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Poles and Falaise pocket - WWII


Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
12 May 2009 /  #31
I know why the Germans fight so stubbornly even when they seem to have lost the war. They don't want to take the rap for what they've done.

In the case of Falaise pocket the Hitler youth fought so stubbornly because they've been thoroughly brainwashed.

It would seem a large number were manning the machine guns over Omaha,but that will need verified,certainly many people claiming Polish citizenship were captured in nazi uniform in normandy,1st armoured openly recruited some of these.

Less "band of brothers" please, there was a number of Silesians forcefully recruited who were captured behind the lines by Paras, these guys were auxillaries on none combat duties, the people manning the guns at Omaha came from German units.
jeep - | 23  
12 May 2009 /  #32
Exactly what do you feel that insight should have told that doggie Bratwurst?

Incidentally, the writer was probably one of the most insightful people alive in '44.

Tell me, have you any knowledge of what happened to the children the Nazis left behind in France?

Or what happened to the French ladies who fraternised with the 'Boche' ?

Do you know what happened to French men who fraternized with the 'Bosche'?

Perhaps you feel that they all lacked insight?

Perhaps you feel that you alone are gifted with insight into events that you did not witness?
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423  
12 May 2009 /  #33
I for one would be very cautious to believe in any post war mythos.
The french for example weren't especially disturbed during their occupation, the SS unit Charlemagne was with the dutch one of the biggest and most famous/successful.

It was never black and white as in here the good people of Europe (meaning all besides the Germans) and there the purest evil (meaning the Germans).

That's propaganda.

So to say that "every french child looked with purest hate at the Germans" is a joke...coming from an author maybe...who had a way with words, who knows.

The other point is that I would only with a huge helping of salt accept any pro-polish statement by ethnic Germans who ended up somehow still in Poland after the war...my god what else should they say if they wanted to stay alive??? They probably had to prove their "polishness" double and threefold.

As the war was lost it was convenient to blame Germans only but without the enthusiastic help and support of millions of non-Germans they never could have hold onto half of Europe for so many years...be realistic here!

As they say: "The victory has many fathers...the defeat is an orphan." If the Nazis had won the same french and dutch who now couldn't do enough to prove their "brave resistance" in shaving poor girls head would had just lived on under the Nazis as they did the last years!

They even paid for souvenirs!
jeep - | 23  
12 May 2009 /  #34
Sokrates, there weren't enough home-grown Germans to go round.

The Nazis defending defending Evil Adolph Empire came from all corners of his Empire.

Between 500,000 and 1,000,00 Polish Nationals signed up to become Nazi soldiers.
Why not, the Nazi army was the best fed and best equipped army in Europe.
Nazis lived off the fat of every country in Europe, their soldiers got beer, sausage, and bread every day.

If you were a Nazi, you were a member of the Master Race.
If you were volksDeutch Nazi, that was nearly as good.
Your family got fed, while those around were half starved.
You didn't get kicked around by Nazis, your wife wasn't raped by Nazis.

The alternative was often a slave labour camp.
Sometimes a punishment camp.

Bratvurst, nought out of 10 for insight I'm afraid.

The post war myths were deliberately brought about by the Western Allies to hold free Europe together in their stand-off with Russia.
They let the Nazi Generals write their own history.
They re-armed Germany, and let the Nazi Generals who had orchestrated the Vehrmacht's many attrocities because they need to get their own men home.

You are correct that it is ridiculous to blame Germans for the Nazis.
Many Germans died in punishment camps because they didn't toe the Nazi line.
Germans were outnumbered by other Nationals by 1944.

Nazi-ism was the most evil plague that ever crawled this earth.
Under Evil Adolph's guiding hand it infected much of German and Austria, and smaller groups in other countries.
They'd seen Germany's standard of living rise on the backs of industries funded by money stolen from Jews and Jews working at slave labour in those factories and wanted some of it.

Please God let me be so dumb
that unto Auschvitz I shall not come.

Evil Adolph wasn't German.
Austrians in the SS outnumbered Germans pro-rata at the start of the War.

They held on to Europe for a very short time as Empires go.
Evil Adolph reckoned on a thousand years.
His Empire lasted barely one 1000 days.

Nazis certainly didn't get enthusiastic support anywhere.
Evil Adolph need brutal troops in every occupied keep teh lid on a smouldering cauldron of hatred.

They held onto it through fear, which proved their downfall in the end.

But there, I relying on historical fact not your insight, so I daresay you'll have some propaganda to ricule fact.

Oh yes, I expect that author had a way with words.
I find authors tend to have a way with words.
In fact, I suspect that having a way with words is a pre-requisite to being an author.
But a way with words doesn't make a man a liar, and it doesn't rob him of insight.

However much you may wish it to.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423  
12 May 2009 /  #35
Bratvurst, nought out of 10 for insight I'm afraid.

Well...another one lost for the reality I fear! :(
Na ja..no big loss about one who writes such:

and how most of the Hollywood accounts portraying the Vehrmacht as human beings was pure bunkum.

All marsians then, right???

Boy...tell me about brainwashed! :)

Evil Adolph need brutal troops in every occupied keep teh lid on a smouldering cauldron of hatred.

Oh puuuuleeeeeeeze are you stuck in the 60ies or what???

timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article3998943.ece

...Simone de Beauvoir, the writer, and Jean-Paul Sartre, the philosopher, were devotees of allnight parties fuelled by alcohol and lust.

"It was only in the course of those nights that I discovered the true meaning of the word party," was how de Beauvoir put it. Sartre was no less enthusiastic: "Never were we as free as under the German occupation." ...

Not all was as black and white as you want it to be boy!
jeep - | 23  
12 May 2009 /  #36
I couldn't get your link to work Bratvurst.

Could you check it for mistakes and publish it again please?

Jo G's picture are always worth a 1000 words.

Would you agree with me perhaps that dear Jo G had a very special way with words?

Is that you or me lost for reality Bratvurst?

Sub-humans Bratvurst, erstwhile humans devoid of human decency.

Not stuck anywhere, perhaps I have a bit of a way with words?
I'm fairly fluent with many Englishes.
If you care to tell me your favourite, I'll consider it.
But please don't expect me to spell Martians with a small m.

Many divisions in rural France robbing Frenchmen to fuel alcohol and lust.

What makes you think I'm a boy Bratvurst?
I never assumed you were a sausage.
nunczka 8 | 458  
12 May 2009 /  #37
Bratwurst, whilst it's true that the Hitler Youth faught with fanatical courage, you may reduce the romance in your contributions if you study they way Nazi High Command distributed their best units, expecially their best armoured units, against Europe's Liberators

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - The Vatican played down Pope Benedict's teenage membership of the Hitler Youth Tuesday after it was highlighted by Jewish critics of remarks he made about the Holocaust during his continuing visit to Israel.

An official spokesman withdrew an initial statement that the German-born pope had "never, never, never" been in the Hitler Youth after reporters pointed out that Benedict himself had said he was -- in a 1996 book on the then cardinal, Joseph Ratzinger.

Rev. Federico Lombardi, the Vatican spokesman, revised his statement to say that the pope had been signed up against his will and did not take an active part in the Nazi Youth movement.

"He was enrolled involuntarily into the Hitler Youth but he had no active participation," Lombardi said. "The Hitler Youth is not a significant experience in his life because he was not an active participant. It was just something that was done."
isthatu2 4 | 2,704  
13 May 2009 /  #38
nunczka

Thanks for the link.

"band of brothers"

Sorry, I dont use Ambrose as an accurate historical account buddy,he was a great bloke and very insightfull but in my experiance(and maybe its editing mistakes) but there are far to many glaring errors in his work to take it at face value,ie acording to him it was Gnrl Gales 6th airborne at Arnhem.....

bollocks. gerries tried to form the unit and failed.

Realy,shame there is plenty of documentry evidence including photos of unit parades to disprove your obvious embaresment at some Poles willingness to don any uniform for their own ends. Why does every other nation in Europe,freely admit their country had nazis/fellow travellers but Poland? It brings no more shame on you than the fact a few Brits joined the BFK wSS shames me....get over it and move on.No one is saying put up posters honoring these people or anything....

In the case of Falaise pocket the Hitler youth fought so stubbornly because they've been thoroughly brainwashed.

Partly,but mostly because they were led by extremly experianced former LSAH officers and NCOs and also had top pick of equipment.

Nazis certainly didn't get enthusiastic support anywhere.

er,pick you up on that...Nazis most certainly DID get enthusiastic support in a hell of a lot of places, the western vollunteers to the SS were just that,not conscripts but french,dutch,walloon,norge,sweddish,croation......all willing to sign on in the war against the "barbarian east and world jewry"....sad but true.

And,suppose a nazi invasion of Britain had occured,how long till Mosely and the BUF came out of the wodwork waving home made blood banners?

They'd seen Germany's standard of living rise on the backs of industries funded by money stolen from Jews

Nope,theyd seen industry flourishing under Hjalmer Schachts economic policies of reinflation through credit.......

Evil Adolph need brutal troops in every occupied keep teh lid on a smouldering cauldron of hatred.

Didnt need them in Vichy France,or Hungary untill the red army got too close...
McCoy 27 | 1,275  
13 May 2009 /  #39
...

cut your crap laddy and stop farting with your mouth. show us the evidence that there were polish highlanders in waffen ss cause for now you are just full of shyt , smartass.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423  
13 May 2009 /  #40
There is a thread on that over at Axis history...fairly unknown stuff...

I never heard of that before either: pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goralenvolk
isthatu2 4 | 2,704  
13 May 2009 /  #41
Did I say wSS,if so I appologies,no,they came under the control of the SS but were not actually "in" the wSS.

The evidence comes from Polish magazines buddy,you do the search,RP from about 2 years ago,my copy is in my other home so,if you are so indignent Im wrong,you do a quick web search in your native tongue and come back and admit your just blinkered by nationalism or Im wrong and the pretty pictures of hundreds of Gorale in german uniform being inspected by their Polish commander and some German officers is some sort of evil western propaganda.

Quite pathetic really,if any other nation in europe tried to wriggle out of this you would be the first to jump on them....why try to hide history,you know what they say about those who forget it dont you?

..........................................................

Ah,thankyou my Nordic aryan brother;)You saved me a web search :)

............................................................
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423  
13 May 2009 /  #42
Ah,thankyou my Nordic aryan brother;)You saved me a web search :)

heh:)
McCoy 27 | 1,275  
13 May 2009 /  #43
now you dont know what you are and were talking about. if have nothing to do and nothing to say just google some porn. would be better for all of us.

____________
hehehe, if you only can read polish fukcing nordic bros you would know what youre posting

Goralischer Waffen SS Legion [edytuj]

Fiaskiem skończyła się też próba zorganizowania w drugiej połowie 1942 jednostki Goralischer Waffen SS Legion. Zgłosiło się około 300 osób, z których wytypowano 200 zdolnych do służby wojskowej. Do obozu szkoleniowego w Trawnikach trafiło około 200 ochotników. Popadli oni w konflikt ze stacjonującymi tam Ukraińcami. Większość zdezerterowała, a resztę wywieziono na roboty przymusowe w głąb Niemiec – do SS trafiło kilku spośród ochotników.

:]
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423  
13 May 2009 /  #44
hehehe, if you only can read polish fukcing nordic bros you would know what youre posting

Well...there is some thing called online website translators...

Don't take it personally McCoy!

After the occupation by the Germans in September 1939 Podhala prewar activist OZN-u - Dr. Henryk Szatkowski began with the support of the occupying forces to promote the idea of a mountaineers were of German origin - Goralenvolk - a nation (people) Góralski.

From the very beginning Goralenvolk was fought by the resistance movement.

isthatu2 4 | 2,704  
13 May 2009 /  #45
now you dont know what you are and were talking about. if have nothing to do and nothing to say just google some porn. would be better for all of us.

lol,proved completly wrong,even by his own countrymen and this is the mature reaction...go look at porn....oh dear,maybe if you spent less time looking at tits yourself you would spend less time looking like a tit.....

Whats the big deal anyway? Does your faith in Poland suddenly crumble now you see a few of your fellow countrymen were self serving scumbags?Wow,Id have a little more faith if I was you....I feel no personal shame for the 50 odd Brits who joined the SS,why should you for the 300 or so Poles who did?

Or does your shame come more from the fact that they were a complete f*ck up of a unit,I imagine if they had succsefully fought against the soviets while in nazi uniform you would be claiming them as true polish patriots....
McCoy 27 | 1,275  
13 May 2009 /  #46
Don't take it personally McCoy!

i dont. im polish, so most of people i love and most of people i hate are polish. but wiki says it straight Goralenvolk mission has failed.
isthatu2 4 | 2,704  
13 May 2009 /  #47
say it straight Goralenvolk mission has failed.

Yes,it did,so did the BFK, British Free Corp, that doesnt mean it didnt happen though does it,I repeat,you seem more embaresed that it was a crap unit....
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423  
13 May 2009 /  #48
i dont. im polish, so most of people i love and most of people i hate are polish. but wiki says it straight Goralenvolk mission has failed.

Of course...the whole war has failed...but what would interest me today would be the standing of these people today, in modern Poland!
Do they still think they were/are somewhat "german"??? I never heard of these people before...
Is there still some bad blood left?
Salomon 2 | 436  
13 May 2009 /  #49
Do they still think they were somewhat "german"???

Worst Nazi on forum wants to get rid of his heritage.

After the occupation by the Germans in September 1939 Podhala prewar activist OZN-u - Dr. Henryk Szatkowski began with the support of the occupying forces to promote the idea of a mountaineers were of German origin - Goralenvolk - a nation (people) Góralski.

They failed
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423  
13 May 2009 /  #50
Worst Nazi on forum wants to get rid of his herritage.

Having a break with fighting the Ukrainians Solo??? LOL

Hey "Solomon" why don't you tell people where you are from?
McCoy 27 | 1,275  
13 May 2009 /  #51
Do they still think they were somewhat "german"

probably not. maybe nazis but i dont believe that too. there were polish in german army ( i know these guys presonaly, then they escaped and joined polish forces ) some because they believed they are on the winning side some because they wanted better life for their families, some because they were from mixed families, some because they had no choice ... i will tell you a few stories i read and heard about if you want to but not now. im drunk and sleepy so if you dont mind ill just go and dream about smashing your helmet with my sabre. gutren nacht krauty or whatever you say there
isthatu2 4 | 2,704  
13 May 2009 /  #52
Is there still some bad blood left?

As an outsider I find the highlanders seem almost venerated in some Polish circles,no problems there,I love the music myself.

They failed

Yes,but they tried and unfortunatly,when it comes to collaborators and traitors thats what counts......like BB said,all the nazis failed,they lost the war,that certainly doesnt mean the german nazis were anyless nazi.....flump.
Salomon 2 | 436  
13 May 2009 /  #53
Having a break with fighting the Ukrainians Solo??? LOL

I've asked you question. Why you want to get rid of this opinion if you support this ideas ?

Hey "Solomon" why don't you tell people where you are from?

I am form Poland.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423  
13 May 2009 /  #54
im drunk and sleepy so if you dont mind ill just go and dream about smashing your helmet with my sabre. gutren nacht krauty or whatever you say there

My helmet is sabre proofed...(I hope)....'nite McCoy! :)

I am form Poland.

I don't think so...the Poles here don't think so...you are a liar and a provokateur (troll)!

I've asked you question.

You don't ask, you assume and accuse and troll. You are not interested in a discussion!
Salomon 2 | 436  
13 May 2009 /  #55
I see Aryan alliance :)

Isthatu and BB. :)
McCoy 27 | 1,275  
13 May 2009 /  #56
Yes,but they tried and unfortunatly,when it comes to collaborators and traitors thats what counts......like BB said,all the nazis failed,they lost the war,that certainly doesnt mean the german nazis were anyless nazi.....flump.

jesus christ, man, just cut your crap. its much better to admit that you were wrong than proving that water is dry. nite
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423  
13 May 2009 /  #57
I see Aryan alliance :)

Isthatu and BB. :)

As I said, a troll...an unimaginative at that!
isthatu2 4 | 2,704  
13 May 2009 /  #58
McCoy

Your self confessed drunk tonight,go to bed,get a nice rest and come back tommorow. Dont worry,I wont hold your drunken stupidity against you,nite nite my deluded friend. Just cant stand a Brit knowing your history can ********* thinks" I cant spin the usuall mix of self pity and tub thumping propaganda with this one..." :)

As I said, a troll...an unimaginative at that!

Nein,mein kamarade,let me just warm up the Tiger and lets invade somewhere together. How about France ,to much hassle going east,they dont seem to appreciate our efforts to bring Kulture...;)
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423  
13 May 2009 /  #59
Nein,mein kamarade,let me just warm up the Tiger and lets invade somewhere together. How about France ,to much hassle going east,they dont seem to appreciate our efforts to bring Kulture...;)

*sighs tiredly and starts to pack lunch box for the travel*

:)

Wurst oder Käse?
Salomon 2 | 436  
13 May 2009 /  #60
I don't think so...the Poles here don't think so...

What can I do. :)

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