Poland has paid £68 Million for helping UK in WW2

Tis the wisdom of the Ancient :)

I can't help but be impressed but the quality of some of the posts in this thread. Just goes to prove that it pays to pay attention to younger people and reaaly listen to them. Many people of my age dismiss them too easily.

Does Russia still refuse that they killed Polish soldiers at katyn??

I too learnt only through Enlish History. Some was picked up listening in on my parent's spirited discussions with acquantainces, where I should not have been and inevitably was chased away. Then I discovered books. "Prog after prog" - good,bad? To make a statement is easy, better to back it with facts- in Poland's case this is complex, takes explanation. All that was left to Poland was the truth, to gloss over or distort it is to take that too.

So sorry,forgot the g in English-apols.

Lesser evil.....?

I cant agree with that.
Germany now is a completely different country to what it was once was.
But at the time in ww2,germany did some terrible things,because they had that evil dictator - Hitler.

You see those news reels of jews going to the gas chambers they did not realize what was going to happen to them until it was too late and anyone else that hitler did not approve of.I found those news reels very upsetting...he wanted to rule europe and if you got in his way,then you would of paid with your life.

Put it this way....if hitler would of had his way and he won the war....i would of been killed for being gay and this world would be a very different place.we certainly would not be so free to debate topics like this.

The german people at the time did not want war.....Hitler deceived many countries.

I dont try to lead anyone to believe that the uk is a perfect country,far from it.In many ways the uk has alot to answer for....but we did not kill or gas people for being different.

At least Japan said sorry for what they did,but that does not make it ok....but they did show remorse.

And for the record,i did not say that to upset anyone.....it was my opinion based on some old news rees i saw on video someweeks ago.

You see i wanted to see some old footage of the ww1 and ww2

But i still have alot to learn from you all.

Jay, well spoken....upsetting some one aint he same as invading their country or slaughtering millions of people, you've got nothing to apologise for.....

I have a lot to learn too........as does everyone

Total utter hogwash Giles. Did you know that Clinton put an end to the ethnic murdering of the Muslims in Bosnia? Giles you are such an awesome internet gangster.


Still working on your secret fake story of what really happened in Bosnia. The US hated Muslims so they saved them from ethnic slaughter. Is this correct Giles?

Riff you just don't get it so there is no point try to explain. Sorry but I'm just not bothered enough to explain. I'm also assuming by your posts that you are under 25 years old.

Very briefly. Serbian nationalism threaten the emerging status quo in the former Yugoslavia. The KLA (Kosovan liberation Army) note the state department refered too them as terrosists, before the US backed them then they became "freedom" fighters. Incidently the KLA are very important in the transfer of heroin from Turkey into Europe(major US client state), from Afganistan. Where the US has its interests.

Nothing is black and white, the more you disturb the more rot you find.

I have alot of Serbian friends and have seen footage (private) of NATO plans bombing Serbian soft targets.
Listen don't think the Muslims weren't ethnically cleasing Serbs, they were.

Absolutely right- although Albert Spiel did show remorse at the Nuremberg Trials. Was it genuine- according to him it was , or to save his own skin? Still, at least the Germans took their punishment and in part atoned eg releasing masses of info regarding the atrocities and their part in the war via archives , libraries. The Russians, who should have been sitting in the same docks as the Germans happily took part in meting out punishment and never answered for their war crimes at Nuremberg. and covered up their own crimes- in comparison to Hitler, Hitler's pales significantly. Why do think Russia is not in the EU? Perhaps so they do not have to admit their atrocities and continue to be answerable to no-one.

I almost fell out of my chair laughing when I saw footage of Polish cavalry attacking German tanks with sabres and lances supposedly when Germany invaded. In fact, this German propanda film( You have to hand it to them their propanda was pretty good ) shot on and around Oct./November 1939 on the fields of Blonie( about 30 km west of Warsaw). The "Polish Cavalry" in fact German soldiers dressed in Polish uniforms were taught how to "attack" and fall from the horse without hurting themseves. All this was greedily swallowed up by the World Press as fact despite eye-witness accounts. One eye-witness? My Father- taken along by his Father.

What is true was that the Polish Cavalry did charge the German tanks on horseback with hastily bundled hand grenades, about 6 to a bundle called 'Philippines' which ruptured the caterpillar, effectively immobilizing a tank and making it a sitting duck for the good quality plentiful Polish Anti-tank guns.The German Tank Commander General Guderian etimated 15-20% German tank losses.He viewed the Polish Anti-tank Units with a high respect. Why? .........That would be another prog.

Hardly any people were killed only for that. There were more homos among nazis.

and the british army...

Relatively...but what about those who were mentally/physically handicapped, gypsies, romanies, belonged to the wrong political party, spoke out...and anyone and everyone who didn't fit in.....what.....houndreds of thousands...(?)..pitiful really that a whole nation either signed up or tacitly went along with this.......

It does not matter whether there was more homos,as you term it than nazis.....you dont kill people by any method simply for your own selfish ignorant reasons.

And what are you trying to prove ? That nazis were bad people ? Did I say they weren't.

Im not trying to prove anything.
like yourself,im just making a point......well at least we both agree on one thing.

Yes nothing is black and White and the Muslims were cleansing serbs. However the Murdering of the Muslims blewup on a huge scale and very fast paced. The main reason it was stopped was nobody wanted the mass slaughter and it was finally stopped by the US and Nato. The more you disturb the more rot you find game that you have been playing is very noble. If it was not for Giles society would not know about rot. As far as age goes you seem like a 4 year old saying "I'm telling". Pretend that your a gangster that likes to disturb.

The UK loan was £300million in 1945 £'s

after WW1, not many French, if any, gave a rats ass about the Polish. Harsh, but true. They were worried about their own country. It was the US President, can't belevie i forget his name right now, who came up with the idea of giving Poland back its independence with his 18 points. This was also where the idea of "The League of Nations" was born. That was rejected and after WW2 the UN was formed.

(i'm drawing a blank right now, can't remember whether it was 13 points or 18, or the President's name...srry) but the story is true. taught in US history classes to all 9th graders. very basic stuff here.

It was Woodrow Wilson, and it was 14 points not 18, nor 13. :)

PS: France actually was the biggest supporter of the idea of a fully sovereign and independent Poland. Of course the main reason why they did it wasn't because they felt sympathetic for the Polish nation, but rather because they wanted to weaken Germany and separate them from Bolshevik Russia... Still, their involvement can’t be forgotten. :)

Isn't that just speculating??....If you hadn't stopped these people, then who is to say the Germans or French or someone else wouldn't have??

Everything related to the so called "alternative history" is a pure speculation. :)

During a bombing raid in 1943 Britain killed 40,000 Germans in Hamberg in a single night. In 1945 another raid by Bomber Command on Dresden killed another 40,000 Germans.....Britain was responsible for killing most Germans during the Air Campaign, because of Air Marshal Harris philosophy of area bombing i.e total devastation.... to the American philosophy of precision i.e Didn't really cause much damage!!...I can already sense how envious you Poles are of us,..... judging by the hatred you have of that Country!!.......Also it was a British General Montgomery who planned the Normandy Invasion of France, and it was the 13 British, 4 Canadian and 1 Polish Division who destroyed all of the German Panzer Divisions in Normandy including the 6 elite SS Divisions in the area of Caen, which allowed the Americans to break out with almost no opposition, and encircle the German Army at Falaise. The remnants off which were destroyed mainly by the RAF.....Anielka now will you finally forgive Britain for cringing before the Germans??..... I've only quoted afew British statistics from ww 2 because I have come to learn how much the Poles adore statistics!!.

Poland was totally defeated in the war....So they have managed to invent endless statistics to explain why they were totally defeated!!

And don't bother with the usual Polish crap of...... 'If it wasn't for Poland we would all be speaking German'.....Because I know the real reason Britain doesn't speak German is thanks to the Royal Navy, Radar, and that.... Polish hate figure called Winston Churchill!!

I find some of the seething hatred expressed towards Britain on this site totally unjustified.....I think we did everything a Country like Britain could be expected to do!!....Anyone who disagrees....either hates us.... or knows F--K all about history!!

It was interesting at the beginning of the discussion . I don't know much about the WW 1, but I beleive the French Army towards the end of the war started deserting.......Does anyone know anymore about this??

No, It's because a few miles of water. Now get lost.

You people really do envious don't you Grzegorz.....What ever the F--k that means.

So what does it mean "totally defeated"? Do you actually know anything about the September 1939? Because I really doubt it...


Oh gosh, where to start.... OK, first of all we have to understand that there's no such thing as a friendship between two countries. There can be a friendship between Mr. X and Mr. Y, but never between two governments. We can only talk about interests here, and that's exactly what got together Poland and England in the second part of the 1930's.

Before that time English government had the politics not to engage into any closer relationships with the new-established Eastern countries. Actually at many occasions GB was acting against those states, like for example during the Polish-German border conflict over Silesia, where Britain took a determined stand in favor of Germans. Again, it didn't had anything to do with British attitude towards Poles. Just simply a stronger Poland meant a weaker Germany. A weaker Germany meant stronger France. Stronger France meant balance of power destabilization on the continent, and that was the last thing British government wanted to achieve. But there was also another reason why Europe needed a strong Germany. Bolshevik Russia

. It's hard to say when the west noticed the enormous danger from Stalin's side, but it is certain that Germany was suppose to be the last Western European line of defense. Now the game was to manipulate both nations into fight so that no French or English soldiers would lose their life’s. That was a very difficult task, a very risky game, where Poland was just a mere stooge. Just as the rest of the newborn countries, their role was to eventually give land for the Germans in order to appease them, just like it happened with Czechoslovakia.

A very important date and event is October 1925 and the treaties of Locarno, where France and Belgium sign an agreement with Germany authorized their boundaries. Nothing was said about German eastern borders. It was a very delicate way to show Germans their future direction of expansion, as far away from the west as possible.

Situation got complicated on the 24th October 1938. It is a date when polish ambassador, Józef Lipski, met with the German minister of foreign affairs, Jochim von Ribbentrop, and the topic was Poland and Germany signing an agreement. This situation caused an enormous panic in British government. With East German border secure they could easily invade France, which ment a step closer to England. That is why Brits (notice that when I say brits I don't think about British common people) started to make promises that were impossible to fulfill, like those about promising to attack Germany in case of their aggression towards Poland. British army was small and weak at that time. In no means ready for an invasion. Brits and French never thought serious about attacking Germans. They were hoping that maybe Hitler will get scared and give it a rest. Unfortunately the bluff didn't work. On the first sep 1939 Germany invades Poland. Tough situation, although still, both France and Great Britain, had the chance to withdrawn from the agreement. Actually it was what Hitler was pretty sure of. He hoped that they would do it, that way leaving this Polish-German conflict as a local one. Brits and French really surprised him this time. Of course they didn't send their troops to fight. They didn't want to risk loosing them outside their land. The times were getting tough and every man was needed in their homeland. Poland fought alone for a month. Never capitulated.

This brings us to the first question, was Poland betrayed? As I said before, it all comes down to how you want to interpret the facts. I'm of an opinion that we were being played, but not betrayed. But than again every one is entitled to his own opinion. :)

To be continued....

PS: Sorry for errors. Hope you all will forgive me. :)

Whatever. Poland isn't just lucky enough to be an island and unlucky to have Germany to the West and Russia/(used to have Soviet Union) to the East.

Did you know that after evacuation of allied troops from Dunkerque, there were only 2 (TWO) tanks (except those in museums) in Britain ?


Erors fogirven :)

I do not remember seeing any polish statistics on poland being totally defeated. All goverments love statistics for some stupid reason, and most of the time they do not mean ****, or are later proved wrong. Just like you are wrong below.


If britian did so much navy, radar and such, why were they begging the U.S to enter the war? Britian did ****!!!

I like Brits especially in movies. Their English accent makes English sound regal. I have never met a hateful Brit, ever.

Hmm guess I haven't been reading enough.

I must have alsheimer's too, couldn't remember 14 Points ( I'm a dumbass :) )

Poor old Polska still such are tread do some of you, it gives me such a plesure to know it, and it is quite inpowering to say the least. Some of you should writte new history

Matyjasz

Thanks very much for the interesting info which I think most Brits wouldn't know much about, so it was interesting to hear your side of the story, but I think you agree with me that Britain was not completely responsible for Polands problems before or after the war, which is the accusation I have noticed alot of Poles make on this site.

Like you say I think Polands main problem was being stuck between two aggressive regimes rather than Britain or France betraying Poland.
The next most common accussation you hear against us is.... ' If Britain wasn't an Island or if it wasn't for America' etc etc the same would have happened to us. Well that might have been the case, but we can't change our geographical location, but if you look at the part this small Island did play.... There is not many people who can seriously accuse us of not doing our bit and doing a decent job of it.

[quote=Matyjasz] To be continued....

I look forward to hearing the rest.......