@Lukasz
"and yes Serbs were conquered and had to serve ... and they were tradable good."
I am sorry to bring this old topic again. But I searched something on the net, and found this forum and topic. When I saw your post I had to register : ))
I am, what you can call, a proud Serb. Don't get me wrong, but I just had to react to “had to serve” and “tradable good.” Well, you might think that it just hurts too much, so I have to lie to myself about it..
But..
Facts:
1. Serbian people stud against the Turks on Kosovo field at 1389. Yes, they did suffer greatly because of that. Almost all of them were killed that day. Except for the one clan: clan of Đurađ Branković. Altough Serbian mythology claims it as an act of cowardship, the fact is that he saved at least some of the nobles and warriors. You can search for some facts about this battle, and you will find that one of the Serbian captains (Miloš Obilić) killed Turkish sultan (Murat) in this battle. Thus, the advance of Turks towards the rest of Europe has been stopped there. Fact.
2. Due to their (great) loses, Turks actually stopped there, and really came back with another great army only after some 4-5 years. Of course they found much, much weaker Serbian country, divided in to many clans and feuds. Many of these feuds became vassals. But many of them continued to fight against Turks only few years after. You might search for the “Order of the Dragon – Red Zmaja”, you will find there that a Serbian Despot Stefan Lazarević (son of Prince Lazar who led Serbs to Kosovo) was the first on the list of members and a knight of special order. You might find that there were battles after battle of Kosovo (i.e. battle of Despotovac), after which Serbia was, again, free. At least sporadically.
3. But, if you knew something about Serbian heritage, you would know this; most of the Serbs from that time fled to mountains of today’s Montenegro and Herzegovina (Crna Gora i Hercegovina). Montenegro (peace of land from where most of today’s Serbia population comes from) was the only peace of land never conquered throughout it’s complete history. Neither from Turks, nor Austrians. Another large group of Serbs were settled in Krajina, and was used to protect the borders of Austro-Hungaria (probably because they were cowards and suitable for tradable goods : ))
4. But, yes, soon enough came darks ages for Serbs. Especially for those who stayed in Old Serbia (Kosovo). For revenge, and due to their “peaceful acceptance of slavery”, Turks were particularly cruel in these lands. They have introduced many unthinkable atrocities on this peace of land (i.e. tamping rebels on wooden stakes – pretty awkward discipline measure for “tradable goods”). Also, as our children have been taken to become Janissaries. It was very often and common for mothers to cut their children fingers to keep them from being taken. Some of them, like muslims from Bosnia have accepted Islam to avoid it, and thus, such animosity between Serbs (that suffered greatly to preserve their names) and Bosnian muslims, who are pretty much descendants of the weak ones.
And still, there has been many, many rebels like Hajduks (Hajduci - rebels from within the occupied lands) and Uskoci: rebels that jumped (uskoki) from other territories to kill Turks and then going back to mountains or over the border (Krajina). At the end, Turks did establish taxes and administration, but every time they tried to do more, they had a lot of problems. And Serbs were all this time continuously eager for freedom, what they, eventually gained with weapons like cannons made out of cherry trees (yes, cherry trees - Austro-Hungary never wanted to give us weapons because it suited their political means to have a status quo in Serbia). The leader of the first uprisings was Karadjordje (honored by Napoleon himself).
5. Serbs are the only Slavic people that to this day have a custom called SLAVA. It is a custom, where every family (clan) has its own saint protector (my clan’s Slava is St. John). In fact it is something else. We, Serbs, use to say: As long as there is Slava, there is Serbdom. It actually doesn’t have to do much with Christianity. Slava, is actually what remains from ancient Slavic (SLAVA) paganism and polytheism. They were so stubborn, that even when introduced to Christianity, each clan took one of the Old Gods to be a patron of the whole clan (family) and continued honoring them thru ages. For example, St Ilija’s day (Sveti Ilija Gromovnik), is actually Perun (Gromovnik) himself. Slava is being honored by many rituals that have much more in common with the Old Religion, than with the “new one”. For example, Serbs, to this day, have an Oak tree in each and every ritual they do. We consider it as holy tree. (The main symbol of ancient Slavic cosmogonic ideas was the World Tree. Slavs imagined that all three realms are vertically situated on a gigantic oak tree that holds the whole Universe. ) Since my first steps, I have been taken to the hills to cut, and honor, an offset of an Oak tree. And my sons will do that as well : )
6. Serbs and Montenegrians are one of the very few European nations that, to this day, have a strong custom of Rodoslov. A custom, where complete family tree to centuries ago is known, and passed orally thru generation (I know mine very well) and where bravery is the first, and sometimes the only, quality that used to count in the years before capitalism and communism.
7. Check, if there was any time when Serbs fought on “the wrong side”. Do a bit of a research about Serbian suffering and Golgotha during past centuries. Make a research, and check how many Serbs died in WWI and WWII. Check did we ever chose slavery in our history?
Past few decades have been nothing but a pure manipulation of the complete South Slav population from the West. Although I strongly disagree with their politics in the past 100 years, I still consider Croats as brothers. And few decades just isn’t enough time to give proper historical analysis.
There have been many reasons to think whatever you think about Serbs. But, give this a thought: such a small nation so severely demonized by western media (CNN, BBC, etc.). Fought against fu##ing NATO!? Used to make an international law precedent (Kosovo). Why?
Because we have something built in our culture that makes us extremely appropriate for western (capitalist) manipulation and various political intrigues, more than others.
It is the very heritage, the myth, the memories of terrors we survived to preserve our honor and good name, the stubbornness, and knowledge of everything I described above, that makes us highly intolerant for claims like yours ; )
Thus, please my dear friend and brother, consider all this next time you say that Serbs ever were “trading goods.”
P.S.
I almost forgot: KOSOVO IS SERBIA!
@McCoy
SlavaSlovenimaS:
SlavaSlovenima
yo, crow, what do you need second account for?
: )) I am actually glad to hear that there are some people here that share my sentiment.
Sorry if it looks like troll. Just had to write those things. You might believe and respect it, or not. It is your choice. But it is my duty to write it and try to say what it really is. It might sound lame, but those are the facts my friend. And if it does sound like a fairy tail to you, to me it is just one more proof of the will and strength of my people. Srb Ja!
SlavaSlovenimaS:
I almost forgot: KOSOVO IS SERBIA!
of course it is
Well, as I said, I am quite new here. Thus, I'm not sure if this was sarcasm? If it was, then I'm sorry my friend. I have nothing more to say.
P.S.
Is it too much to ask if you are Polak? I'd just like to know where do you people stand when it comes to Serbs.
Slava Slovenima!
