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Where do Polands non Jewish victims go?


Harry  
19 Mar 2008 /  #31
This is not a claim, this is a fact. Or are you saying the 22,000/25,000 in "Katyn" was the work of Germany

Was the population of Poland 22,000/25,000?

Why not just start a thread about how much you hate Jews instead of posting threads like this one?
OP celinski 31 | 1,258  
19 Mar 2008 /  #32
Ethnic Cleansing and Soviet Crimes Against Humanity
by Ataullah Bogdan Kopanski

During the period from 1939 to 1949, the Soviets committed mass murders of many peoples. Among those holocausted were: Baltic, Slavic, Caucasian and Turkic people, eastern Germans, and Poles.

vip.latnet.lv/LPRA/ethnic_cleansing.htm

22,000/25,000?

This is just "Katyn" so far there are other graves that have yet to be located, there is referance to them but Russia has not disclosed as of this date.

Why not just start a thread about how much you hate Jews

Where do you ever see me say anything about the dislike of "Jewish". You don't, I don't even bring up what they did to the Polish people in 1941. But I can if you like.

GENOCIDE
COMMITTED BY UKRAINIAN NATIONALISTS
ON THE POLISH POPULATION OF VOLHYNIA
DURING WORLD WAR II (1939-1945)

If you recall the "Jewish" were also killing "Polish".

genocide007.webpark.pl/przedmowa_english.htm

Like I said, I do not speak down on "Jewish" but you are saying the "Jewish" suffering should be all that matters and I am saying no you forget this is "Poland's People". "Jewish Holocaust" uses "Stalin" and "Soviet" abuse but just for the "Jewish" and I say no more, the other victims are free to join you now.
Harry  
19 Mar 2008 /  #33
Like I said, I do not speak down on "Jewish" but you are saying the "Jewish" suffering should be all that matters and I am saying no you forget this is "Poland's People". "Jewish Holocaust" uses "Stalin" and "Soviet" abuse but just for the "Jewish" and I say no more, the other victims are free to join you now.

Actually, forget it. I can't be bothered to try and work out what you mean by this drivel.
OP celinski 31 | 1,258  
19 Mar 2008 /  #34
The Anders Army (officially the Polish Armed Forces in the Soviet Union) was the Polish army-in-exile that was raised in the Soviet Union in 1941-42. Its recruits consisted of Polish exiles who had been released from Soviet prison camps following the German invasion of the USSR on June 22, 1941, and the signing of the Soviet-Polish Reconciliation Agreement in London on July 30, 1941.

Take note: This is from your files in the "Holocaust Museum" and it is "Soviet prison camps" and yes, my family were here.

ushmm.org/uia-cgi/uia_doc/photos/1143?hr=null

As I stated I do not hate Jewish and will always consider them my equal, just not better. Carol
Lady in red  
19 Mar 2008 /  #35
As I stated I do not hate Jewish and will always consider them my equal, just not better. Carol

Well said Carol.
OP celinski 31 | 1,258  
19 Mar 2008 /  #36
Thank you we are stating to be heard a museum in Minnesota has added our families let me know if you have a story to add.

chgs.umn.edu/webBib/links/
EbonyandBathory 5 | 249  
19 Mar 2008 /  #37
One of history's greatest travesties is that Poland's suffering during the war is swept under the rug. It's important that we remember the Jewish victim's of the Holocaust but to spread the idea that Poles were sitting back drinking tea watching it all happen is rubbish. And I feel that, in America at least, this is a common conception. I was certainly taught this way.

To the point of the post, I do not believe that Poles should be lumped into the Holocaust. The Holocaust is pointedly Jewish. The point of Hitler's murder machine was to destroy Jews, Poles were collateral damage. There is no doubt that Hitler and Stalin colluded to murder Poles, but this should be held seperate. There should be mentions in Holocaust Museums, but, despite the numbers, it is with Jews, not Poles, that the severity of the hatred is directed.

you didnt share the holocaust then. dont try to share it now.

If find this point to be small-minded. I've already stated that the Holocaust is a Jewish phenomena, but the think that the pain that was launched at one sector of Polish society was not felt by the other is absurd. The Holocaust was forced onto Poland and its people, to think that Polish Jewry and Polish gentiles were not intertwined into this senseless violence is irresponsible. The hatred and death of the Holocaust, while decidely turned on Jews, was burdened by all of Poland.
OP celinski 31 | 1,258  
19 Mar 2008 /  #38
Hitler and Stalin colluded to murder Poles

The reason being is "Jewish" were free to define "Holocaust" while their neighbors were silenced by "Stalin and Soviet and Russia" until 1989. With Poland being free to speak and the reception they are recieving from "Jewish" it is no wonder there is tension in the air. I personally never thought when this day came "Poland" would be treated as if the full truth was a compitition and with "Jewish attorneys" fine tweeking the meaning it's going to take some doing for all side to be heard. But IMO history today across a nation is distorted, incomplete and mis stated to meet one groups needs.
isthatu 3 | 1,164  
19 Mar 2008 /  #39
OMG,Contraband,You are the funniest man ever,so wrong on so many levels.A total shlamiel........

You and Celinski can keep talking about Hitler all you want. This thread is about the victims of Stalin.

er,no its not.....Thread title; Where do Polands non Jewish victims go.".....Ok,Im not 100% on what that actually means in itself,but,it definatly does not state Stalins victims now does it H'? And,btw harry,you just made yourself look a prat,not to mention a stooge of a very marginal "jewish" idea that they were the only victims........Jewish survivors of the Holocaust in the UK have something rather different to say,all work tirelessly to promote the fact that Jews,Gypsys,Communists,Disabled people etc etc e bloodytc are included in the memorials. I realy dont know where all this revisionist right wing jewish BS is coming from. Is it the States or Israel? Wherever,its not coming from survivors,its coming from those with a hidden agenda from a much younger generation......shame on you all.
OP celinski 31 | 1,258  
19 Mar 2008 /  #40
Is it the States or Israel? Wherever,its not coming from survivors,its coming from those with a hidden agenda from a much younger generation......shame on you all.

USA I must say has a billion dollar business I'm ashamed to say. Shame comes from changing history to fit your story. Yes, I will say "Stalin" should be right there next to "Hitler" and the full story of how the "Holocaust" attorneys have been able to use innocent "Jewish" families that were victim's of both dictators along with the "Forgotten Polish victims". Look at where the money ends up, not with the "Jewish" families they are still in line as Swiss back accounts will tell you. So the "Holocaust" name is just that. It changes like you change your socks.
isthatu 3 | 1,164  
19 Mar 2008 /  #41
Hitlers first victims were not Jewish,His first victims were trade union members and members of the CPG,if some of those people happened to be jewish this was secondry.So suck on dat.

I realy dont understand the mentality displayed by that contraband dude,its like reveling in victimhood,whats all that about,why do these whinging nancyboys never talk about the Jews that fought back? All the jewish underground members,the countless thousands of Jews that served in the allied armies(or the few hundred that served under false papers in the german forces,no,not loony conspiricy,they had good commanders and were hidden by them.) or the thousands of jews in the soviet forces? His type never want to play up the undoubted heroics of many thousands of jews,they always want to wallow in the very real misary.....from my limited collage psychology even I can see this as sign of ,well,issues....
Mali - | 300  
19 Mar 2008 /  #42
yeah I found it odd also. "Reveling in victimhood" is a great way to put it.

I'm not a big fan of talking about history or trying to glorify nations but to pretend that one group of people were solely victimized while the others were nothing more than incidental casualties of the war is simply irresponsible.

As I stated I do not hate Jewish and will always consider them my equal, just not better. Carol

Well said Carol.
WAKEUPPOLAND2 - | 35  
19 Mar 2008 /  #43
CELINSKI,
WOW!!! I can see that you have been doing your research. You are WAKING UP well done!

Consider them your equal as we are all Gods Children and equal in his eyes, but be aware that to a JEW you are ONLY a GOYIM. A GOYIM is considered subhman according to the TALMUD:

From Baba Mezia 114b: ""A Jewish priest was standing in a graveyard. When asked why he was standing there in apparent violation of the Mosaic law, he replied that it was permissible, since the law only prohibits Jews from coming into contact with the graves of humans (Adamites), and he was standing in a gentile graveyard. For it has been taught by Rabbi Simon ben Yohai: 'The graves of gentiles [goyim] do not defile. For it is written, 'And ye my flock, the flock of my pastures, are men (Adam)' (Ezekiel 34:31); only ye are designated men (Adam)."

CONTRABAND & HARRY,
Your attitudes clearly illustrate your TALMUDIC stance on GOYIM. No wonder Hitler got p**ed off with you lot.
isthatu 3 | 1,164  
19 Mar 2008 /  #44
Go feed yer alsations nazi boy.......
WAKEUPPOLAND2 - | 35  
19 Mar 2008 /  #45
nazi boy.......

What are you talking about ?

You don't think Hitler was p**d of with Jews?

Obviuously he was, right ?
Uncle Bob 2 | 82  
19 Mar 2008 /  #46
I realy dont understand the mentality displayed by that contraband dude

yeah I found it odd also.

Oh, I understand this guy's mentality and know exactly where he is coming from. I dont agree with him for one minute. He expemplifies the counter argument of this thread; the reluctance of Jews to accept that they aren't the only ones to have suffered.

He will be the first to cry 'anti-semetic' at anything he perceives as critical of his people whilst failing to recognise that he represents the very attitude that so many people find offensive of the Jews. Unfortunate, but true.
EbonyandBathory 5 | 249  
19 Mar 2008 /  #47
As a Polish Catholic, I'm no stranger to the lack of recognition for Poland's gentiles suffering during the war and Holocaust, and I'm pleased to see the strong convictions to remedy that being expressed on this site, but what concerns me is the level of separatism and devision that I'm also hearing. I feel that we all suffered, Poles and Christians, in fact, nearly the whole world suffered. Who cares "who suffered more?" One of the many horrible points of the Holocaust was to divide people and to sort people into categories. Let's not continue that now that the horror is over.

I know Polish gentiles just want recognition, and I'm all for that believe me, and I certainly know that this is a touchy subject from all sides, but let's not attack each other over who hurts the most. I'm not directing this at anyone in particular and I applaud nearly all the opinions on this thread (within reason) as valid, but it's important to remember that while Polish gentiles had to suffer under forced Communism for a further 50 years after the gas chambers were destroyed, they were still allowed to exist, something that Polish Jewry for the most part, was not.
WAKEUPPOLAND2 - | 35  
20 Mar 2008 /  #48
He will be the first to cry 'anti-semetic' at anything he perceives as critical of his people whilst failing to recognise that he represents the very attitude that so many people find offensive of the Jews. Unfortunate, but true.

Thanks Uncle Bob for seeing the obvious.

IT t seems that ISTHATU is too busy tryng to psychoanalyze the poor fella and has missed the point I was making.
Ozi Dan 26 | 569  
20 Mar 2008 /  #49
In my respectful view, I see no need to have any particular tag to give for the deaths of Poles in WW2. If Polish Jews have had success in the marketing of their genocide under the Holocaust tag, then kudos to them. The Polish situation is known to those that matter and the people that matter who don't know will apply research and commonsense in establishing the circumstances, rather than forming a lopsided view based on a descriptive noun.

In any event, if a tag was adopted, where does one draw the line inasmuch as what is a Holocaust victim - remember, a lot of Poles died fighting and I sure wouldn't want my grandfather and granduncle lumped in as Holocaust victims.
OP celinski 31 | 1,258  
20 Mar 2008 /  #50
The Polish situation is known to those that matter and the people that matter who don't know will apply research and commonsense in establishing the circumstances,

I think when it comes to finding lost family members it makes a big differance. Look at the billions of dollars in the "Holocaust". They have documentation from area's our families lived and it really does alter the history the way it's written. As I read some of the stories in the USHMM.org I see the parts of the story no one is aware of unless they have studied "Soviet" aspect of it.

It is also a law that children in the USA learn about the "Holocaust" K-8. If my children are to be taught I want them to know the full story, not just one version. Each country in Europe has a different view.

Another thing that many don't understand, although "Stalin" had more victim's than "Hitler", Russia has never been held responsable, whereas Germany has had to pay compensation. Not to mention the fact that "Stalin" killed on a wider scale, his own people included. Yet look at the way Pres. Putin can speak of "Stalin" as a great leader. Do you think they could claim "Hitler" as a great leader without nation wide outrage?
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
20 Mar 2008 /  #51
They go to Biedronka
Harry  
20 Mar 2008 /  #52
er,no its not.....Thread title; Where do Polands non Jewish victims go.".....Ok,Im not 100% on what that actually means in itself,but,it definatly does not state Stalins victims now does it H'?

Read the first sentence of the thread: "Should "Polands People" that were victim's of "Stalin, Soviets" be included in the "Holocaust"?"

And,btw harry,you just made yourself look a prat,not to mention a stooge of a very marginal "jewish" idea that they were the only victims........Jewish survivors of the Holocaust in the UK have something rather different to say,all work tirelessly to promote the fact that Jews,Gypsys,Communists,Disabled people etc etc e bloodytc are included in the memorials.

Where did I say that only Jews were the focus of the Holocaust? I said that the Poles were "focus of a Stalinist policy which called for their deaths."

BTW: you left off the red triangles and the purple triangles in the death camps: Freemasons and Jehovah's Witnesses. And the correct word is Roma, not Gypsies. They do not consider themselves to have been part of the Holocaust, they refer to it as the Porajmos.
Ozi Dan 26 | 569  
20 Mar 2008 /  #53
It is also a law that children in the USA learn about the "Holocaust" K-8.

I'm surprised that this is the curriculum. Imagine the satisfaction your children will have when they are able to stand up proudly and correct their teacher when a fallacy of Polish history is put to the class as truth - believe me, it's a good feeling.
OP celinski 31 | 1,258  
20 Mar 2008 /  #54
Where did I say that only Jews were the focus of the Holocaust?

In the USA when "Holocaust" is brought up the majority will tell you it was "Jewish" victims. It is rather sad, maybe because USA was allied with "Stalin" and the shame helped to keep this silent. Plus the fact that "Poland" could not speak of it in "Communist Polands" and the ones that came here were trying to hold jobs and could not communicate.
isthatu 3 | 1,164  
20 Mar 2008 /  #55
Lol harry,I see why so many people dont like you on here......

BTW: you left off the red triangles and the purple triangles in the death camps: Freemasons and Jehovah's Witnesses. And the correct word is Roma, not Gypsies. They do not consider themselves to have been part of the Holocaust, they refer to it as the Porajmos.

If you had actually read what I put you will have noticed the "etc etc etc" after my very short list of victims.Ps,the "correct word" is not Roma.....flump....the Rom are just one branch,the other major branch were the sinti,and collectivly,or so my GYPSY mates tell me,as long as you dont call them GYPOS then gypsy is fine as a shorthand title....so dont come and lecture me about the Devouring,seeing as close friends lost loved ones too it!And You are so wrong,they ,the Roma Sinti Gypsy have been campaigning for decades to be included in the "holocaust".......stick to writing your ickle e mag mate.
Uncle Bob 2 | 82  
20 Mar 2008 /  #56
And the correct word is Roma, not Gypsies.

Err, no. The correct word is fookin pikey
isthatu 3 | 1,164  
20 Mar 2008 /  #57
lol,even I can chuckle at that.....'cept you miss the distinction between a bunch of Irish tinkers and the genuine Gypsies :)
Harry  
21 Mar 2008 /  #58
Ps,the "correct word" is not Roma.....flump....the Rom are just one branch,the other major branch were the sinti,and collectivly,or so my GYPSY mates tell me,as long as you dont call them GYPOS then gypsy is fine as a shorthand title....

As a matter of fact, Roma is the noun to describe the five main groups. Sinti are generally considered to be one of those five groups. Some Sinti disagree and claim that they are not Roma. However, all the Roma and Sinti rights workers I've met (and that's a fair few because Warsaw in HQ to the ODIHR of the OSCE) consider gypsy as offensive.
WAKEUPPOLAND2 - | 35  
23 Mar 2008 /  #59
If you recall the "Jewish" were also killing "Polish".

Like I said, I do not speak down on "Jewish" but you are saying the "Jewish" suffering should be all that matters and I am saying no you forget this is "Poland's People". "Jewish Holocaust" uses "Stalin" and "Soviet" abuse but just for the "Jewish" and I say no more, the other victims are free to join you now.

Celinski et all,
below is interesting short article from Israeli YNET news:
Stalin's Jews
"We mustn't forget that some of greatest murderers of modern times were Jewish"


ynetnews.com/articles/0%2C7340%2CL-3342999%2C00.html

Remember some of the main henchmen of Stalin's Red Terror were of Jewish background:
Genrikh Yagoda
Nikolai Ivanovich Yezhov
Lazar Kaganovich
Leonid Reichman


Nobody talks about these mass murderers....WHY ?
El Gato 4 | 351  
23 Mar 2008 /  #60
They were busy partying on the "Aryan" side.

Yes...you obviously know your history. Jews were loaded onto trains going west, Poles onto trains going east. Jews went to concentration camps, Poles to gulags.

Both of the places were tools of the devil, designed to obliterate a group of people. Equal evils committed by different groups. Nazis killed Jews and Poles, predominantly Jews, but Russians killed Poless and Jews, predominantly Poles.

Polish sons with blonde hair and blue eyes were taken from their mothers and given to German parents. For years, even before WW2, Russians practiced "Russification" of all people under their control, including Poles.

The Holocaust should represent all evil deeds committed in the 30s and 40s. No one group should claim they were the only ones affected. Anything not Aryan was believed to be sub-human by the Nazis; that means Slavs, gypsies, Jews, etc.

Anything not white and Christian was expendible to them and were eventually going to be destroyed if they had their way.

Jews were not the only victims. Poles were not the only victims. The museums should be dedicated to all victims and to those who fought bravely to save them.

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