News / Germans file WWII claims against Poland [198]


Nope, you've come to us - looks like we've got you.

Surrender, and sign the Act of Capitulation.:)

News / Germans file WWII claims against Poland [198]

Witek, oh, so [b]this[b] is what "a German" looks like.
Gorgeous hunk of manhood - LOL

News / Germans file WWII claims against Poland [198]

[quote=a German] should somebody have missed me...

Nope , can't say that I have. Now bugger off, there's a love.

News / Germans file WWII claims against Poland [198]


It's almost impossible to oust them once their in.

Say they did- would you like to visit a museum to see what a Pole looked like?

News / Germans file WWII claims against Poland [198]


Matyjasz, let her have her whinge. That witch Helena Wolinska-Brus leaves Steinbach for dead, prosecuting naszych bochaterow Armii Krajowej to death. The bigger problem is there's no need to claim through any court- since both are in the EU, Germans can simply buy the land , they can afford it.

News / Germans file WWII claims against Poland [198]

[quote=Patrycja19] so bitter the germans are?? again, I ask why?

Patrycja, the info on the poll was taken from another website, stating the following reasons - millions of Polish immigrants in Germany were apparently from a lower social strata, thus damaging Poland's reputation. A fellow German joined in, describing Poles, amongst these Polish nurses as semi- skilled and dim witted - he really should tell that to my patients...It was also based on the uneasy relations of Poland/ Germany under Kaczynski's administration.

The Germans are bitter because what they considered "their" lands, caly Slask i Pomorze was relegated to the Poles by Stalin ( they have "forgotten" this was Polish land they stole 500-600 years ago..) They want to claim the land back? Go harrass the Russians- I'm sure Putin will be as sympathetic to their claim as Kaczynski is.

They're still sore over Dresden too and many who lived there through the Allied bombings consider themselves victims ( not to worry about Warszawa though ).

History / Would Poles prefer that Nazi/Germany to stay in power instead of USSR? [55]

It's also hypothetical and up for discussion.

History / Would Poles prefer that Nazi/Germany to stay in power instead of USSR? [55]

Why don't you guys just answer the question!
Since there is no choice - Germany.

News / Germans file WWII claims against Poland [198]


Who wants to start a war over it??

News / Germans file WWII claims against Poland [198]


The problem was that in the beginning he presented himself as such- even Poles in this time (not those in the know eg Enigma) assumed he was good. It was common knowledge he organised the sports/scout camps for the youngsters, uniforms. He got Germany out of the economic hole, gave them back a sense of pride, etc.

MFW, German polling agency asked 1235 adult Germans to give their opinion on their least liked country- Poland topped the list with 23% of this opinion.
Last year, PBS,Polish polling agency asked Germans what they thought of Poland - 43% had negative feelings and 23% having positive.

So "a German" is not the only one - but he came to a Polish forum, attempted to create angst and was dealt with, in the same manner he afforded us.

History / Katyn- forgiven and forgotten? [111]

Just interested to know in Your opinion on them e.g. agree or not. I'm open for discussion esp desertion of Smygly-Rydz, Berling(a candidate for Katyn?), CIC Sikorski(there's a few candidates for his death.)

Anielka.

[b]Update[b]

1943 German report gave 4,143 as the number actually exhumed from the 7 graves.
The 8th grave was only opened not exhumed. It was quite a lot smaller than the other 7 and found some distance away from the other 7. Est. of numbers for this grave vary from about 200 up.

The highest number for the graves at the time was usually thought by people other than the Soviets and Nazis to be 4,800. "Death in the Forest"by JK Zawody, pg 94-5, gives some reasoning for these figures.

A 1956 memo from KGB chief Alexander Shelepin to 1st Secretary Nikita Kruschev confirmed 21,257 of these killings at the following sites;

Katyn- 4,421.
Starobielsk camp- 3,820.
Ostashkov camp- 6,311.
other places of detention- 7,305.

This is generally accepted now as being genuine and a good estimate of the number of dead at the 3 main sites.
The Kharkov and the Mednoje Poles are mainly in the known graves, but there are many missing from the graves so far exhumed at Mednoje and there is nothing much known about where the dead of Katyn are buried now- excluding those in the Cemetery.

History / Katyn- forgiven and forgotten? [111]


Were you addressing me- if so , I don't.

[quote=ArturSzastak] I only used your post because I'm lazy and didn't want to find his post) [/quote

Hi, have You read my other posts?

History / Katyn- forgiven and forgotten? [111]


Were you addressing me- if so , I don't.

News / Germans file WWII claims against Poland [198]


You started 2 World Wars and got your asses kicked - twice. Who's stupid now?

Study / Comparing Educational Standards in Poland vs other countries [88]


My idea was to bring the relative to us and do the Medicine in Australia. I contacted a couple of Uni's- given that they consider her a post grad eg finished radiography they sliced off 2 years, leaving 4 years.Pre requiste:an interview with the head of medical faculty via phone/computer.No exam.Problem:classified her as International student, cost- $155,000AU.

An Aust. could do same @a third of above cost.Regards, Anielka.

Study / Comparing Educational Standards in Poland vs other countries [88]

Hi, a relative sat exam for Medicine(in Poland)- missed out by 2 points, resat- missed out by 1 point.Took radiography instead(NOT the "dream")- I wonder if other countries are as strict in their standards?

History / Solidarnosc (Two Decembers) [11]

Yes, the words catch one in the throat.And yes there is another side to the coin to be considered: husband conscripted and served during Martial Law, so thanks to the Army,General Jaruzelski, the Polish Govt. and Martial Law- with Russian tanks standing on the Polish border ready to roll- thus avoiding another Communist bloodbath, remember Hungary?

Younger Poles do remember: their father obtaining names to start a Union amongst Firefighters, then taken in the middle of the night, their mother searching the jails, families never knowing if/when Tata is coming back, where he is, is he alive, hurt, they just don't talk about it.

History / Katyn- forgiven and forgotten? [111]


We backed the wrong side- no other country offered any hope of freedom to partioned Poland. Yes, we believed in promises of opportunitists/ politicians/statesmen-call them what you will, and fought willingly under Bonaparte for the hope of freedom-at least Bonaparte was defeated with the Poles- unlike others, who also made empty promises ,which we believed- but they were the victors, with the Poles essentially fighting for them, then selling us out-ring a bell?

Why, it's just not cricket.
By the way, what past indiscretions did we pay for?
We paid the price for the hope of freedom.

History / Katyn- forgiven and forgotten? [111]


Factor in that Poland had 20 years to forge a new nation- after being partitioned for 123 years, before being invaded by 2 much greater powers- so how could Katyn-1 incident have weakened it to such an extent?


I'm not sure what indiscretions you mean.
In backing the wrong side, do you mean our Allies?

History / Did Ukraine really "steal" Polish land? [302]

Czesc, Pan Huegel- and Thank-You:) :)
Anielka

History / Did Ukraine really "steal" Polish land? [302]


:Point taken
Po


Apolgies for taking your time.


Dear Kochana-Babcia, I assume You have read all my posts: from the bickering over Lwow, the atrocities of WW2, kissing Communists feet over many years in order for the USSR in order to support them- these observations were examined from an Historical point of view- not as a personal dislike for the Ukrainians-further their newest proposition to the Poles re the pipeline, along with clamoring to enter the EU is met with caution - for obvious reasons. Regards.


Since 1989: The strategic objectiveof Polish policy was membership into the EU.
In 1990:They filed an application to begin negotiations with Europa Communities.The Poles were aware of the required high standards of the EU and began preparing, rectifying the problems.

In 1994: the Agreement came into effect, so on 1st May 2004, they were smoothly accepted into the EU, having had in effect 10 years to prepare.


1/ Fruit: Poland in 2003 was the largest producer of apples, 60% were processed into concentrate, the rest exported. Same with strawberries,cherries,raspberries, etc.
2/ Veg, main export were potatoes, beetroot, sugarbeet.
3/ Rye, barley, oats another main export.
4/ In 2004, 53,000 tons of cheese were exported- 72% higher than in 2003, 33% of Edam ended up in Finland.
5/ The quality of beef, pig, and poultry rose sharply in demand, leading to an expansion of export. So , there was a rapid increase in exports of meat, milk, fruit & veg as on average they were 30% cheaper than those produced in the EU. The common market as well as foreign investment generates growth.

6/ Heavy industry.Copper mines producing non ferrous metals for export and ferrous( nickel, cobalt, iron) in moderation.
7/In 2005, the main producer of yachts(up to 7.5m) in Europa.
8/ Manufacturing and technical skills of cars, electronics and chemicals.
7/ Confectionary-exported.
8/ Polish beer-exported.
9/ Crystal and jewellry-exported.
10/ Education: amongst of the best educated societies in Europa, the Uni's and technical colleges producing students well acquainted with foreign languages, IT, Biotechnology, etc- the quality of Polish scientific and technical achievement reflected by the worlds largest corporations locating their R&D centres there.These graduates, with the research and entrepenerial skills can be harnessed to create new business focus on

EU market, Professionals can look abroad for jobs, prosperity.
11/ Young educated workers- in view of the aging EU societies and willing to work in different EU sectors are regarded as cheap labour.
12/ Tourism.
13/ The willingness to work closely with the other nations within the EU- despite differences.

History / Did Ukraine really "steal" Polish land? [302]


If You do not know the present political situation, perhaps You know Historical aspects between Ukraine and Poland that we could discuss.I see little evidence of either on your part

Your perception of my superior demure is disappointing. I approached this dicussion with Historical facts and knowledge: faced with this you sulked and terminated the discussion. Pity.

History / Did Ukraine really "steal" Polish land? [302]

qouote=miranda, Post #45 ]
, stating the obvious.[/quote]
You got me wrong- I am not being sarcastic towards You but I am stating the obvious- it doesn't cost much - time and inclination- for those interested eg public libraries( free)!


I assume You mean where I got info to back up my family's stories. Broadly speaking, I have read "Poland's Place in Europe General Sikorski and the Origin of the Oder-Niesse Line,1939-1943", "White Eagle, Red Star: The Polish Soviet War, 1919-1920", "An Army in Exile", "Rising' 44 The Battle for Warsaw", "The Murderers of Katyn", the Internet, "International Herald Tribune Europe" each address Ukraine in regards to Polska, I am sure there are other books which go deeper, I am too am interested in what You discover,Regards.

History / Did Ukraine really "steal" Polish land? [302]


Poland threw off Russian shackles, starting with Solidarnosc- to date they are now in the EU, others eg Russia, in conjunction with Ukraine refused to join.Poland is financially and economically better off than Ukraine eg Poland arranged for seaborne deliveries to help boost it's oil supply after Russia cut off deliveries via Druzhba pipeline. I doubt Ukraine would have finances - and this just 1 example.The EU's only terminal capabable of pumping seaborne crude shipments through the Druzhba pipeline is in Gdansk. Poles are ready to negotiate with Germany on this, but are stalling with the Ukranians on their proposition- perhaps because of Ukranian historical ties with Russia, perhaps because of the pro-Russian and pro-Western dissension in the Ukranian Govt. , the Govt. is perceived as less than trustworthy.


: As an Ukranian Patriot I assumed You would know,even on a basic level how your Govt. works, yet You are unable to answer my queries.

You are right about the rich natural resouces-as has been pointed out by the Ukranians to the Poles re the rich soil and my post#37- perhaps this a symbol of the beginning of negotiations in regards to conflict.

History / Did Ukraine really "steal" Polish land? [302]


I chose Wikipedia because is a neutral source over a Polish source as this could be construed as slanted in the Poles favour.
"read,read, and read" is what I have done- it's not that difficult if one has the inclination:books or Internet, both easily accessible.

"history is a bit different for every family, because some had more luck than others"- I have taken into account my own family eg Mother, Father, Grandparents,etc tragedy by listening to the stories/opinions then verifying - to date I cannot find contradictions.

History / Want to know more about Poles and Polish soldiers during WWII? [18]

I watched the film- in parts give a good if basic excerpts of Polish contribution to the Aliied effort in WW2. I hope though the footage of presumably Polish cavalry attacking German tanks is dismissed outright as fabrication-see my post 146 "Poland has paid 68 million pounds for helping UK in WW2" for clarification.

History / how many labour camps in siberia? [11]


A major problem is that the Communists either did not have or refuse to give up documents eg Katyn ,pertaining to names, locations,eg Kolyma,eg Siberian camps- unlike the meticulous German records- until these are produced people will continue to search for missing relatives- to no avail.

Norman Davies provides a thorough if overall broad view of events of Polish History- he is after all an Historian. I'm not sure if he could enough specific detail.

Thousands of camps, millions of people.
Matyjasz: "sad"-that's an understatement.....

History / how many labour camps in siberia? [11]

[


Because they were in the Siberian camps-I suggest a good book"An Army in Exile" by L.T-General W. Anders- the C.I.C. Polish Forces in the U.S.S.R.- it gives a very good explanation of how they are inextricably linked- it is a myth the labor camps were only for civilians/prisoners of war.

History / Did Ukraine really "steal" Polish land? [302]


As far as I know Lwow was a Polish city, on Polish soil until in @1945 when the Communists gave Lwow to the Ukranians, and Wilno to the Lithuanians. At this time Ukraine was in effect a state of USSR.


History is based on facts, although I understand in your heart You regard Lwow as Ukranian, Poles regard it as their own- based on History,Regards.

I think there is more underlying the point of whether Ukraine stole Polish land or whether Lwow is Polish or Ukranian- it is how we see each other, starting for example in WW2 Ukranians tied Polish children around the base of trees with barbed wire, inevitably dying, popularly known as a "garland"(ref Wikipedia)- under the auspices of the Communists, since then it is well known they have been hand in glove with USSR who have supported them economically, I cannot see how Ukraine grew stronger -they simply survived under this regime. Pro -Russian President of Ukraine at the time,Kuchma reversed the original plan of the pipelines- in 2004- thereby allowing Russian oil south to the Black Sea for export. In 2005 pro-Western President of Ukraine Yuschenko reverted to the original plan: now the Ukraine proposes : in conjunction with Polska that the pipeline running through Ukraine, from Odessa be extended to Plock- effectively bypassing USSR. From Plockit can be connected to an existing network, carrying it to Gdansk, thence to Western Europa.

So is this proposition the Ukraine hopes will get them into the EU? What else do they have to offer? What will be the repercussions from USSR- aside from cutting off their oil supplies in the middle of Winter.Poles paid the 23% hike- can the Ukranians?

History / Did Ukraine really "steal" Polish land? [302]


I can see no evidence of him living in the past- he's simply quoting history. I cannot find sources to contradict him but would appreciate any pointers to references from You Miranda.