Pope John Paul II tried to prevent that Polish politics batray Serbians?!

Crow 154 | 9607

1 Aug 2008 / #1

this staff is extremely interesting and valuable for understandings of important historical events and last days of Pope John Paul II. Judging by the article, we maybe can say that one of last missions of Pope John Paul II, first Slavic and Polish Pope, was to try to do something for Racowie.

I would remind you what i said in some earlier occations, that Vatican foreign policy was/is under strong German influence (having in mind that Vatican was manipulated by Germany when that country cut political dialogue in former Yugoslavia and pushed Yugoslavs in bloody Civil War). I still believe so but, if this article represent facts, we clearly see that head of Vatican - Pope John Paul II, tried to redirect Vatican`s foreign policy and to deflect from NATO (read German) war path. Pope did his best to prevent bombardement of Yugoslavia (Serbia) in 1999 and even to stop it. When John Paul II sow that he can`t stop NATO machinery, he at least wanted Poland out of it. Let His eternal soul rest in peace.

Even more, from article, we can learn that official Poland didn`t betray only Serbians and Polish `political tradition` regarding Balkan but, suggestions of Pope John Paul II himself. Is it possible (i say, yes it`s possible; its on the line of Jan Sobieski and Wladyslaw Warnenczyk, after all- on the line of Our Lord Jesus Christ) that Pope John Paul II tried to support Serbians but was succesfully (if?!) hijacked by NATO (German/Turkish plans for Balkan and NATO/USA as their tool) and by politicians of his own beloved Poland? If so, i must ask, again - Who rules Poland if even Pope John Paul II was hijacked???

Let`s investigate. Shell we...?

Eastern Europe After Kosovo

Splintered Unity: Polish Politics and the Crisis

Konstanty Gebert

law.nyu.edu/eecr/vol8num3/feature/splintered.html

fragments from article:

The timing could not have been better. The Belgrade agreement, which put an end to the war against Yugoslavia, was signed just two days before Pope John Paul II arrived in Poland. The Pope had been publicly, though indirectly, critical of the war, and the government must have feared that he might express his position again, from Polish soil, just as the government would be reiterating its support for the air campaign. Though there were some hiccups before the final deal was struck, a relieved Prime Minister Jerzy Buzek told former president Lech Walesa, just before the start of the Papal Mass: The NATO air raids on Yugoslavia were called off six hours ago. This is a good sign, especially with the Holy Father in Poland. Prayers were surely answered.

The credibility of NATO's critics was somewhat undermined in mid-May, when Ikonowicz and SierakowskaÑacting against the explicit instructions of their party undertook a fact-finding mission to Belgrade and the refugee camps in Macedonia, returning with a full condemnation of both the raids and their rationale. Ikonowicz reported that he had failed to find any eyewitnesses to Serb atrocities among Albanian refugees, while according to himÑrefugees said that they had fled not the Serb army but the KLA and NATO bombs. The two DLA MPs were criticized for falling prey to Serb propaganda and undermining Poland's credibility as a NATO ally.

Parliamentary debate over the initiative was scheduled for June 17, just after the planned conclusion of the Pope's visit. But the negotiated end of the war, on June 10, eliminated the need for it.

ShelleyS 14 | 2883

3 Aug 2008 / #2

Yawn........

Seconded.
_____________________________________________________________________
Actually Crow the Pope was dsgusted with the ethnic cleansing that Serbs carried out.

Acknowledging that the evidence he has received on the situation in Yugoslavia has caused him "profound distress," the Pope said he was "comforted" to know that Patriarch Alexei has gone to visit Patriarch Pvle of Belgrade, and the Serbian Church, a visit whose objective was to "announce the Easter message of peace and express Christian solidarity to all the victims of the persecutions and violence, which unfortunately have characterised this region for so long."

southern 73 | 7059

3 Aug 2008 / #3

to "announce the Easter message of peace and express Christian solidarity to all the victims of the persecutions and violence, which unfortunately have characterised this region for so long."

An ambiguous statement.If the victims of violence were considered the Serbs?Then the visit s normal.

to visit Patriarch Pvle of Belgrade, and the Serbian Church

My guess is that he would die to bless Arkhan's weapons but he could not do it officially.
Anyway the Vatikan showed much better attitude during this war than during the WW2 when it openly supported the ustashi.

ShelleyS 14 | 2883

3 Aug 2008 / #4

southern

Face facts, the pope did not condone or support Serbs, quite the oposite.

OP Crow 154 | 9607

3 Aug 2008 / #5

read this quotation in first paragraph of article...

Though there were some hiccups before the final deal was struck, a relieved Prime Minister Jerzy Buzek told former president Lech Walesa, just before the start of the Papal Mass: The NATO air raids on Yugoslavia were called off six hours ago. This is a good sign, especially with the Holy Father in Poland. Prayers were surely answered.

From this part of article and from whole story you can learn that pro-NATO Polish government was in panic because of arrival of Pope in Poland which has now become hostile country on Serbians. That kind of politics isn’t something what Pope approved. It was not on the line of Polish tradition. Polish government was too much cooperative with NATO over attacks on Serbians and even risked to confront Pope John Paul II (read- Polish public) who had great influence in Poland.

For sure, in that stage of Yugoslav crisis Pope was already informed that NATO and Croats/Bosnian Muslims/Albanians as their satellites collaborate with mujaheedines of Arab Islamic league to re-model strategical situation in the region and that Serbs resist to that process. So, Pope John Paul II obviously wanted to do something on his own, to by-pass German schemes on Balkan and to support Racowie.

In other words, if Pope John Paul II wasn`t ready to support expansion of German (NATO was just tool) sphere of influence on Balkan, we becoming aware which kind of people rule Poland back in that days and today. Those people are people loyal to German, not to Polish interests. Same way how they taken part in splitting in Serbia, those traitors in Polish leadership would tomorrow accept splitting of Poland itself.

See this part...

Nationalist Jan Lopuszanski, of a small Catholic right-wing group, made his warning even more explicit. If, today, NATO's putative right to be a judge of other nations and their governments and to enforce these decisions by way of violence is recognized, this right may tomorrow be directed against any nation in the world, Poland included, he warned. He apparently forgot, among other things, that Poland was now a NATO member.

Of course, words of Catholic represent in Polish parliament are on the line of Pope`s (Catholic circles in Poland) suggestions. So, he defend Serbians and criticize NATO. Note what he said among else `this right may tomorrow be directed against any nation in the world, Poland included,`. We can conclude that he point on official Polish politics as trecherous. Similar thing already happened in Slovakia. Governmant almost collapsed when tried to act against Serbs. On the pressure from parliament and Slovakian public, Slovak governmant stayed loyal to Serbians, no matter all NATO pressure. Slovakia managed to deflect from trechery but, in Poland traitors still rule, no matter that Polish public support Serbs.

Anyway the Vatikan showed much better attitude during this war than during the WW2 when it openly supported the ustashi.

sure, now one Pole was head of Vatican

Only good Christ know how John Paul II suffered encircled with German intrigues and still He managed to balance. On the scene was conflict of two concepts in approach to Catholicism. Catholicism for Germans always was tool for their imperialism/hegemonism/imperialism, while Poles being Slavs, were able to fully understand human side of Catholic learning.

Indeed, Poles are best what Catholicism have. That’s why I from long time ago taken stance among Serbs, that it must be allowed to Poland to solve our problems with Vatican and that Serbs need to count on Poles in decisive moments. After all, that is in tradition of our relationship throughout history.

Why Poland wouldn’t be Slavic window in Catholic world? Let representatives of Polish Catholics take part in teams for negotiations which Orthodox/Protestant Churches from Slavic countries sending to Vatican. Let Poles speak in the name of Orthodox/Protestant Slavs, with potential of whole Slavic world behind them. Imagine how such a development can increase Polish influence over German lobby in Vatican (in Catholic world, in general). Let Poland profit for being both- Slavic and Catholic. It`s all right, as long as all Slavs prosper and as long as Mother Slavija smile. All for Mother

wildrover 98 | 4430

3 Aug 2008 / #6

Who cares.....????

tornado2007 11 | 2270

3 Aug 2008 / #7

well i for one do not give a flying fcuk :)

Dice 15 | 452

3 Aug 2008 / #8

I don't give a crap neither.

tornado2007 11 | 2270

3 Aug 2008 / #9

Crow

i don't think i have ever been this rude to somebody on pf before but i think this is a must, Crow you are the most boring un interesting B*stard on the forum, you also have so much useless stuff to talk about that nobody else really cares for.

Maybe you need to go and find a forum where everybody has a fetish for history, i know everybody has a fetish and yours is history.

Thnx

T (Expecting a suspension)

espana 17 | 947

4 Aug 2008 / #10

Crow you are the most boring un interesting B*stard on the forum, you also have so much useless stuff to talk about that nobody else really cares for.

he was ok ones but is to much slavic ******** now.

wildrover 98 | 4430

4 Aug 2008 / #11

He should be on a Serb forum , where people might be interested in all this stuff.....I suspect that most here are not.....

ConstantineK 26 | 1298

4 Aug 2008 / #12

tornado2007: Crow you are the most boring un interesting B*stard on the forum, you also have so much useless stuff to talk about that nobody else really cares for.

he was ok ones but is to much slavic ******** now.

You want to make it too Spanish? Come on don't cherish any hope, your time had elapsed many centures ago. Nation of relaxed citizens go on your weakining in the perpetual siesta....

southern 73 | 7059

4 Aug 2008 / #13

I don't give a crap neither.

Who cares.....????

well i for one do not give a flying fcuk :)

Maybe you are interested in Patriarch Alexej opinion.Or is jewish opinion about war in Bosnia more interesting?

Kilkline 1 | 682

4 Aug 2008 / #14

You want to make it too Spanish? Come on don't cherish any hope, your time had elapsed many centures ago. Nation of relaxed citizens go on your weakining in the perpetual siesta....

They may enjoy a siesta but their economy is still bigger and more succesful than Russia's. Maybe you should get rid of your dictator like they did and maybe you'll enjoy moderate success.

ShelleyS 14 | 2883

4 Aug 2008 / #15

perpetual siesta....

Dont knock the siesta Con, it's a perfect way of life :)

Crow

Keep Pope JP II out of your arguments. I for one care that you bring him into your twisted views.

ConstantineK 26 | 1298

4 Aug 2008 / #16

Be patient, it's only a jealousy of north inhabitant. Our siestas are full of snow and winter twilights. It is rainy here, summer is already over, that's why I am so jealous.

OP Crow 154 | 9607

4 Aug 2008 / #17

NATO is bad and Pope John Paul II didn`t support NATO attack on Serbs.

This is my oppinion. I have my democratic right to say what i think. Thanks to good God, Poland and Polish forum are still far more democratic then USA or any other country of so called west and so i can speak here.

southern 73 | 7059

4 Aug 2008 / #18

Thanks to good God

I wonder what has been done thanks to bad God.

OP Crow 154 | 9607

4 Aug 2008 / #19

for one, Poles and Serbs aren`t two ethoses but one and same. Just `bad Gods` of England and Germany like to see us divided and so we are considered to be two nations today. Bad God is very happy to exploit and assimilate Slavs. Bad God drinks Slavic blood and seek to grab as more as he can.

but eventualy, bag God miscalculates

Borrka 37 | 592

4 Aug 2008 / #20

Relax Raven.
Bad Gods of Kremlin are responsible for all your problems.
But I agree - we Poles are close to you Serbs.
Just look at hundreds of "Serb" toponyms in Poland.

OP Crow 154 | 9607

4 Aug 2008 / #21

Just look at hundreds of "Serb" toponyms in Poland.

let me add something here...

Those are Sarmatian toponymes and could be conneceted with Serbians only if official science, free from any political influence, can prove that some form of Serbian name was old/archaic original and universal name for all Slavs. Seams that linguistic science coming to that conclusion on the base of old data and comparative linguistics

If that can be truth, we can say that today`s Serbs of Balkan and Lusatia (Slavs of Balkan and Lusatia) are in fact last bearers of that old original name.

Bad Gods of Kremlin are responsible for all your problems.

i don`t think so. Realy

With or without Russia, so called west would seek for new sources of resources using pure violance. That`s what THEY doing in history all the time. Just look what happened to American natives (genocide and extinction), remind yourself of colonial rule, etc, etc

After all, think about time of Slavic slavery. Russians didn`t invented it but Greaks and Romans. Think about destroyed Great Moravia, before that about Dacian disaster, destruction of native Europeans- numerous Celtic tribes, Gouls, Picts,... (when even native languages were replaced with new one) on the west part of Europe. Etc, etc...

Russia failed sometimes but Russia seams preety naive in comparision with so called west. You can`t even compare it.

Relax Raven.

i will

But I agree - we Poles are close to you Serbs.

that`s why i`m relaxed and i know how would THIS SITUATION exactly finish, sooner or later. Polish politicians who force politics on the base of Poland vs. Poland approach going to oblivion in the eyes of Polish public. Any Slavic politician, in any Slavic country, who refuse to obey to Slavic public in that particular Slavic country, would sunk politicaly.

Seanus 15 | 19666

10 May 2009 / #22

The Pope tried to do what was right and fair. He knew of the Slavic connection but he too had an agenda which he couldn't single-mindedly pursue. I don't think it was a betrayal, Crow. Croats are Slavic too and they are also Catholic. Did Poland betray them too?