Poland-Russia: never-ending story?

Hehe ;P actually i'm half Polish, half French (my mother is from Poland, and my father from France) ;) So i can use "we" both for being French and Polish ;)

With all due respect on your personal choices but, I can notice that it must be easely to you to rather choose to be Pole (that way true Western/at least have prerogatives :) ), because after defeat of Vircengetorix (or to say just Vircen- Warlord of Ghets, in original/not romanized), those people of today`s France who survived genocide (in that time more then one mil. natives was mutiletad by Roman invaders) were forced to abonden their native European heritage and under pressure accepted (Romanization) imposed Roman (read Semitic) culture/language.

But, as I said I have respect on any of your choices because you seam to be regular guy (what is most important in any of your choices).

Just tell me, i am curious... Are people of France aware that they under pressure abondened their original native European Western heritage or Franch people believe in delusion.

...I'm Polish and French, not more French, not more Polish (and i might have some German ancestors too ;)


Not really, do you know the Gauls ? When the Romans came here, they partly imposed their culture, as they accepted to share it with the Gauls (real French). Then France is a great mix today, so i don't know if there is a real native European heritage here... ;)

I am sure that they were Slavs (or to say Proto Slavs), as some schoolars suggest


Oh don`t worry. Germans originates from Slavs, too


Not partly but absolutely, you know- Romans were very cruel


just wait, you didn`t sow anything, yet. Those who don`t resist always mix well


First Romans were real Semitics (by phisical apperance)- in time/and before when Rasena (Etruria/today`s Northern Italy, Padania) was conquored by them, later due to mixing with natives they changed their Egyptian genetic line and become partly Whites. But, they were still loyal to their `victorious` Semitic heritage

Look man, good that you can turn to Western (Slavic) side, being half Polish. Good that you resist, God blessed you

:)

No they were Celts.


...excuse me ?... :P


Have you ever heard of the Gallo-Romans ?...


Thanks :P

Sure but, Celts were Slavic (or both were but, we have confusion in written data)


what to tell you man, biggest troubles expect from traitors. Always

But, I can tell you that I feel sorry for them. They are in fact just one more victim of Roman penetration in European inland


Yes, but those two cultures exclude each others and to become Gallo-Roman one needed to stop to be Gall


Its nothing man

I too expect that you criticise Serbs if we accept `modern Romanization` and to blessed us if we continue to resist and defend Western (Slavic) heritage

No you're getting confused, the Celts were not Slavic ! They were Celts, that's all.


What are you talking about ?...traitors ? Germans are descending from Germanic tribes, not Slavic nor Celt or anything else ;)

Polson

This time, I won`t insist... its another topic

and after all, I more or less already elaborated problem in another threads

Art. II of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide: "...genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in WHOLE or in PART, a national, ethnical, racial, or religious group...".

The phrase "in whole or in part" is important. Perpetrators need not intend to destroy the entire group. Destruction of only part of a group (such as its educated members or members living in one region) is also genocide. Most authorities require intent to destroy a substantial number of group members - mass murder. But an individual criminal may be guilty of genocide even if he kills one person, so long as he knew he was participating in a larger plan to destroy the group.

there was for truhlei post (Jul 16, 07 13.57

Oh Poles, Poles!!!!! What are you doing!!!!! Why you didnt vote for Kachinskiys? You deprive us from this key-ally in our european and world policy!!! I am in deep mourning!!!!


Well, the fact that you are not still Russians is only our defect, we will improve!


Oh what I said? This is a typical position of the effiminate nation....Continue to sit....

Thats all Russia has though. No technology, science, arts, industry or commerce. Its a sad reflection that all you have to offer the world is a quirk or geology. Not much to be proud of there.

Unfortunately this is set to continue as long as the Russian people keep the same subservient serf mentality that has seen them through the tragedy that is their history.

Russians are always looking for the 'strong man' to lead them to glory, but all they get is demagogues and nut cases.

This is an edit. I worte something and changed my mind...I do not understand politics well enough to participate in discussions such as these and I should keep my mouth shut.

Most of the posts added to this thread today would have gone someway to answering your question however they have myseriously 'disappeared'.

Now I know how Burmese monks feel.

You read too much of Yastrzebsky and Pavlovsky, remember that they are our Polish agents in Kremlin. ;)

LOL - I would hardly call the UK an effiminate nation - look at our history! I think you will find some of the bravest and most historical men have come from Britian....


if you read my post you would have noticed I used 'we' - we as a collective - not me personally - I lost family in both WWI & WWII so yes it did have an affect on my family and I get a little bit tired of hearing about how we sold everyone out!! There comes a time when you have to look after your own and that time came after WWII when England tried to rebuild itself, when people were in line for food - oh yes we had rationing and this didnt actually end completely until 1953......

Heh, perfect! Lets see what happened till the 1612 with Poland and with Russia?

Poland:

At the end of 18 cent lost all what she had, even independence.

Russia:

Took last scraps of Siberia
Took pretty part of nothern America (Alaska)
Took as a protector all Causasus
Took Ukraine, White Russia, Little Russia, Creamea, all Baltic territories, Finland, Poland, all Middle Asia, defended russian interests near Stockholm.
Russian Army took:

Berlin 3 times
Warshava 4 times
Paris 1 time
Vien 1 time
Rome 1 time
Neapol 1 time
Milano 1 time
Praga 1 time
Kenigsberg 2 times

Released:
Romania 3 times
Bulgaria 3 times
Yugoslavia 2 times (with Serbs)
Greece 2 times (first Greek republic)
South Italy 1 time
Northern Italy 1 time
Swizerland 1 time
Austria 1 time
Northern China 1 time
Mongolia 1 time

In fact, Poland did a lot of for Russia and that Russia even never (as, if) nicely (!) asked for help. Poland exist on her ground and Russia is aware of Polish position and profits on that. That is ugly and complete Slavic world knows that. Russia is not biggest Polish problem but, biggest wound for sure.

Poles are Slavs and all invaders on Russia thru history from western side needed to count on that fact. It was never comfortable to invaders to try to reach Russia marching thru Slavic Polish land, because no matter all, always existed Poles which couldn`t accept that somebody march via Poland to exterminate Slavic children in Russia. And, you Russian know that and count on that!!!

Poland, Czeska, before them Lusatian Serbs, Kashubians, Pomerans, Prussians, Bavarians... (before germanization)- all were first line on western borders of Slavdom and were greately scatered.

Same was/is with South Slavs. One would hardly examine who suffered/suffer more and was more scatered, Western or Southern Slavs. Saying that, I in the same time don`t denied fact that Eastern Slavs also were greately scatered. We all have our share in great historical sufferings of our kind.

We must be aware of fact that Slavdom, on western side, retreated approximately (!) from territories of todays France, Swiss, greater part of Germany, Belgia, Baltic (in general). South Slavs retreated from territories of todays Northern Italy, Austria (there existed border line between Western and South Slavs), Northern Albania, Anatolia. Eastern Slavs retreated from Romania, Hungary (there existed border line between South and East Slavs) and also from parts of Anatolia. If we speak particulary about Serbs, from Baltic to Balkan, level of sufferings and scaterings is abnormal, behind worse dark imagination.

You see, Constantin

Enormous pressure on Western and Southern Slavs exist for minimum 2500 years. Eastern Slavs and especialy Russia also had problems but, had much more comfort if we speak about safety. True (!), Russia (or to say Russians!) often tried to help to their brothers on South and West but, also sometimes profits in deal with Slavic foes or faild to help or just couldn`t help.

I think that minimum what Russia can do now, is to stop to blackmail other Slavs with energy (for example). Let`s start from that little step and sign of good-will from Russian side. Then, maybe, possibilities for new agriements occure

ok so maybe British point of view (in some way neutral) on relationships between some new members of EU and Russia. And which country lives in the past.


bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell

It is noticeable that our point of view is more and more popular among old EU members.

What I want add there is article about Lithuenia next is about Poland and next about Latvia.

Yes, we want their independence and in future their votes in EU. :)


It was very nice of him, but a little too lat. SOME 400 YEARS TOO LATE!! lol ;)

there is chance that Poland and Russia combine efforts arround at least one question!

I call my Polish and Russian brothers and sisters to arise their voice in protection of Lusatian Serbs which are in agony.

Serbian government initiated cultural project dedicated to Lusatians, as part of Rastko Project..

Introduction

rastko.org.yu/rastko-lu/istorija/eknox-destruction/eknox-destruction1. html


INVADERE ET SUBIUGARE

By E.L. Skip Knox

rastko.org.yu/rastko-lu/istorija/eknox-destruction/eknox-destruction2.html


EVELLERE ET PLANTARE

rastko.org.yu/rastko-lu/istorija/eknox-destruction/eknox-destruction3. html


CHAPTER 4: OSTSIEDLUNG

rastko.org.yu/rastko-lu/istorija/eknox-destruction/eknox-destruction4. html


Chapter 5

rastko.org.yu/rastko-lu/istorija/eknox-destruction/eknox-destruction5. html

I think that Russian voice in Germany will be much better heard. ;)

As to you Crow.

You are really patriotic Slav ;). I m curious about your future (Serb) I think you should folow your neighbours ... and forget about Russia.

as to your post:
Interesting German Slavs, I thought they were fully asimilated.

Situation is serious and only combined efforts of two biggest Slavic countries- Russia and Poland, can bring positive results...

Situation of Sorbs in Germany

rastko.org.yu/rastko-lu/istorija/savremena/schools2001.html

Mon, 08 Oct 2001 22:51:34 -0400

HELP US SAVE OUR SCHOOLS


Ludmila Budarjowa, President
Serbske sulske towaristwo
(Sorbian School Association)

EXISTENTIAL PROBLEMS OF THE SORBS

Summary about the existential problems of the Sorbs in view of the conditions in the Free State of Saxony

The Union, the Free State of Saxony and the Land of Brandenburg in their relations to the Sorbs

tcm-kp.de/schulstreit/existentialproblems/index.html


Cultural Genocide of Sorbs in Germany

"DOMOWINA" Union of Lusatian Sorbs press releases:

home.t-online.de/home/320051871311/presse.htm

Oh God, try to understand please one thing, that Polish or European points of view is not interesting for Russia. We need only one, you must pay for oil and gas full price, without any preferences. And in case of Poland, we have no any problems with it, you are pretty honest, but Ukraine......


Ha, all this historic moments in the past. As a mah who seriousely interested in history of Roman and Romeion Empires, I could say that this nations (Romans and Greeks) were the bravest of their times, but gradualy they lost all their courage ang lost all their possessions. The same happened with An-Sax nation...you are too rich and too lazy.

LoL "Late is better than never", it's a French expression ("Mieux vaut tard que jamais"), i think it's true. What matters here is that Sweden apologized. Now Poland and Sweden, as always (except in war times) are in really good terms ;)


Yes, and when there are some troubles, you simply cut everything and let the poor Ukrainians with no gas in winter !! That's so coward, and pathetic...Shame on you. Poland and the Baltic States understood that you are nothing more that big cowards, so they are going to let you with your d*mn oil and gas, and produce their own energy. Poland had already come to agreements with Norway and Denmark to import their oil and gas, and they'll cooperate more and more within next years.

You're out of the game, you and your so sad Russia, you'll pay for your cowardice. You're going to be all alone, and nobody will care of you anymore, then please don't come and cry at our feet.


And you too poor, and too sad ;) LoL

All good have their own prices. If you pay for something full price, there is no any problems, but if somebody is trying to get more goods for lower prices it means only one - pilfering!!! Wa cant finance Ukraine at the expense of our people.


Oh no, we are not poor. We are trying to live within our means.

I guess, but it's not a reason to cut it all in the middle of a cold winter, am i wrong ?? That's almost terrorism...


You're not poor...we've already discussed on that point, and i can tell you again, you, may have a good way of life, but there are a lot of Russians starving, and cold now that winter is coming...if you go out of big cities (Moscow, St-Peterburg, etc.) you'll see that life is not a fairy tale for everyone... ;)

energy issue is unfortunately in close connection with other opened questions between Russia and so called West but, I must say that i expected more from Russia

What I (for sure Serbian public in general) mean is that Russia can not fail as countries/powers of so called West failed. Double standards, unilateral pressures, illegal actions, state terrorism, economic and pharmaceutical sanctions... were/are forced by so called West in world’s policy, in last 15 years and Russia must refuse such behavior in international relations. Russia needs to find strength to resist on all pressures with attitude of one gentleman. Only that way Russia can deserve its position in international community and what is most important- in Slavic world.

Putin`s administration did a lot of to rebuild Russian strength/economy/social sphera/transition but on the field of image of Russia he failed in that moment when he accepted to behave according to savage rules of so called west.

I know, its not easy when you are overrun and, maybe i set too high standards for Russia. Maybe we Serbs expect some `idealism` from Russian side. Same idealism we would like to see in Poland, Czeska... to say in all Slavs.

Only when is really hard, one can demonstrate if one is worth enough


i always salute cooperation based on economic logic but remember, Slavs are gentleman’s too

They were cut off from the gas exactly after the moment when they have refused to pay for gas.


Do you evere been in Russia? If no, why you asseverate this fullish facts? Yes, may be people which live outside the big cities are less rich then mosovites or inhabitants of SPb., but offcourse they do not starve.


But it's not the reason to sit on someboby's neck

What about Lithuania?

neck? oh man, Serbs are in such a deep sh** that neck won`t be enough

Tell me, tell me exactly what you as Russian think that Russia immidiately can and must do to support Lusatian and Balkan Serbs?


Yes

what about monuments issue?

and what about Polish meat ban?

Why would Russia adopt in her policy pressure, violance and sanctions? Its perverse

If false West is perverse and manipulate with smaller countries that doesn`t mean that Russia need to do the same, to be perverse, because we know that its not normal to be perverse. If Russia go crazy who would be hope? USA, Arabia, Israel, Britain, Albania, NATO? God forbid!

Russia should consolidate and support true freedom, preservation of nature, tolerance and democracy in this world. But first evolve Russians!