modern !! It's just the fact of being untolerant that is not modern.

- You mean the Poles are modern, but they are not modern as regards their being 'untolerant' (sic)? What would you mean by our bering 'untolerant'?

re: Polish Prime Minister: 'Something Very Negative' Happening in Germany

- So you again are repeating - just copying - Butty the German's quotes? Is it those quotes from which you derived your convictions, expressed in this thread, about the Kaczynskis? If you are allegedly so well educated, you ought to be able to question what others say (and what you yourself assume). Hence don't you have any misgivings about the news you have quoted? What did Kaczynski actually say, and what did the author of the quote (a German hack?) add to Kaczynski's statement?

re: Do you think that all the Germans were Nazis ?

- Do you mean whether I think that all the Germans belonged to the Nazi party - NSDAP? If so, then no, I don't think all of them belonged to the NSDAP. But historical evidence shows that the vast majority of the Germans - practically all of them - backed Hitler and the NSDAP.

re: there were a lot of them who were against, but if they told it, they were killed

- That's what the more recent propaganda says. But historical facts seem to contradict the propaganda. See e.g. Hans Fallada's 'Jeder stirbt für sich allein' (published in 1947, the year of author's death); it's a novel, but one that seems to have some historical value. It seems to show that those who opposed Hitler in so-called Nazi Germany were very few and utterly estranged from the predominantly pro-Hitler population.

re: I'm not protecting the Germans, but just criticizing what the Kaczynskis sometimes say

- Hm, as I understand, you don't like it that one of the Kaczynskis said that something very negative is taking place in Germany. You seem to think that in saying it Kaczynski was anti-German. Why would you think so? What if he had a point?

re: as Angela Merkel was born 10 years after the end of the war, how can you think she was involved in the Nazis "crazyness" ??

- Did I ever say she was involved in the Nazi 'crazyness' (sic)? On the other hand, I didn't say she wasn't. Does the fact of one's being born 10 years after WWII make one automatically excluded from involvement e.g. in Hitler worship? I know at least a few dozens of cases of folks born after Hitler's death who are fanatic Hitler worshippers. Even on this forum, the feller you quote from - calling himself Butwurst Boy - seems to be born long after WWII, and he seems to worship Hitler nonetheless. :)

By the way, such Polonophobes as the one calling himself 'most' should not be any authority to you, if, as you seem to suggest, you wish Poland good.

And qui, bon appetite. What are you having?
:)

UK, Ireland / The British workers denied jobs because they can't speak Polish [45]

re: I find it pretty sad that English people are being discounted from jobs in their homeland because they do not speak Polish...

- So you assume, Amathyst, that the Daily Mail and MP Moss story is true after all? Even if the latter can't tell specifically where and when the alleged incident took place?

And you wrote in an e-mail to me that English folks like you 'dont believe what is (for the most) repoted in our news papers, we all have our own views.'

Do you meant by those 'our own views' those spread by the psychopaths and liars of the Daily Mail and Mr Moss's ilk?
:)

News / What do you think about what the Kaczynskis say about Germans ? [90]

re: Be modern, bud !

- Another negative French stereotype of the Poles ('not modern')?

Why do you imply he's not modern?

News / What do you think about what the Kaczynskis say about Germans ? [90]

Shawn, absolutely. ;)

USA, Canada / The things Polish people do in the US [46]

re: The things Polish people do in the US

- You mean: all the Polish people in the US do that?

Including yourself (if you're Polish)?
:)

re: lies, all lies

- You mean: truth, all truth?
:)

News / What do you think about what the Kaczynskis say about Germans ? [90]

re: I just don't like the way they say that it's the fault of the Germans if today Poland has less population.

- Where did 'they' say it? Quote them. By the way, isn't it largely because of the Germans that we have less population than we should have had?

re: First it was the fault of the Nazis,

- What do you mean by 'the Nazis'? Do you say that there was or is a nation called 'Nazis'? And their country is perhaps called Nazistan? :) Have you heard Hitler's speeches? Does he talk in them about the great Nazistan or another entity? Does he express in them his care for 'the Nazis' or somebody else?

re: then it's enough difficult for German people to accept this part of their history,

- How moving that you care so much for the tender feelings of the German people. Of course, you don't seem to care a jot for the feelings of such nonentities like us Poles. So that's what they teach you in France? If yes, why do you say the French are allegedly oh so friendly towards us?

re: and to finish, Angela Merkel has nothing to see with what happened 60 years ago

- How do you know it? And why do you state it here?

By the way, my conversation withy you tires me off. You make some statements, but can't back them with facts. You must be quite young and not very well educated? Am I right?

:)

News / What do you think about what the Kaczynskis say about Germans ? [90]

Shopgirl, it was a great party. Not just me, all of us had fun. I loved the way you had fun. Well, if Butty didn't reciprocate, then my seeing good in him wouldn't matter.

By the way, in his e-mail to me (hm, why not here, on this forum, openly?) daffy the Irish moderator has threatened me I can be soon kicked out from this forum for good. He wrote he suspended me for the second time for 24 hours, on the grounds that somebody had complained against me. He didn't explain what the complaint was about; he just accepted it was justified. He suggested that one more complaint against me, and I'm out. Got me really scared, ooh! ;) How sad that there's such censorship on the Internet. And on the alleged Polish forum at that. But at least it isn't being done by a Polish person. So, Shopgirl, I'd like to keep in touch with you if I'm kicked out, and with other folks like Patti too. We'll have our partis elsewhere.

;)

re:By the way, isn't she?

- I meant: by the way, isn't today Germany a bit like Nazi Germany, as regards the drive to rule Europe almost single-handedly?

News / What do you think about what the Kaczynskis say about Germans ? [90]

re: So no I didn't invent it all, i just saw it !

- But where, when? Can you give the name of the source, a quote? - The stuff by Butty, from the German media, seems to be a misrepresentation. Kaczynski has never said that today Germany is like Hitler's Germany.

So you provide evidence to me by quoting from Butty's post, from his quote from the German media? Do you think it's credible?

By the way, isn't she? I mean the drive to rule Europe, especially so-called Eastern Europe, practically single-handedly? (The French pol Le Pen once said, in an interview with the Jewish paper Haaretz, that 'Eastern Europe' would be Germany's hinterland. One wouldn't mind that, provided that the Germans didn't become abusive. Would they be able not to become abusive?) Even you, the French, the leading EU-enthusiasts, didn't accept the constitution treaty backed by the Germans. Why? Not out of fear it would give the Germans too much power?

By the way, I myself think that the unification of Europe is absolutely necessary for Europe's survival. I would like Germany to lead Europe, along with the French and the British. But are these countries wise enough to agree with each other as regards the division of political power? I wonder.

News / What do you think about what the Kaczynskis say about Germans ? [90]

Polson, so you can't explain why you don't like the Kaczynskis, nor prove why Tusk was allegedly 'better' than them, nor explain who compared whom to the Nazis, nor where and when the Kaczynskis allegedly compared today Germany to Hitler's Germany, nor where did you take it from that the Kaczynskis allegedly want every one in Poland to think Germany is dangerous to Poland?

Should I therefore conclude that your allegations are all false and you tell lies?

Should I conclude that your statements about the Kaczynskis (the best most decent politicians in free Poland to date) are the efect of your absorbing the persistent Polonophobic propaganda in the French media?

:)

Polson seems to be convinced that the Kaczynski brothers are 'still single.'

- Well, actually, President Kaczynski is happily married, with children and grandchildren.

Do the French hacks say he's single?
:)
PS. How about if I started insulting your own French Prez, calling him names? What would your reaction be? Perhaps outrage?