News / English vs. Polish hostility [323]

Isthatu, it's impressive - you knowledge of WWII! Who are you, mate?
:)

News / English vs. Polish hostility [323]

re Please Please, don't reply with 'working Poles' i already said they are not the immigrants i am talking about :)

- Gotcha, mate. :)

News / English vs. Polish hostility [323]

re: why is it all about Poles

- Well, because it's a Polish forum and the thread is on the (alleged) Polish-English hostility. And I'm Polish who care for Poland and Poles first, just as you, it appears, care for Britan first.

re: had the heart of a lion and the balls of any man you care to name, he made appearances on the front line, traveled when under serious threat of being assassinated, walked through London during and after a bombing raid. Care to name it and he's done it. There was no better Allied leader :)

- It's hard to put it better. Agreed 100 %, mate.

News / English vs. Polish hostility [323]

Re: Churchill

- There is attached to him an allegation that he was behind General Sikorski's tragic death. This (crazy) theory, not backed by any serious evidence, was first suggested on a bigger scale by the Anglophobic, Polonophobic and Germanophile psychopath David Irnigv in his book 'Accident.'

News / English vs. Polish hostility [323]

Oki, tornado, so I understand that you also mean the Poles when you write:

'Of course all the information required on the application form would be the same standard ones as applying for a Visa/Work permit etc. When the papers have been sent to the UK there can be a proper background check completed with the full co-operation of the government of the applicants country. Therefore any criminal record, infectious diseases or any other history that may stop a successful application could be assessed.'

- Do you mean that there have been huge problems with Poles working in Britain as regards criminal records, infectious diseases and 'any other history'? If yes, then can you quote (briefly) say ten specific cases?

I don't know f you know this, but in 'sensitive' work felds, such as health care, the Polish workers go through all the checks, such as crimnal record check.

Now, if you really care for Britan do you realise that your three month checks would probably immensely increase the public spending on British bureaucracy, create epic organisational mess and perhaps cause lots of Brit businesses to go under? Do you know anything about the shortage of labour in Britan - a shortage which you cannot fill up with local labour? Are you sure you've thought hard enough about these matters, mate?

:)

re: on the whole mate the British do like the Polish :)

- I'm of the same opinion (that's my experience) , and really happy about it.
:)

re: I Do.

- I believe you, mate.
:)

News / English vs. Polish hostility [323]

re: I Think torny means.Those who come and sit on their asses whining about how crap it is here. And do nothing but bleed the country of rescources.

- I'm travelling, professionally so to speak, throughout Britain, and I must admit I have never met Polish people here answering the above description. Have you met such Polish folks, Firestorm? If yes, please let me know, I'm really curious. Thanks.

re: stop your insinuations now

- God forbid me from ever even thinking of doing that! I'm just referring to the content of your posts and conclusions one may draw from them.

PS re: God forbid me from ever even thinking of doing that!

- I mean: God forbid me from ever even thinking of insinuating anything to you.

I'm just curious and asking questions for the sake of clarification. Also, I like the English and really wish they like us.

News / English vs. Polish hostility [323]

re: He was voted out of office before the meeting. to decide the outcome

- That is true, although before it happened he had an important input that was favourable to Poland.

re: Dont forget.. We were also in debt to America. We are an island nation at the mercy of an unstoppable machine. America supplied us on a lend lease. ( We return or repay after the war )

- I don't forget that and I of course agree with the above. Only ignorant folks can blame Britain for Yalta, etc.

News / English vs. Polish hostility [323]

re: I mean all Immigrants ... have to be put through the same checks

- Well, how would you wish to do that concerning Polish guest workers? How those 'checks' should look like in practice?

News / English vs. Polish hostility [323]

re: I was always taught that Churchill was overruled. Of course that could just be how he English History text books portrayed it.

- English history books portrayed it right, Szarlotka. Churchill could not do much - in fact he could not do anything - against Roosevelt's determination to allow the Russians to grab Poland. It's Roosevelt, and then Truman, not Churchill, who sold us to the Russians. And yet this monster in human shape has streets of his name in Poland. I hope he rots in hell. By the way, have you read Norman Davies' 'Europe at War 1939-1945'? I highly recommend it.

re: We need proper border control and Immigration rules/regulations that actually better Britain and not the rest of the EU. :)

- Does it follow Polish guest workers worsen Britain? If yes, then exactly how, tornado?

PS. Oh torynado, re: not the rest of the EU. :)

- The majority of foreigners in Brtain are from the Third World, from places like Africa and Asia. Are you also against 'betterng' their countries...?

News / English vs. Polish hostility [323]

re: was it not Churchill who sold Poland to Stalin?

- Wow, the thing-pretending -to-be-an-Englisman attempts to play expert not just on Poland under communism, English essay writing and Eurovision voting, but also on WWII Allied politics in regard to Poland? :)

News / English vs. Polish hostility [323]

re: They have their agenda, based mostly on the idea that pandering to the lowest common denominator will lead to greatest sales, greatest profit

- Not true - not entirely true. The media practically EVERYWHERE (not just in Britain) are predominantly political instruments, used to form and maintain given political ideas (perception) in the 'masses.'

Maybe some tabloids care mostly, or entirely, for profit, but, from my observation, they are politicised too.

re; Puzzler, Will you please inform us where did you live while in America?

Dear sledzie (herrings), I lived in Chicago.

News / English vs. Polish hostility [323]

Zgubiony, I hope you know that I haven't meant all Americans...

All the best to you. Everything's going to be all right with you, you'll see.

re: Some parts of the British media like to stir things up

- The mainstream media mainly perform the brainwashing function. That's how they have been designed and run for the benefit of certain groups.

But I've really got to run now. Damn it!

News / English vs. Polish hostility [323]

re: I am specifically blaming Poles

- How would I do such a thing?! I have never even remotely thought you would blame us! Osiol, you must understand that I don't identify media in England with the English people. We all should really become aware of that - the meda r not us!

All the best.

PS. You've made a good point about the title of this thread. Indeed - why the English alone? But it's material for another long discusson. We'll fight this stereotype too!

News / English vs. Polish hostility [323]

No, Osiolku, I read carefully anything you write. But I am also a really curious guy and I like to know what people really mean. That's why I ask many questions. And now, I've got to run, but I'll be back tomorrow (or rather later today already). Thank you for a good chat. All the best to you.

News / English vs. Polish hostility [323]

re: Stop being pathetic

- Why would I be 'pathetic'? Why are you so rude? I just asked you if you meant the Poles. What, are you scared to say yes or no? If they are a problem, then you perhaps can explan why, can't you? You know what you're talkng about, have clarity of thought, don't you?

re If you migrate, you are a migrant [etc.]

- All right, maybe, but why all this explanation? :)

Polish people have been depicted by the media in UK as an immigration problem. That's a fact.

News / English vs. Polish hostility [323]

re: You could understand the situation in Ireland being difficult

- Why would it be 'difficult'? Because of Poles?

Ranj, you are a liar.

News / English vs. Polish hostility [323]

re: You truly make me smile! Have a fantastic weekend!

- Does this mean you don't discuss any longer? Unable to defend your statements?
Yep, you definitely have made a fool of yourself, Ranj.

re: emigration

- The Poles aren't immigrants (nor emigrants). They are predominantly guest workers. This means the majority of them plan to return to Poland. The 'Polish immigration' scare has been spread by the media propagandists in order to divert British attention from the real, mostly Third World, immigraton to Britain. It appears the media establishment is in favour of this immigraton and fools the Brit public about it. The Poles are the scapegoats.

re: Some people like to play the victim.

- Namely who?

News / English vs. Polish hostility [323]

But, really, the difference between England and America as regards the attitude towards the Poles is that the English do not feel contempt towards us, but have respect for us (even when they complain about our coming to England). And then always - that's been my experience - whenever anybody complains about us, immediately another person or several people start defending us.

Yes, the English treat us like human beings. God bless them for that.

From what I hear, the Irish treat us very good too. God bless them!

News / English vs. Polish hostility [323]

re Nowadays, the tension seems to be more focused in the UK due to the influx of PL and dwindling jobs

- In reality, there's a much bigger 'influx' of non-Poles to UK, than Poles. It's enough to have a walk in any Brit city to see this. What dwindlng jobs? The (low-paid, low-status)jobs the Poles take are so numerous there's an acute shortage of labour for them. Folks often work 'long shifts' (minimum ca 12 hours) for this reason.

re: When a 'community' reaches a certain size, political parties or institutions find they need to 'reach out' to these communities...

- Well, there are Polish communities in America that are of a very considerable size, and yet no political parties or institutions 'reach out' to them strongly enough so that a Pole can have real prominence in them.

The institutional Polonophobia in America is epic. Take, for instance, the issue of visas for the Poles.

News / English vs. Polish hostility [323]

re: The visible minorities haven't been harassed (to the same degree anyway) in the UK for some time now..

- 'Visible minorities'? What the devil is that? Does it follow there are also invisible minorities? Which do you belong to, ahem, sage?

re: In Poland...? Well.... lets leave that for the moment..

- How about the harassment of Poles by your 'visible minorities'? Let's talk about it right now. For instance, how about 'Lord' Philips's slandering the Polish guest workers in one of the rags in UK?

re: Do not make the mistake of attributing their idiocy to their race, just as I will by not attributing yours to your "race"

- Do you mean you will make the mistake of attributing their idiocy to their race, and you will make it by not attributing my idiocy to my 'race'? Can you explain this profound thought of yours, oh sage?

So according to you I possess some idiocy? Please enlighten me in this matter.

Another racist-hypocrite, with his yap full of pseudo-human-rights slogans about 'visible minorities,' 'harassment', and the like?

By the way, isn't it interesting that scores of racists are active and even have well-paid jobs in the 'human rights' field?
:)

re: You would expect the Latin population, based on sheer numbers, to be more prominent

- Do you mean that the prominence of a population depends on its number alone?

News / English vs. Polish hostility [323]

Ranj, you wrote: 'The US I think falls under the category of "everywhere"' - Does it follow you admit there's prejudice towards Poles in the US?

Yes, I'm actually serious when I'm asking why you regard as 'ridiculous' my statement that Polonophobia in the US is thousandfold worse than in UK. So are you able to answer this?

re: Where in the statement that I made do I say that predjudice does not exist?

- Where do I say you said that 'prejudice does not exist'? Aren't you twisting my statement? - In my statement I used the expression 'the prejudice,' meaning the prejudice against Poles in the US. I didn't mention prejudice in the vague general sense that you seem to mean. So does the prejudice against Poles exist in the US, or not, Ranj?

re: "PROVE IT" [that Latinos have incomparably more rights, respect and prominence in US than the Poles - P.]

- Oh boy. For example, they are incomparably more numerous and prominent in American politics than Poles. American voters seem to be more willing to choose a Latino as their representative than a Pole. They and their countries of origin are represented incomparably more postively in the American media than Poles and Poland. Their history, culture and surnames aren't ridiculed, e.g. in 'ethnic' slurs. In numerous instances they, not the Poles, get certain (good) jobs. The attitude of an average American is thus far more respectful and positive towards a Latino than a Pole. I've had hundreds of experiences in this respect, in both US and Canada.

re: the US has more Mexicans coming here because of the location, just as the UK has more Polish people coming there

- That's the kind of 'thinking' that is typical of many Americans in regard to the issue. I've met (nasty) examples of it also on the internet, e.g. on the discussion site of The Scotsman, where participants from America compare - hatefully - Poles coming to work in UK to Mexicans sneaking into the US. Here you come - that's the category some (quite numerous) Americans classify us to. (I don't mean any disrespect to Mexicans here; I'm just talking about the American negative attitude towards them and us.) Did it ever occur to you and some of your compatriots, Ranj, that Poles coming to work in UK differ from Mexicans coming to US in that they don't sneak, but come legally...?

re: You said it yourself, you are a "victim".

- What is the 'it' I allegedly said myself? So am I a victim? Why?

re: Don't know if you realize it or not, but we are responsible for our own happiness in life......you can choose to play the victim and complain, or you can do sth with your life and make yourself happy.....:)

- And that's also the kind of delusional, divorced from political-economic reality, self-complacent, arrogant (and mortally boring) 'thinking' often encountered in America and Canada. - And it appears to me, Ranj, that by preaching to me condescendingly, as above, for a delusional reason, you're making a great fool of yourself. :)

re: I said that most likely it was his issue and the people he had come across that had sth against HIM and not an entire race......

- Well, perhaps you've got some sound evidence enabling you to babble as above. Do you? If so, what's the evidence, Ranj?
:)

News / Eurovision Dance Contest; the Polish band was quite good [21]

re: gave oink poo to the Ukra

- It's still oinking!
:)

History / Poland-Russia: never-ending story? [1341]

re: I read his books and I am finding them rather russophobic, it's enough!

- Really? Any specific examples of this alleged 'russophobia'?

re: I cant say that he is a lier

- Well, in this case he can only be truth-speaking.

Even a Russian admits that.

So what are you complaining about, Konstantin?

re: Thanks no!!! drink this bile and poison yourself !!!

- What 'bile' and 'poison'? Any specifc examples? Aren't you projecting on the Poles the Russian 'bile and poison' way of depicting Poland?

News / English vs. Polish hostility [323]

re: How do you know he's never seen a Yeti? ;)

- Do you believe you see things such as Yeti, Ranj? :)

re: There's predjudice everywhere

- It follows it's also in the US.

re: but for puzzler to say it's in the US thousandfold as opposed to England is just ridiculous......

- Specifically why? Do you always find statements of fact very funny, or just on occasion, Ranj? Would it have to do with your possible seeing things such as a Yeti?...

re: it's the UK that complains about Polish people coming over and taking jobs.....

- Do you mean the British government makes such complaints, or Brits as a nation? Please, explain what you actually understand by this sweeping generalisation.

re: it's only natural that Britain, which received the largest influx of migrants in the EU, would exhibit more hostility....

- So Britain has exhibited more hostility after all? Once again what, who do you mean by 'Britain'?

re: in fact, until I came to this forum, I had no idea people were so predjudiced against Poles!

- So? To paraphrase Firestorm, does it mean the prejudice doesn't exist?

re: Now had he said the US is much more predjudiced against Mexicans than England, then I would have agreed.....

- The Mexicans and other Latinos have incomparably more rights, respect and prominence in US than the Poles.

re: I see predjudice against Mexicans quite frequently, but that stands to reason due to geography.

- Do you mean prejudice against Mexicans is justified by the science of geography? How? ;)

re: Hmmm, did it ever cross your mind that maybe it's YOU people have a problem with and not a whole race of people?

- And what specific problem would I have? Please explain. Aren't you engaging in something many Americans engage frequently, i.e. blaming the victim? And is it I who make sweeping negative generalisations about whole groups of people, or you?

re: Very true......think about it!

- Why should I think about it? Shouldn't rather, say, those high on crack attempt to do that (if still able to)?
:)

News / English vs. Polish hostility [323]

re: Ya ok

- Oi, maybe you can see after all?
:)

News / English vs. Polish hostility [323]

re: I havent seen any prejudice here

- Well, you may e.g. read some of your own posts. But it's still not guaranteed you'll see. Some folks have eyes but just don't see.

News / English vs. Polish hostility [323]

re: Are you smoking crack tonight, Puzzler

- Are you (ahem, politely) judging me by your own example?

re: where do you get your info?

- From living in both countries.

And my perception isn't obscured from smoking crack.
:)

News / English vs. Polish hostility [323]

Hm, you exaggerate Joe. You should come to UK and see it all for yourself. You'll see that prejudice against Poles is thousandfold worse in US than in England.

It's a fact that there's prejudice against Poles - parhaps the result of competitive attitude (mentioned by Isthatu)? - among some non-English residents in the UK, including Thirld World people (Asians, incl. Arabs, Africans). Some of the bad cases of the prejudice, as known to me, involve a Latvian woman, a Slovak woman, and a Bangladeshi man.

Generally, Poles get along very well with the English people. As you rightly remark, Poles and Brits have much in common.

History / Poland-Russia: never-ending story? [1341]

re: actualy they prefere to join west, acording current focus [sic]

- Really? Facts seem to show they have a quite positive attitude towards Germany, which dates back to Nazi times. And, if I know politics, Germans may likely reward them for that, e.g. by accepting them into the EU.

re: what is more they are very postively attituded to Poles

- Really? How? By building UPA memorials, desecrating our cementaries?

re: ... according to the same focus, and my travels (Lwow is grate) [sic]

- I understand that the 'focus' doesn't mention the aforementioned things, and in your travels your own 'focus' was rather selective?

re: You know, you are quite simillar to ConstantineK ... or even worst ... ehhh no comment.

- Please prove I'm 'simillar' to Konstantin, or even worse. Can you?

re: I think that people like you exist in every country, and you need each other [...] ConstantineK needs Puzzer. You need each other to prove your silly theories of the world.

- What do you mean by 'people like you'? Why would you think I need Konstantin? Because I comment on his posts? You do exactly the same. Does it follow you need him and are one of the 'people like you'? So you assert I have some 'silly theories of the world'? Please enlighten me in this matter. What theories? Why would they be silly?

Hmmm, I wonder if you aren't one of the 'Poles' with Soviet education? An eager reader of the Gazeta Wyborcza and such?
:)

History / Poland-Russia: never-ending story? [1341]

re: N Davies [...] is English

- Actually, he is Welsh.

re: but we just want people to read neutral writter. Not German, not Russian, not Polish

- Well, I don't mind 'people' reading Polish historians.

re: Ask ukrainians what do they prefer, EU or union with Russia

- Actually, they seem to prefer 'union with Russia.' And that's very good - like creatures should stick together. Don't forget that at least half Ukraine's population are Russians.

re: All attempts of Poland to present yourself as bridge between Europe and Russia are ridiculous

- So Poland has ever made such attempts? What attempts, when?

Aren't you laughing at your own lame joke?

Ah, so that's what the KGB media talk into the Russkies - that those Polish nobodies dare to aspire to be the bridge between the Holy Matushka and Europe? And as your example shows the result is the Russkies puffing themselves up with hubris and contempt for the 'Palyaki,' right?

:))))))))))

re: Aa I wrote, this work[ Norman Davies's 'God's Playground. A history of Poland' - P.] represents only one, Polish point of view

- And what specifically do you mean by that? Give pertinent quotes. Do you mean that Davies lies? Prove it.

re: As I wrote he [Norman Davies - P.] has wife of polish origine!!!

- And what would this signify? Do you suggest that Davies lies in his books because his wife is Polish? Prove it.
:)

re: At present Russian nation has much higher education level than in poland, due to russian revolution.

- And how do you know that you Russians have allegedly 'much higher educaton level than in Poland'? From your KGB press?

So that's how the KGB tries to justify your 'revolution' - by repeating that the revolution gave the Russians superior education? :)

Hmmmm, did you know, for example, that Russians read Latin American literature in Polish translations, because translating it into Russian was forbidden in the USSR?

Actually, in spite of your supreme Soviet education, you seem to be incredibly ignorant, Konstantin.

But then again we Poles know what the Soviet education was really like, how mentally isolated it made sure to keep you.