Return PolishForums LIVE
  PolishForums Archive :
Archives - 2005-2009 / History  % width 35

Polish - Soviet Brotherhood in Arms.


Borrka 37 | 594  
27 Sep 2008 /  #1
The symbol of Polish-Russian relations - the Brotherhood in Arms Statue - was built in 1945 under NKVD-supervision.
The hangdog stance of the soldiers has inspired this monuments nickname - The Four Sleepers.
At the top of the monument, the figures are more dynamic, like immense versions of dramatically posed toy soldiers. One figure rushes forward holding a machine gun at waist height, another is charging with a leveled rifle and between them both the third solider holds his arm outstretched behind him, about to hurl a distinctive barrel shaped soviet grenade.



Ironically enough, all materials used for the monument had been prepared by Warsaw pre-ww2 mayor for construction of the father Skorupka statue - the legendary hero of 1920 victory over bolsheviks.

Moreover the suggestion that Russians liberated Polish capital sounds rather insulting to us living in Warsaw.
Everybody knows the Red Army was just watching with friendly patience how Germans and RONA troops (the Russian National Liberation Army) were burning the city and killing its innocent civiliians.

Today some politicians are campaigning to have it removed, even though a similar relocation of a memorial caused riots in Estonia early this year, and a bitter reaction from the Russian authorities.

No comments from me - I would like to hear your opinion.
Dekameron 1 | 146  
27 Sep 2008 /  #2
Russians were our enemies during WW 2, there was 'no' brotherhood in arms, our army fought by their side simply because the alternative was to starve in a labor camp somewhere in Syberia, it should definitely be removed.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
27 Sep 2008 /  #3
Yeah, years of oppression cannot be ignored. The only justification could be that it represents a symbol of hope. However, pie-in-the-sky notions are not worthy of statue status
southern 75 | 7,096  
27 Sep 2008 /  #4
I propose that a US soldier should be added to the monument.
Bartolome 2 | 1,085  
27 Sep 2008 /  #5
A Brit, a French and a Gurkha too !
southern 75 | 7,096  
27 Sep 2008 /  #6
a French

Yes,in his living room.
Dekameron 1 | 146  
27 Sep 2008 /  #7
Actually we could keep the sign "polish-soviet brotherhood in arms" but instead of the statue we could put a public toilet there, that would have a proper symbolic meaning :)
southern 75 | 7,096  
27 Sep 2008 /  #8
a public toilet there

The point is which brother pisses whom.
Dekameron 1 | 146  
27 Sep 2008 /  #9
We'd have to be brothers with the ruskis in the first place :)
jonni 16 | 2,485  
27 Sep 2008 /  #10
Rightly or wrongly, there were Poles and Russians who fought together, and still people alive whose loved ones are commemorated by the memorial. It should stay, even though it looks Soviet and tasteless.
Dekameron 1 | 146  
27 Sep 2008 /  #11
there were Poles and Russians who fought together

See above, Poles fought with Russians because they HAD to, that was the only way to escape out of the Gulag.
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389  
27 Sep 2008 /  #12
Hey, many Russians fought only because they would have been shot in the head or sent to Siberia, or their families starved by the Communists.
Dekameron 1 | 146  
27 Sep 2008 /  #13
Actually 'all' Russians fought because the only thing that waited for them if they lost was a gas chamber or serfdom in a labor camp.
Lukasz 49 | 1,746  
27 Sep 2008 /  #14
Some soldiers wanted to go back home some wanted to kill Germans some wanted to escape Guag.
southern 75 | 7,096  
27 Sep 2008 /  #15
Polish - Soviet Brotherhood

Soviet love.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
27 Sep 2008 /  #16
Crow is conspicuous by his absence. No Slava's, no Slavic Union addresses, nothing. Is he saving himself for yet another outburst?
Dekameron 1 | 146  
27 Sep 2008 /  #17
Is he saving himself for yet another outburst?

He might have found out he has german roots, for Crow that means suicide.
Filios1 8 | 1,336  
27 Sep 2008 /  #18
Czterej Pancerni i Pies is Soviet propaganda... but damn good propaganda.
I have all the episodes!
pawian 170 | 11,484  
27 Sep 2008 /  #19
No comments from me - I would like to hear your opinion.

Nazi Germans planned an annihilation of the Polish Jews community. They succeeded. 3 million Polish Jews perished.

Germans also planned the extermination of the Polish elite and inteligentsia. They partly fulfilled their plans. 1.7 - 2 million ethnic Poles were killed by Germans. Their further plans involved transfering 20 million Poles to Siberia, so that occupied Poland could be settled by German colonists. Fortunately, that wasn`t realised.

Soviet Russians at first cooperated with Nazi Germans. They invaded Poland and conducted extermination of Polish elites together with Nazi murderers.

Suddenly Russians fell out with Germans and Poles gained an ally. Suspicious, savage, barbarian, but still an ally. So, it happened that Russians liberated Poland and again the Polish language could be used freely. Polish schools could open. Polish flags could wave in the air. The Polish anthem could be sung without persecution.

It is true that Soviet Russians raped Polish women from 5 to 70 years old. It is true they stole things from poor Poles, especially watches. They arrested patriotic Poles from the underground and sent them to Gulag camps. Yet, they never thought of getting rid of the Polish nation as a whole like Nazis did. Though occupied by Soviet armies, Poland was reborn after German occupation which meant death for the Polish nation.

The monuments to Polish Soviet brotherhood in arms are still present in Poland and they seem to remain there for a long time....

Thank you for reading this post...:)
Filios1 8 | 1,336  
27 Sep 2008 /  #20
Leje na czerwonych...
z_darius 14 | 3,968  
27 Sep 2008 /  #21
Yet, they never thought of getting rid of the Polish nation as a whole like Nazis did.

But they did.
Sasha 2 | 1,083  
28 Sep 2008 /  #22
See above, Poles fought with Russians because they HAD to, that was the only way to escape out of the Gulag.

See above... Jonni said that there were Poles and Russians who fought together with no "Za Stalina!!!!!!!!!!!" feelings but with fraternal feelings.

Hey, many Russians fought only because they would have been shot in the head or sent to Siberia, or their families starved by the Communists

Correct, Joe.
Dekameron 1 | 146  
28 Sep 2008 /  #23
Ok lets rephrase it, about 200 thousand Poles fought together with Russians some might have fraternal feelings, the rest of the nation was trying to become independet from both Russia and Germany and being arrested by Russians the vast majority of Poles had no fraternal feelings whatsoever, Russia of WW 2 is being seen as barely better than 3rd Reich and from polish perspective it was so.

I repeat, there was no polish-soviet brotherhood in arms and such monuments are insulting to every polish soldier executed by NKVD.
Lukasz 49 | 1,746  
28 Sep 2008 /  #24
Smashing majority of Poles didn't want communism. The best prove is Polish Soviet war in 1920. In 1939 Soviets invaded Poland with Hitler Germany but in 1944 1945 smashing majority was happy to see defeated Germans. German occupation was nightmare. After "liberation" Poland was oppresed like all communist nations (Russia, Poland, Ukraine, east Germany etc.) In Polands case it wasn't result of revolution in Poland but rather Soviet influenece.

200 000 soldiers were marching against Germans for different reasons I mentioned beffore

I am not going to mention KatyƄ and other exmaples of brotherhood.
OP Borrka 37 | 594  
28 Sep 2008 /  #25
Just in order to call a spade a spade:
for many Polish families the Soviet 1939 aggression and later post-war brotherly help had by far worse consequences than 5 years of Nazi occupation.
Be aware of that.
OP Borrka 37 | 594  
28 Sep 2008 /  #27
Oh, you seem to know better than me, the war-time history of my family lol.
Lukasz 49 | 1,746  
28 Sep 2008 /  #28
Maybe for single families it was worst because some people who survived German occupation and had lost members of family after thw WWII it was worst but there was no plan to exterminate all Poles like Germans wanted to do.
OP Borrka 37 | 594  
28 Sep 2008 /  #29
Maybe for single families it was worst

2 millions Poles deported from Kresy make more than a "single family".
Not to mention the post-war red terror.
Lukasz 49 | 1,746  
28 Sep 2008 /  #30
Soviets didn't like Polish and wanted to make good commies form this nation. They expelled Polish form east but from the other hand made some space for Polish on west.

Germans wanted to exterminate all Polish.

Normal Soviet soldiers were victims of the same horrible regime as they wanted to impose on Poland. They have been fighting for the same reasons as Polsih soldiers on all fronts what is more if not their struggle there would be no Polish nation.

Archives - 2005-2009 / History / Polish - Soviet Brotherhood in Arms.Archived