News / 14 year old rape victim from Warsaw denied abortion! [348]

For me, it's very much about listening to your partner. She knows much more how contraception pills work on her and has stopped using them as she has deemed prolonged use to be harmful to her. I'm not a big fan of condoms but they don't have any chemical effect on me. Sex is a reality (no, ba) and when you get the ball rolling on that one, your partner will ask questions if the standard regularity stops. She will feel like she has done sth wrong to make you disinterested. However, intentions or behaviour is often misinterpreted and almost everything can be solved by talking.

I see your point, M-G. I don't get the position of the RCC on this one. Maybe the resident Poles can help out as my German and Czech contacts don't understand it either. They think it's anachronistic and impractical.

Maybe George W Bush has the answer. Watch and see what he says, youtube.com/watch?v=iEuXc5gGtBg, Bush shedding some light. Probably the most honest answer he has ever come out with.

News / 14 year old rape victim from Warsaw denied abortion! [348]

M-G, that's a general position that I take but it's such a complicated issue and I also feel that I don't need to take a stand unless my woman or a woman close to me asks me for my opinion on it. What right do I have otherwise? I have been arguing that rape is a special case and Gunslinger couldn't accept that the Church of England accepted abortion only under 3 exceptions. That was the only thing they wrote in block capitals on the whole page, 'WE ARE MORALLY OPPOSED TO ABORTION AS AN EVIL' but still they saw fit to class abortions for rape victims as defensible. I agree with their position.

In standard cases, if you grant sb a right, they often use it. I love babies and was having fun with my wife's bro's (Tomek) baby today. He will be 9 months tomorrow. I asked Tomek when he first thought of Maks as a kid and he said it was hard to say but when they knew they Maks was healthy and on his way, he regarded it as a kid then. Not quite from conception but shortly thereafter. His wife would have found it soul destroying to U-turn when this is what they had been striving towards for a long time. They took a responsible attitude towards it and they see the fruits of their labour. Therefore, I really abhor the notion of killing life on its way to full personhood but reasons for abortion are mixed and varied. To guard against getting them cheaply, I'd make it that they'd have to pay for them as a deterrent and to take extra care. If there was an accident, e.g pierced condom etc etc, then that would be different but proof is a hard thing in such matters. What's a man to do, take the condom to the doctor? Anyone can pierce a condom and claim it was during sex. The practicalities are endless.

My opinion on the use of aborted foetuses for medical research? Hmm...that's a tough question, M-G. The test specimen is now dead which greatly changes things. However, what kind of testing do you envisage? The abortion itself was the painful deed so I don't imagine that medical research beyond that is gonna sour the milk anymore. It's all about consent. I can draw an analogy to organ removal after death. I see the logic of donating my organs as I'll be dead and don't need them. Sb else can get the use of them. However, I have told my parents that they don't have my consent to do that as I feel that my organs are part of me and they will be buried with me. Strange? Maybe but you help people in your lifetime through teaching, helping with shopping bags, supporting them through bereavement/grieving, lending them cash in tough times, lifting heavy objects ( I helped out Polish guys without them asking) and with asking them if they need the right change (it can be a pain for them otherwise). I help people in any way I can. If they are good people worthy of help, it's in my nature to help them. Still, my organs are my organs and thus let me tie it back to the thread. It's up to the parents of the aborted child and weighted more in favour of the woman of course, 70-30% at least. Just think of how we treat life that dies. We keep their ashes, visit their graves or make other arrangements. The same is with abortion, it's for the parents to decide.

That's about it for now.

Life / IS THERE NFL PROGRAMS IN POLAND [60]

What's with the teeth thing? Scots have good teeth :) For those that don't, we can always count on the Poles,
treatmentabroad.com/cosmetic-dentistry-abroad/poland/patient-stories/polish-dentist-scottish-teeth

Anyway, this is about the NFL. Where do I "slam" America? What special relationship?

footballcanada.com/useredits/Image/Amercian%20football%20in%20Poland%2 0update%20January%202009.pdf

The above shows the link to Poland. If you don't wanna take it from me that it's growing, you can ask my American friends who coach different teams here.

As for the NFL, do you really think I was so young that I wouldn't remember Eric Dickerson of the Colts and Rams? I am clueless on the players of some teams from the 80's but I could probably tell you all the team names without Googling. In fact, bank on it.

Life / IS THERE NFL PROGRAMS IN POLAND [60]

A toddler? I was 9 or 10. We mature quicker in Scotland ;0 ;)

Look at his rushing stats, Scrappy. You know where to find them.

I loved American Football at a young age and collected helmets from different teams. My dad and I always watched it together with coverage from Gary Imlach. John Riggins too if my memory serves me correctly.

I'm not American, AND? That was one of the stupidest things you have ever said but you can edit. What, only Americans like American football? Only Scots like golf? Only the English like football? Are you nuts?

Crow? He is a self-proclaimed economist who may well come through here to Gliwice. I'll find out what he knows or doesn't know on many topics.

Life / IS THERE NFL PROGRAMS IN POLAND [60]

You have just proven that you don't know your own sport, chum. He scored a rushing touchdown in 4 of his 5 Superbowls.

I was describing QB's, read above. In 1986, he was a major rusher. His overall roundedness secured him a place in the 1987 AFC Pro Bowl. I loved those events, all the top dudes.

News / 14 year old rape victim from Warsaw denied abortion! [348]

That's one point which Gunslinger made well, the ruthless profiteering at the expense of ethics. The Helsinki Declaration would cream them for that (if you forgive the pun).

2 opinions is the law in Scotland but I believe that if a woman can show that she fully understands the repercussions/implications, then her opinion shouldn't count as anything less than theirs.

I am generally anti-abortion as it disgusted me watching an abortion. However, I've been in excrutiating pain after an operation above my kneecap and know that it has to be about more than pain.

As you said, the ethical ramifications are major right across the board here.

Life / IS THERE NFL PROGRAMS IN POLAND [60]

I used to love watching QB's with character. Randall Cunningham of the Philadelphia Eagles was a brilliant runner. He could easily carve out a space and keep the passing option open.

Although not statistically the best, Boomer Esiason of the Cincinnati Bengals was worth watching. He had an interesting style.

John Elway was in a class of his own at the top of his game. A super rusher with great vision.

My American friends, who are coaches for 2 different teams here, have also played QB and they love Jay Schraeder. I know of him but didn't follow him too closely.

I never watched Favre enough to know why he was all the rage. Troy Aikman and Warren Moon were instrumental in their teams' success. Bernie Kosar was underrated.

History / The most influencial socialists leaders in Polish lands? [26]

Piłsudski as he was in control of the Socialist Party. He influenced many people but, arguably, wasn't the most effective leader as, upon his death, he hadn't met many of his objectives.

News / If Poland is attacked by Russia will N.A.T.O help defend Poland or not? [171]

Then you could benefit from learning. Go and read up on optimisation and norm-fixing as I don't seem to be discussing with sb on my level. Try and see how HR agencies work, Scrappy. We have many in the UK and I have had first-hand experience with them.

I didn't say that the middle class profited at all. They don't and had you asked me I would have told you that. In fact, scour the forum as I think I've made this point 2 or 3 times in other places. The people lose out and we SAW that. I repeat, we SAW that. I'm not blind, I saw what happened too.

Select groups profit from a crisis and Joe Bloggs doesn't feature in that. Scrappy, I have admitted that Economics was one of my weaker subjects at uni but it still seems to be streets ahead of yours. One such group would be any group connected with lawsuits. For example, software companies like Autonomy. Prime borrowers and first-time home buyers too.

Get this, those who stock up on gold bullion too. Mr Silverstein not only profited from this but from his insurance policy too.

Anyway, Scrappy, I'll go back to language you understand. We need to get back to the thread topic.

Before I have you pushed out, I suggest you start staying on topic.

Question for you. Do you know where Poland is on a map? NATO would likely not defend Poland but it would depend on the political climate of the time and the gravity of the attack.

News / If Poland is attacked by Russia will N.A.T.O help defend Poland or not? [171]

This discussion is laughable, you are the great economic experts who are going to teach me sth? LOL. Save it!

It is arms firms that will cash in the most. It depends how much your society values outsourcing too. Agencies stand to gain from from cutting wages.

News / 14 year old rape victim from Warsaw denied abortion! [348]

Great advice APU from Patty. This is actually a legal requirement in Scotland. Regardless of the merits of it as seen by others, it has sth to commend it IMHO.

This is where Gunslinger needs to listen. I guess he has been slapped a hundred times for insolence. Let the women talk, they are the ones that have to endure these issues.

Language / 'Gateway' slavic language? [54]

Very good post, Osioł. Just don't say 'szukać' too often ;) ;)

Life / IS THERE NFL PROGRAMS IN POLAND [60]

I'm a European and Walter Payton was one of my favourite players, I even mentioned him above.

Joe Montana, are you kidding? I think many Europeans will have heard of him. Montana and Rice, what a combo!

Language / 'Gateway' slavic language? [54]

According to a reliable almanac, Esperanto's actual usefulness fell well short of his hopes. There were far fewer speakers of it than he had predicted.

News / If Poland is attacked by Russia will N.A.T.O help defend Poland or not? [171]

I think it's somewhere in the middle, guys. It used to be that the Soviet Union was the great antagonist and pusher of an imperialistic agenda. Yes, they have maintained this lust for Russianness and territory, as can be seen from the Chechen Wars. However, the Caucasus is a major part of their foreign policy now, representing a shift away from the Baltic (former CIS) states and Poland. Georgia and Chechnya are of more strategic importance to them.

What must be remembered is that, bluffing or otherwise, Russia threatened to hit Poland with missiles from Kalingrad if they went ahead with the missile shield. Taunting them by signing it is sth like an invitation to treat, a willingness to engage them. It was Poland who showed their hand, only to get nothing from it but Russian antipathy.

However, political enemies and everyday enemies are seldom the same beast. Tusk and Putin met in Sopot and they have met on other occasions too. They don't have the hostility that, for example, Hispanics and Black gangs have. Politics is a game and gang fights are for real.

I agree with Crow in that there is more chance to do business with Russia.

News / JEW YOUTH SHOULD CLEAN UP THEIR ACT IN POLAND [420]

There is some truth in what Joe is saying, M-G. Haaretz I think it is. They spread propaganda and there is perhaps no greater forum for it than in the ME on both sides.

This is how Bosnia did so well, they hired the help of reputable PR firms whereas Serbia was left with the impossible task of trying to sell the truth to an uninterested public who had already been told that they were they bogeymen.

Ask for the Jewish youth in PL, when was the last documented time that this happened? I don't read newspapers these days, of any description. I am one cynical son-of-a-gun when it comes to this. As long as my family is alright, I'm not interested in the vast majority of the mind-numbing BS that comes from the press.

If it's a factual sth or a documentary, then I can become interested :)

Life / IS THERE NFL PROGRAMS IN POLAND [60]

Sledz has a point. Many has-beens go and play in MLS. Guys who were great in their heyday but see out their careers there, i.e Carlos Valderrama.

Another factor which may support his point is the whole Beckham disappointment. Any primadonnas that come across will make fans lose interest. NFL has a longer history than MLS.

What may encourage Americans to go and watch soccer is the fact that they have a pretty good international team in terms of rankings. Without Googling, I can tell you some top quality players that you have had over the years.

4 top goalkeepers in Tony Meola, Brad Friedel, Kasey Keller and Tim Howard. I know the latter 3 from the Premiership in England when they were there and Meola from WC 1994.

Alexi Lalas, the bearded wonder, I remember from Padova. I used to follow Lazio when Gazza played there. That got me interested in Italian calcio.

One of the most underrated players I have seen, Tab Ramos. He was like Pat Nevin to Scottish people. He was a flair player.

Claudia Reyna played in Scotland for Glasgow Rangers. He was versatile and a great team player.

OK, this is about NFL so I'll just list the others and finish up. Wegerle, McBride, Stewart, Beasley, Bocanegra and Wynalda. There may be new up-and-coming players but I don't know them.

News / 14 year old rape victim from Warsaw denied abortion! [348]

The doctor is duty bound to hold the 'utmost respect for human life'. It appears self evident that abortion isn't that as human DNA is human life, although it hasn't blossomed into a person from the blueprint just yet. No lawyer could really say that he has met that standard.

The only possible reason for many doctors not having had their licences revoked (according to taking the Hippocratic Oath) is that they have given due consideration to the rights of the mother. Sorry, GS, what you wrote on this point was utter chauvinistic garbage. How do her rights "end" when the zygote's begins? Please explain as this is an irrational and downright insulting position to take against a rape victim.

GS, let me tell you sth. The United Nations Convention on the Rights of Children (UNCRC) expressly states 'any human being under the age of 18' as a child. Grinning from ear to ear yet? Get this, you decided to stay with the pirates and terrorists by not ratifying it, LOL. Hahahahaha (I meant Somalia, gotta love those Mogadishans). Even Saudi Arabia, those Wahhabists, have signed it along with 192 other nations :) Stop spewing your verbal diarrhoea about rights when you won't even ratify an international treaty out of the interests of comity. America is the most advanced I heard, LOL. You are a joke, fella!

Would you accept that DNA isn't the complete blueprint, GS? Look at fingerprints, they are not determined according to DNA at conception. You just hand pick the physical traits which suit your agenda. What about twins, one person or two? You keep avoiding neocortical development as being at 25 weeks. It's a fact.

The crux of the matter is that of definitions. There needs to be sth inserted into the law to connect abortion with murder. '1.The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice'. This is the US position. Human, that's a start for you. Abortion is lawful in the States. Some work to do there, buddy :) A critical examination needs to be made of all material factors but the preference, in standard abortion cases, should be that the unborn child should be allowed to come to fruition and also the encouraging of a responsible approach on the part of women to get a pregnancy check if they are in any doubt. The man should pay for this if they had unprotected sex ;) ;) ;) ;)

Rape is a different ballgame entirely.

OH, religioustolerance.org/transsexu3.htm, this is relevant to this thread and the one on homosexuality.

'Commenting on the lives of transsexuals, Prof. Harley said:

"It's a very tough condition. These people are often on the margins of society, are ostracised, poor, unemployed. It's not something you would want to choose yet still some people think it's a choice when it's more likely transsexuals are born like that." 6'

Gays don't want to choose to be that way. My friend was from a conservative background and it took him YEARS to tell his parents. They never twigged. He had no gay influences around him and wasn't exposed to any of the behavioural aspects that many gays are.

Anyway, your DNA at conception seems to fall a little short. Most people would automactically assume that fingerprints would be part of that DNA. Just look at forensics, there is an inextricable correlation. Why, then, is it not there at conception?

Life / IS THERE NFL PROGRAMS IN POLAND [60]

Look at that thread again, Scrappy. I didn't say that the Zionists were actually responsible for 9/11.

Either discuss NFL or stop trolling. I can promise you that I won't Google or go to wiki. I'm not a big one for stats but I know many players and games from 20 years ago.

Love / Personal issues with two women, they want to be my friend - a Polish thing? [49]

At your discretion, lad, at your discretion :)

Life / IS THERE NFL PROGRAMS IN POLAND [60]

I watched the Dome Patrol a lot and can swear, hand on heart, that I didn't wiki that at all. Their kicker was awesome too, Morten Andersen. Sounds Danish ;0 :)

I was a big follower of the NFL and loved the AFC Vs NFC. The Buffalo Bills really flew the flag well for the AFC.

Thurman Thomas was one of the best but I prefer Emmitt Smith and Barry Sanders. Barry was probably the best to watch and really helped the Detriot Lions out.

Love / Personal issues with two women, they want to be my friend - a Polish thing? [49]

Don't destroy your heart? Hmm...the jury is out on that one.

Life / IS THERE NFL PROGRAMS IN POLAND [60]

How about the Dome Patrol? The New Orleans Saints were mean mofos. They had a cracking defence.

The Denver Broncos have had some great defensive performances, i.e 1998 and 2006. This is often overlooked, esp in 1998 when Elway and Sharpe were on fire. It's my old man's favourite team due to their offensive capabilities, largely through Johnny boy. This overshadows the stalwart defence.

Love / Personal issues with two women, they want to be my friend - a Polish thing? [49]

Put more simply, Arien, they were maybe watching a porno (who knows, right?) and felt horny. Then the calls happen but it's a passing phase. Permanence is key and there are too many players on this or that chemical these days.

Life / IS THERE NFL PROGRAMS IN POLAND [60]

No, that's a good point ;) ;)

We also has Stecker (Tampa Bay Buccaneers), Clint Stoerner of the Cowboys and Driesbach of the Lions. Not to mention an understudy of Brett Favre, Craig Nall.

Sledz, that was the era which I followed. I've heard about Butkus and Sayers but never saw them play as I am too young ;) ;)

American Football has taken off here but not in such a big way. It has been played mainly for the last 15 years.

What's Scrappy's team I wonder?

Life / IS THERE NFL PROGRAMS IN POLAND [60]

You know nothing about them I see. If you did, you would have told me that they finished in Oct 2004.

Couldn't make it? Did they even try?

We had Dave Barr (49ers) and Spence Fisher of the Dolphins.

Love / Personal issues with two women, they want to be my friend - a Polish thing? [49]

They appear to be leaving the door open for sth more, wheeling out their more natural emotions when felt the most but unprepared to follow through on those. They will keep you within arms length and will reel you in only if it's good for them.

Be careful :)

Life / IS THERE NFL PROGRAMS IN POLAND [60]

Want a team? What, are you dumb? We have the Scottish Claymores. The English team recently thrashed the newly-crowned Polish champions (coached by my American buddy), the Silesia Miners 42-2.

ifaf.info/articles/view/261/Lw==

The Bears, sledz? Some top players throughout their history. My favourite has to be Walter Payton. The Fridge was funny. He had a boxing match with Bob Sapp and got pasted. Mike Ditka, wow, what a firebrand. That guy would put the fire back into Rhine Fire (German team).

News / 14 year old rape victim from Warsaw denied abortion! [348]

youtube.com/watch?v=Snu7Z93UDDI, a nice little account from this Irishman. Personhood is again far from clear for the reasons he states.

youtube.com/watch?v=RLTTdjz8ft0, this sums it up that you come up short, GS. A beautiful synopsis of the salient points and really pounds you into the ground at 3.10 onwards.

Happy Conception Day, chump ;) ;)

youtube.com/watch?v=GXSx9iFKHrc&feature=related, I've found you at last, GS. Is it really you? Nothing but slanderous and no attempt at debunking/a refutation. A layman fool.

ariarmstrong.com/2009/07/personhood-returns-for-2010.html, herein lies the crux of the matter. It kills the arguments of pro-lifers.

GS, a potential person is not a person so murder doesn't come into play. I agree fully that we should guide the zygote through to natural birth but you don't meet the definition of person, sorry.

You are stamping your feet but what you really need to do is to get the law changed so that potential persons are covered. Otherwise, abortion will continue unabated. This is the biological process, through different phases to birth and we need to facilitate this as best we can. Our biggest problem is with definitions. Abortion is not murder but it is unwarranted killing in many cases. We must protect against this so that many potential babies aren't lost.

However, rape was never meant to be. Please point me to ANY source which says that woman should be raped. Maybe radical Islam but I'm not sure.

youtube.com/watch?v=TkjqvIzTbCQ, here's evidence of loose definitional use designed to sensationalise as you are doing, GS. Meat is murder.

The Smiths were an immense group but animals are not people and thus cannot be murdered. However, many still need protection in my eyes. I am for animal rights but we need to make sure that we meet the definitions.

News / 14 year old rape victim from Warsaw denied abortion! [348]

Gunslinger, there is a maxim called ignorantia iura neminem excusat, ignorance of the law excuses no-one. Would you apply God's Law in this bracket or do you apply God's Law only to practising Christians? Many people are taught that revenge is sweet and should be exacted. Do 2 wrongs make a right?

You keep saying it's homo sapiens which is right. However, I don't see the reference to it as a person as we have already seen that, not only is it not a person at conception, but it isn't in the zygotic stage either. In the anatomical sense, it starts the first significant steps.

I bet the Geneva Declaration sticks in your craw.

Heartbeat at 3 weeks. What about persons who have passed out as a result of an accident? Do they cease to be a person before they are resuscitated? Regular brainwaves? Are you paying attention at all, 9 weeks lad, 9 weeks.

OK, personhood begins at conception, does it? Well, pull a 2-week old 'child/person' out of the vagina and what kind of 'person' do you have? Does it have instinct, thinking, feelings+emotions (tears etc, fear and recognition of mother), lungs, liver, REM, dreams, learning, communication and a noticeably developing brain? A newborn has these features.

You are not in tow with modern revisionist approaches, Gunslinger.

Determined sex? How about hermaphrodites?

Wrong actions? Wrong according to the law?

Are you saying that most mothers don't understand high school Biology, GS? They do and are more aware of abortion issues than you think.

Your arguments for personhood are lame, GS.

GS, would you pull a foetus out of a dog and give it to your nephew/niece as a puppy? Leads/leashes are for puppies and not foetuses. Have you bought any prams/strollers for your embryo 'person?'.