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Only two countries in Europe did not accept XVIIIc partitions of Poland..


Filios1 8 | 1,336  
25 Sep 2008 /  #1
In the 18th century...
Those two countries were Turkey, and Denmark.
Respect for Turkish brothers. Our two countries had their share of conflict, but never lacked respect for one another.

Discuss.
Ozi Dan 26 | 569  
25 Sep 2008 /  #2
Our two countries had their share of conflict, but never lacked respect for one another.

Good point, and I'd have to agree with you. I think Norman Davies has a small anecdote in God's Playground regarding the Porte's diplomatic response to Poland's eclipse. Can't remember the exact detail, but it was along the lines of a mournful suspension of diplomatic ties without a full severance in anticipation of the revival of Poland - it was a respectful and quite touching gesture.

It makes you wonder - what would have happened if Poland and Turkey allied themselves? Now that would have been a potential powerhouse.
Dekameron 1 | 146  
25 Sep 2008 /  #3
Turkey did not accept partitions because it pissed off Russia, Turkey did not really care for Poland it was simply to annoy its political rival.

Denmark at the time had a strong polish rooted nobility circle but it was an empty gesture.

what would have happened if Poland and Turkey allied themselves?

Dream on, two completely different cultures with no common goals except for keeping Russia at bay and even then not always.
OP Filios1 8 | 1,336  
25 Sep 2008 /  #4
Turkey did not accept partitions because it pissed off Russia, Turkey did not really care for Poland it was simply to annoy its political rival

No. Turks always respected Poland and its fighting ability, and even though you're partially right, that they we're not on friendly terms with Russia at the time, they also did it to give the Poles some of their dignity and honor back. You have to remember that the Turks we're no small power at the time either, and they backed up their words to a degree. A lot of Poles escaped to Turkey and formed their own communities, and a high ranking General, Jozef Bem even became governor of Aleppo. Countries always look after their own interests first, thats how its always been. But Turkey could have just as easily remained neutral and kept Poles out of their country.

It makes you wonder - what would have happened if Poland and Turkey allied themselves? Now that would have been a potential powerhouse.

I still think Polands greatest blunder was going to the aid of the Austrians at Vienna. Sobieski should have kept his troops away from this, and let Austria and even Germany get overrun by the Turks. The Turks would have been stretching themselves quite far after that kind of advance, and would not have likely turned their sights on Poland and Eastern Europe. At least, not for a while. Poland-Lithuania could have allied themselves with them and formed a great commonwealth of three countries.

The Austrians were so grateful that in a 100 years they would be carving up Poland for themselves. Goes to show that you should look after your own ass FIRST, always.
rock - | 460  
26 Sep 2008 /  #5
Turks likes Poles. It comes form history. Although they stopped us in Vienna, Turks did not accept partitions of them. During 150 years, Ottoman sultans asked consciously ''where is Polish diplomats'' to the other countries diplomats in Turkey in the meetings, want to show Turks wants freedom of Poles.

I still think Polands greatest blunder was going to the aid of the Austrians at Vienna. Sobieski should have kept his troops away from this, and let Austria and even Germany get overrun by the Turks. The Turks would have been stretching themselves quite far after that kind of advance, and would not have likely turned their sights on Poland and Eastern Europe. At least, not for a while. Poland-Lithuania could have allied themselves with them and formed a great commonwealth of three countries.

I agree but it is too late.
Dekameron 1 | 146  
26 Sep 2008 /  #6
No. Turks always respected Poland and its fighting ability

Turks as such never gave a broken penny about Poland, they did what they did to **** off Russia who was an arch rival at the time.

A lot of Poles escaped to Turkey and formed their own communities, and a high ranking General, Jozef Bem even became governor of Aleppo. Countries always look after their own interests first, thats how its always been. But Turkey could have just as easily remained neutral and kept Poles out of their country.

Thats chiefly because of turkish logic, they saw Poles as fervent catholics and they reasoned that even though the faith is different someone who believes so much has to be a good man thus they entrusted Poles and gave them great freedom, its a cultural thing rather than a special treatment "because we were POLES".

Turks likes Poles.

Yeah and thats why they invaded us twice, from Turkey with love, Jesus CH you folks actually believe in your own propaganda.
OP Filios1 8 | 1,336  
26 Sep 2008 /  #7
Yeah and thats why they invaded us twice, from Turkey with love

You're taking the definition of like in its strictest sense... you can like and respect a country, and still invade it when the time is right. You do what is best for your own country... Name me one country in Europe, other than maybe Hungary (even though Hungary was on the axis side in WW2) who at one time or another disagreed with Polands politics, or tried invading her. If you want to be cheap, you can name off some far away western countries like Spain or Portugal.

Every country has its sets of conflicts throughout history. Christ man, stop being so naiive.

Thats chiefly because of turkish logic, they saw Poles as fervent catholics and they reasoned that even though the faith is different someone who believes so much has to be a good man thus they entrusted Poles and gave them great freedom, its a cultural thing rather than a special treatment "because we were POLES".

You're seperating religion and culture from the nature of a Pole when they are both, or at least were, his main parts. I really dont even know what you're getting at in this paragraph... You seem to agree and disagree with my previous statement at the same time.
lesser 4 | 1,311  
26 Sep 2008 /  #8
Turkey also had a rival in Austro-Hungarian Empire over Balkans. Denmark was unhappy with stronger Prussia.
rock - | 460  
27 Sep 2008 /  #9
It is true. But Turks today still like and respect Poles and it is not about Austro-Hungarian Empire and Russians of course.
enkidu 7 | 623  
27 Sep 2008 /  #10
Well... There may be some political reasons why Turkey did it. I do not care about it.
I am grateful.
Turkey and Poland were arch-enemy for how many years? About 400 if I remember it correctly. We (Polish) was weell... we call it "przedmurze" of the christianity and there is no word in english to describe it. Maybe a "stronghold" at most? You (Turkish) were a wave of the muslim intruders. And we have fought. A lot. With no mercy. During these years we been become half-Turkish to some point. Our weapons, clothes, language become Turkish-like. Even now there is a lot of words in Polish of Turkish origin.

Anyway... what I want to say: There is no mutual sympathy between us. There is mutual ( i believe) respect. If that is true that Turkey never recognized partitions of Poland - well I am finding this veeery touching. I think this is a highest degree of respect you can find - between enemies.

If any Turkish is reading this - I want to say: We are remember you. In our language. In our childish bedtime stories. We are remember you and we are respect you. You were great warriors.
lesser 4 | 1,311  
27 Sep 2008 /  #11
I am grateful.

In foreign politics there is no friends or enemies (Unless nutters don't rule). There are common and opposite interests. You are grateful because some state long time ago had a common interest with Polish state. This is nonsense.
Lukasz 49 | 1,746  
27 Sep 2008 /  #12
I disagree. So many times countries opened aliance because of good friendship because of trust. Germans make different choices Americans make different choices, Japanese make different choices not to mention Russians. Sometimes nations just stick together. Why Hungarians being part of Axis delieverd weapons for Polish underground - it was symphaty. The same Japanise they were cooperating with Poland and in some cases supporting us even they were part of Axis. In France or UK Polish had save place in exile in some not and it was always result of events in the past. Nations have different culture. Yes in modern world we can talk about interests etc. Now we have globalisation and most of world adopted western diplomacy and that is why west has so many problems - it is not possible to give for indians trinkets as sign of friendship. Still there remian cultural differences and we should remember it.




Turks had Tatar buffor and Poland had Ukrainian buffor There are some Turkish influcnces all in all we had coffie and some goods form Turkey. I like Turks.

Wing hussars had tiger leather on their armor and it was imported form Turkey. Sobers have oriental origin as well.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,591  
27 Sep 2008 /  #13
Then you will all be one happy family when they start to come over whereas Germans will be glad to see the backs of them....all win! :)
Crow 139 | 8,641  
27 Sep 2008 /  #14
There are some Turkish influcnces all in all we had coffie and some goods form Turkey.

one info dobri brate Luk

actually Turks has nothing with coffee. They don`t drink it. They never used coffee and just coffee caravans travelled across Turkish territory in Anatolia. Even Turks who drink coffee doing that being influenced by Europeans

Coffee originates from Ethiopia where somebody noticed that animals who eat it becoming more active. So, people tested it and since that time coffee caravans travel to Europe

I like Turks.

That`s the Franch-British influence. You should beware of them. They are semitinized. Above everything they, togather with Turks, work against Serbs. Britain and France are trecherous allays. They betrayed Serbians. They would betray Poles, too. Beware Poles

Consolidate you thoughts Sarmatians! Heeey Sarmatians!!!?
Lukasz 49 | 1,746  
27 Sep 2008 /  #15
Americans Brirish and French sometimes were helping Poland. We had independence in 1918 because of American support. American voluntires (pilots) fighted against Soviets in 1920. French helped us in 1918 nad 1920 as well. British sometimes were very helpful.

We recived help so many times and yes I know that not always everything was perfect but still some countries are always hostile towards us - some are sometimies friendly.

I don't see the reason to forget this positive events in the past.

ctually Turks has nothing with coffee. They don`t drink it. They never used coffee and just coffee caravans travelled across Turkish territory in Anatolia. Even Turks who drink coffee doing that being influenced by EuropeansCoffee originates from Ethiopia where somebody noticed that animals who eat it becoming more active. So, people tested it and since that time coffee caravans travel to Europe

In battle of Viena Polish soldiers captured coffie and it was prepared for drinking but I believe you that Etiopians have discovered it.
z_darius 14 | 3,968  
27 Sep 2008 /  #16
American voluntires (pilots) fighted against Soviets in 1920

Weren't they Polish Americans and their trip to Poland was a private affair? I have an impression the US government specifically refused to get involved.

British sometimes were very helpful.

I'm sure they did that in utmost secrecy. The usual quiet, British way :)
Lukasz 49 | 1,746  
28 Sep 2008 /  #17
Weren't they Polish Americans and their trip to Poland was a private affair? I have an impression the US government specifically refused to get involved.

No that is the most interesting fact. All voluntiers weren't Polish Americans

American authors writte about it.

Leader of this squadron
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cedric_Fauntleroy

Cedric Fauntleroy (1891-1973) (sometimes also Cedric Faunt le Roy) was an American pilot who in 1919 volunteered to serve in the Polish Air Force during the Polish-Bolshevik War. Fauntleroy was an air combat veteran of the West Front in World War I. He was among the best pilots of the Polish 7th Air Escadrille, dubbed the Kościuszko Escadrille (the Kosciuszko Squadron); he war promoted to colonel and he received Poland's highest military decoration: the Virtuti Militari. The Kosciuszko Squadron made over 400 combat flights against forces from the Soviet Union and their allies. The Kosciuszko was named in honor of Tadeusz Kościuszko, the Polish officer who fought under Gen. George Washington during the American Revolution.

rock - | 460  
28 Sep 2008 /  #18
We are muslim but Turkish people is different than Ottomans. Time past and fighting for spreading religion is no more a target for Turks. If necessary, fight for Turks is in front of fight for muslims.

Don't you seperate to be Polish and to be catholic more compared with 400 years ago?

For example, if somebody asked a Turk, which one do you want to make alliance? Poland or Saudi Arabia or Iran? I believe % 75 of the Turks will answer Poles. It will be % 90 for Bosnaiaks and Albanians. % 75 for Hungarians or Finnish. Even % 50 for Greeks.

This shows religion is not the main issue as before for Turks.

But, unfortunately it is not like that for Europeans I think.

After september 11th, there is a propoganda that all the muslims are potantial terorists. As far as I see, most of the christains want to believe this. The fact is USA wanted to create another enemy after cold war and choose islam. But, you will see it will change as Russia and China are stronger now.
lesser 4 | 1,311  
28 Sep 2008 /  #19
Lukasz, you mix private initiatives with government policies. I'm advanced in reading Dmowski book in which he widely write about secrets of diplomatic policies before, during and after WWI. Those countries which supported Poland regaining independence did it only because their interests were similar. However some of these countries prevented reborn Poland to be larger because such development would not be similar with their interests.

Leadership representing serious countries think in political categories. Churchill if I recall correctly made famous comment about this issue.
ConstantineK 26 | 1,259  
14 Oct 2008 /  #20
In the 18th century...
Those two countries were Turkey, and Denmark.
Respect for Turkish brothers. Our two countries had their share of conflict, but never lacked respect for one another.

That was only because they perfectly had realized that the second "europe's ill man" had been Ottoman empire. Next, it would be their turn.
celinski 31 | 1,258  
14 Oct 2008 /  #21
Charlie Chaplin said it best.

Charlie Chaplin's Great Dictator's Final Speech - (Oct.1940)



Now you tell me: Why did Britain and France declare War on the German Reich in 1939? There was something call the "Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact" which was a Treaty of Non-aggression between Nazi Germany and the USSR which amonst other things includded the invation, partition and subsequent anexation of Poland by these two countries.

This of course, as agreed happened. Still, Britain and France declared War on Nazi Germany, but not on the USSR.
The Question is: Why if both the USSR and Nazi Germany commited the same crime one got away with murder and the other didn't? Why when a fascist state invades another country we talk about "Crimes Against Humanity" mean while when a Communist Country does so ...or for the same reason a so call Democracy does so...they can bend all the rules and get away with murder? Do you get me? I bet you do!!! Peace Out!!! ;o)
Mr Grunwald 20 | 1,554  
13 Jul 2009 /  #22
It was Denmark-Norway so you could say 3! :)
Mr Grunwald 20 | 1,554  
13 Jul 2009 /  #24
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark-Norway

Denmark-Norway (Danish: Danmark-Norge, Norwegian: Danmark-Norge or Danmark-Noreg, German: Dänemark-Norwegen) is the historiographical name for a former political entity, union, consisting of the kingdoms of Denmark and Norway
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,591  
13 Jul 2009 /  #25
I meant rather a link for the handling of these partitions...:)
Mr Grunwald 20 | 1,554  
13 Jul 2009 /  #26
Wierd enough I can't find any link to the objection of Ottoman Empire and Denmark-Norway :S
rock - | 460  
13 Jul 2009 /  #27
I learned recently that another Turkish-Polish cooperation was Prometheus Organization.

Have you got any information about it ?

This is a link about Prometheus organization established in Poland.
Turkey and Poland work together against Russia.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prometheism
mephias 11 | 304  
25 Jul 2009 /  #28
actually Turks has nothing with coffee. They don`t drink it. They never used coffee and just coffee caravans travelled across Turkish territory in Anatolia. Even Turks who drink coffee doing that being influenced by Europeans

Come on!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_coffee
theturkishtimes.com/archive/02/12_15/c_kahve.html
realcoffee.co.uk/Article.asp?Cat=history&page=3

"Historians tell us that coffee was first introduced to Europe by an accident of war. In 1683, when the Turkish army fought a battle with the Austrian army, the Turks accidentally left sacks of coffee beans behind when they retreated from the gates of Vienna. The Austrians quickly realized what kind of treasure the Turkish army had been given them. So the Austrians decided to develop their own special blend of coffee."
Crow 139 | 8,641  
25 Jul 2009 /  #29
this thread is among biggest psicho-social experiments here
rock - | 460  
25 Jul 2009 /  #30
Crow

Turkish foreign minister is visiting Serbia and Montenegro today.
Turkish-Serbian relations are better than you present crow.

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