News / Poland Remembers start of WW2 [200]


You had questions in your post so I answered the why.

After the wars end Poland was imo the nation that got the worst of it all. So this is a much bigger deal in Poland, then anywhere else. It hits a little closer to home when you have relatives in your family who were murdered during this time, and the stories you hear about it from other relatives, on top of the things you read.

It really shocks me that the typical person seems to have a hard time wrapping their minds around something seemingly so simple.

The war in Poland was different then the war in any other nation. It wasnt a strategic military war. It was a war of murder, and genocide.

When the Jews keep bringing up the holocaust nobody says a word, but the second a Pole opens, or complains about the turn of events during and after the war, we are labeled crying and moaning Polaks. Sick of the BS double standards.

News / Poland Remembers start of WW2 [200]


Because in the case of the French, the fact that they did not put up much of a fight is true. I don't believe that French being cowards is the reason for their defeat. But it is known the French did not do the best job of trying to defend their nation. Not only that, but in the end, France came out just fine, and was an independant European nation. There was no genocide, and mass murder in France. Paris was not treated as if the war was not over. People went about life in an ordinary fashion. Compare Warsaw, and Paris during the war to one another, and see the changed. You cannot comapre the two nations to one another under occupation of the Germans. The Polish culture was to be erased from the minds of the people and the earth. Our most intelligent professors and leaders were murdered, our books and arts were torched, our streets renamed to German names, our citizens murdered for being Polish. Poland was to become more room for the "Aryan race" to settle after the war. This was Hitlers image, to rid the world of the Poles. None of these events took place in Paris for example on a daily basis.

In the case of Poland, we are constantly thrown false accusations, and injustices that arent true in our face in regards to WWII. Why should we accept, and ignore being accused of doing nothing in WWII, of fighting tanks with calvary, of our airforce being destroyed on the ground without even taking off, when it is all FALSE, and like I said an injustice to anybody who fought for those 6 years.

Lets see how you would all feel about having your home country ravaged, with attempts to have it erased off the face of the earth, along with it's culture, and people. With 3 million of your citizens being murdered for being British or w.e country, including your soon to be wife. Fighting in foreign lands, under the command of foreign armies and governments, then when you finally "won" you don't even have a home, or maybe family to go back to because it was destroyed, or your family was murdered. But you decide to go back anyways, and instead of being honored as a veteran, and wartime hero, you are accused of being an enemy of the state, and a few days later you get arrested, and get sent off to Stalins Siberian gulags to die, because your "allies" didnt want to anger uncle Joe with the thought of an independant England(insert country of origin here). Hell of a victory..

News / Poland Remembers start of WW2 [200]


I agree, and this is what I actually posted yesterday on the first page in reply to that flier somebody posted.

But if we Poles never talk about it, and never try to correct or inform others about it, who will? It will go forgotten, and will become a manipulation of history.. which it already has in many countries. No other nation is helping our cause, so we must try and spread the truth on our own, and unfortunently this is what it makes it look like. Half the time Allied nations are given credit for Polish achievements during the war, making those nations look great, but making ours look poor.

I for one will not sit quietly while some jackass somewhere goes on laughing about Polish calvary charging German tanks (the most popular one), or some other popular WWII era propaganda.

Just like Piorun said... put your own countries in Polands place, and see how you would feel about it.

After the war, all of the allied countries had something to cheer about. The war ending, back to normal life, and freedom, back to your families. This was not the case for Poles. They never had a real reason to celebrate, until 1989.

News / Poland Remembers start of WW2 [200]


I believe Poland is moving on. But I also see it being excluded from many history lessons outside of its own borders. It's a shame that many people when they hear Poland and WWII, they think about Poland being steamrolled in 1 months time by the Germans, and charging German tanks with calvary (which is not true).

I think and believe this popular thinking is a huge injustice to the hundreds of thousands of Poles who fought on all the wars fronts from day 1, and the millions of Poles killed and murdered in Poland during these times. After being the longest fighting and one of the hardest fighting nations for the wars duration, the nation at least deserves some respect, and recognition, since it received nothing else by the wars end.

The Battle of Britain; Monte Casino; Falaise Gap, Normandy; Warsaw Uprising, to name a few.

News / Poland Remembers start of WW2 [200]

jonni


No. The parade excluded all Polish Armed forces who served as one of the largest Allied contingents during WWII in Europe.

The famed 303rd squadron, an all Polish squadron with huge success during the Battle of Britain was the only Polish unit invited, but they turned down the invitation since it was not extended to all Polish service men.

News / Poland Remembers start of WW2 [200]

Bratwurst Boy

Has more to do strictly with being more self-sufficient, then the country presently is, also try to assert its own interest as well, opposed to only appeasing its neighbors.

I'm not saying Poland should break away from the EU.

News / Poland Remembers start of WW2 [200]

tornado2007


It's not only and all about the UK. The French bordered Germany and was considered a force during that time. They did nothing. Even putting the beginning of the war aside, you go to the end of the war. That is where the real betrayal happened.

As far as the French goes the French no doubt suffered from low morale. While war was raging within the country the pubs and night clubs in France were apparently full of life, with people partying as if there was no war going on. I remember reading books and reading the reactions of Polish soldiers who made their way out of Poland after it's occupation to continue fighting in France, and they were shocked by the apathy of the French towards the Germans invading their homeland... obviously not all of them. But in general.


I am no military expert, but from what I imagine bombing raids focus on factories, oil depots, even populations to frighten them, and lower morale. Usually on cities to give the enemy at least less to work with. With German troops moving about daily, by the time the bombers would arrive on sight they would have to go searching for their targets that are moving about in Poland, on top of that risking killing innocent Polish civilians, and possibly friendly fire, due to the lack of accurate reports on locations they are to bomb. The only effective bombing would be on targets within German mainland. Precision bombing did not necessarily exist back then yet.


The allied forces were a force enough to feel free enough to control the fate of soverign nations. Read Munich.. and Czechoslovakia. And make promises to come to the aid of their ally Poland should Germany attack. Hell, even during the BoB by the time the British let Polish pilots into the sky they were running low on their own, and finally had no choice but to put them to battle. Poland has plenty reason to be cold and bitter towards her "allies" on this topic, I don't think the reactions from Poles on this topic should surprise anybody who knows how events unfolded during this time. They are fully justified.

Regardless of the reason, it simply shows why Poland is hesitant to trust anybody even in todays time. The lessons from WWII are well learned I would imagine, and hope.

It is important to look back. Not only to remember the loss of life, but also with the thought that history repeats itself. And there is much to be learned by human actions in the past. Valuble lessons, on mistakes that shouldnt be made again. We study history for this reason, so we can learn off the mistakes of others, instead of making them and finding out the hard way for ourselves.

News / Poland Remembers start of WW2 [200]


As have I on different forums. The amount of time that it would take for Warsaw to fall was unknown at the time of the attack. It is easier to say now there was not enough time, as we look back and see how things unfolded. The idea I believe was an attack on the German mainland, opening another front, and relieving Poland in that way, not direct bomber attacks on Poland.. as those would be ineffective anyways due to the armies mobility.

But regardless of how..even after Poland fell to the Germans, nothing was done. Then France was attacked. The French are in the same boat, and they bordered Germany. There is a reason they called it the "Phony war". These were promises from France and England if Germany was to attack Poland, they were broken. England and France were our allies, and they never showed up. The entire Western German border was practically wide open, as Hitler concentrated all his forces on Poland. He gambled that France and England would not come to Polands aid, and he was right on the money. Later German generals went to say that they thought the idea was suicide. They practically had no forces between France to Berlin, guarding the German border.

Now the main betrayal happened to Stalin.. after the war. The conference in Tehran and Yalta.

I don't blame individuals in todays world, but facts are facts. I have nothing against the English, French, or even Germans at this point. I just don't like when people won't admit to what is.


It is affecting life directly in Poland not in a mental sense, but in a real day to day life. The reason we just had mass migration to the UK, and other EU countries, prior to that the U.S, and a 1.23 fertility rate is owed all to financial reasons. The countries economy while growing, and improving, as well as the unemployment rate, but it is not yet satisfactory. These are the after affects of 40 years of communist rule. Communist rule that was a direct result of our allies allowing Stalin to claim Poland as his own. Just look west of the iron curtain to do a quick compare and contrast.

I can't speak for everybody, but it's not that I like to dwell in the past and feel sorry for myself and my country. It has to do sometimes with the things people say, that arent justified, or fair.


I agree with you. But it is not about feeling of being the victims, but about facts. Facts that are sometimes ignored, or sometimes twisted around. 40 years of communist rule inside of Poland and the suppression of Polands achievements in the media, and schools surely contribute to this.

With all this typing all I am saying is that Poland got shafted and betrayed by her allies. FACT.

Poland was the 4th largest army in Europe after the Soviet Union, the UK and the US..

Hell, we werent even allowed to march in the victory parade in London after the war... now on top of everything that happened, if that isnt a slap in the face, I don't know what is..


I didnt mean to insult you. I tend to get excited about these topics as I have a big interest in WWII and the things that happened during this time, especially in Poland, so I am a bit more "enthusiastic" I guess then the average person. Mostly people don't agree with me, but then again most of these conversation are with people from the UK, or the US.. so I understand them trying to justify their countries actions, even though we do not agree.

News / Poland Remembers start of WW2 [200]

ShelleyS

McCoy is refering to Poland being betrayed by Britain and it's "allies" at the beginning, and end of the war.

polishcanuck

Likely the effect of those fliers will only anger the populations in the Western nations about Poland trying to gather all the fame and glory for itself, when in reality, it is only trying to take credit for what credit is due.

Similar to the situation towards the end of the war. The once appreciated, respected, and adored Polish forces fighting alongside the British in the RAF, as well as on the ground, and on the Eastern front, became the problem children of the Allies, when they refused to accept Stalins (abominable) conditions as to the fate of Poland after the war.

How dare those pesky, resilliant, hard-headed, selfish Poles try to stand up for their people, nation, and independance from a tyranical bandit, who not long ago wanted to wipe the nation off the face of the earth.

They werent even allowed to participate in the victory parade in London at wars end.

And people wonder why we are bitter. Their sentiments have changed littler after all this time, and therefore so have the Poles.

News / Poland Remembers start of WW2 [200]

tornado2007

It's people like you, with your mentality why anger continues to erupt from Poles when these topics come up.

"they cry and cry and cry about it. Yes they were the victims etc etc but come in we are in 2009, lets move on while at the same time remember the fallen."

Where are you from?

Sounds like typical rhetoric from our "western allies" who sold us, and stabbed us in the back at the beginning, and end of the war. Of course you would be ashamed of the actions of your governments during this period, and what better way to try and down play and ignore it all, when you can just accuse Poles for "crying" about it.

Perhaps it may not occur to you that these are people, and actual events we are talking about, events that had consequences, consequences that are still being dealt with, and a reality within Poland. 2009 or not, the turn of events during that period has a direct effect on life in Poland today, including the memories of the loss of loved ones who perished during and after the war.

And what better way to remember the start of WWII then comments like "stop crying about and move on, boo hoo, poor Poland"

Maybe you should pick up a history book and read a little on Poland and its role during WWII, and how we were thanked for it all at the end, perhaps you would gain a better understanding of the price that was paid for.... well .. nothing.

History / US snubs Poland over WW II ceremony? [75]

shopgirl

And how many black people are there in Poland that there to be black people in advertisements?