Poland and Hungary in September 1939

You're just jealous Nathan, your country has always been our bastard child, desperately wanting to be treated as equals and never anything more than peasants on our fields or the enemies on the receiving end of our military and at the same time we've been able to develop such a relationship with Hungary.


Good point, this however doesnt change the fact that when Hungary allied themselves with the Teutonic Knights the crushing majority of the nobles blatantly refused to fight Poland.

The king had to hire mercenaries and peasants, when they invaded and lost, Poland reinvaded Hungary without burning a single village, such examples abound, the fact is that whatever conflicts we had they are instantly forgotten, tell me if Germany has such a relationship with anyone (or for that matter any other country).

Where are the Slovaks? I don't see them in between? Conquered by Hungarians? Buffer zone, you might say. It wasn't a border as such. It was territorires inhabited by the Slovaks, not Hungarians on one side and Poles - on the other, at least in considerable amount, so that it could have been considered a prevailing majority. Both sides were busy splitting territories to the east as well.

Torq, I am not jealous at all. I am happy that there is love in the world ;) But I agree with all I have quoted from BB. Everything is good till all is good.

Homo homini lupus est.

Who? You surely meant Upper Hungarians? ;)


Hungarus Poloni lupus non est et Polonus Hungari lupus non est!

*Yeah, I know my Latin sucks - any classical philologists out there,
feel free to correct me*

We have eternal friendships with Iceland...Greenland...and any other country far away and not in our sphere of interest. :):):)

It's a common phenomenon not only in Europe that direct neighbours have more difficult histories with each other than with those who don't share a border.

I dare to predict that if you had Hungary vying for the same sphere of influence as Poland you WOULD more differentiate in your love and friendship! :)


Yeah...a curious country...
Hungary allies itself with the Teutonic Knights but the Hungarians don't like it.
Hungary is part of the Habsburg Empire which took a big chunk out of Poland but the Poles are holding only grudges against the Germans and the Russians.

Hungary allies itself two times in both world wars with Germany but of course the Hungarians hate it again and secretly cheer the Poles and again Poles only blame the Germans and the Russians...

What a history! :)

If I were Pole I would ask the Hungarians to decide once and for all what they really want...

Really?

So Icelandic parliament established the official day of Icelandic-German friendship
and German parliament did the same? (as Hungarian and Polish parliaments did).

So Iceland and Germany have 1000 years history of political, military and cultural
co-operation? So there is an ancient saying in Icelandic and German languages
which says that Icelanders and Germans are brothers.

Interesting - links please.

*rolls eyes amused by the evident BB's jealousy of the Eternal-Polish-Hungarian-Friendship*


I would only like to remind you that Hungary was for centuries occupied by Hasburgs
just as Poland was occupied by them. It was Austria not Austro-Hungary who
partitioned Poland. The last - third partition, took place in 1795. Hungarians gained
partial independence only in 1867 when Austro-Hungary was officialy created. Before
that it was Austria occupying Hungary.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austria%E2%80%93Hungary

Sure!
Icelandic Snorri Sturluson is the poet who wrote the Edda, the "bible" for all norse people if you so want! :)


Scandinavia/Iceland etc. is the cradle of the germanic peoples

They were there hiding in peace. :) We shouldn't start an argument on things like that. Nationality did not stir such a fuss up until about the 18th century. "One nation within one border" is a completely stupid, modern, made-up rule. Despite the atrocities ("homo homini lupus est", of course), Central-Europe was still a great example of different peoples living together without losing their identity (unlike the mind-altering, "melting-pot" way of the US...), till the "Great War" finally destroyed it.


I wouldn't say that. Of course, it wasn't always a pleasant situation, but the Habsburgs were the ones who took back our lost territories. Hungarians don't admit it even these days, but without the help of the Habsburg dynasty, the Carpathian Basin would've become a balkanic wasteland.

And they were always quite fair towards their Polish citizens as I said in the post
no. 28 of this thread.



I agree completely. Austro-Hungary was a very decent country and I consider
the dissolution of it to be one of the biggest mistakes after the WW1 (and that
is coming from a Pole whose entire family both from mother's and father's side
comes from the lands of Austrian partition).

Sokrates wants love, let him be. Eternal love. I haven't thought it would stir fear in his frightened soul so much. Don't be scared, love will be there, shhhh...(Sokrates closed his eye-lids with a smile and fell asleep)


Hey Receiving end field-runner, can you negate my statement which you are quoting? Do Poland and Hungary have common border? I like when you said "blatantly refused" ;) It sounds like they were not aware where they are and what they are doing.

“With the Nazis, we lose our lives; with the Soviets, we lose our souls.... If I found my army between the Nazis and the Soviets, I would attack in both directions.”

-Polish General Anders to American General Patton.

No of course not, that makes this relationship even more impressive.

Still a craddle and Norwegians and scandivanians in general don't give a **** about Germans I really mean it I have countered anti-German propaganda to be more harsh in Scandinavia then in Poland.


Yes for all Norse, Germans are Germanic!
Keep away mixing coltures!! ;(


I am soo gonna memorize that one!

LOL

So much for...

Yes, Torqi...it was meant as a joke!

The same joke as your "eternal friendship" with Hungary is.
There is no such a thing between nations, can't be...only between people.
And of course...peoples who don't share a border, suffer rarely any conflicts with each other of course have a a more favourable view of each other...only logically (and only as long as it lasts)

(But even then in times of decisions Hungary again and again decided to side with the Germans).
I really wonder about your rose-tinted view...
Germans are related to the Scandinavians, many English, many Americans, Dutch etc...we are from the same tribe, the same family...didn't stop us from fighting each other if interests clashed.

Germany, Great Britain, USA - all big, important, influential countries (at the time of their clashes)
That is normal and common across history...what you dream of is not normal and won't hold up if pushes come to shove once Poland get's mightier or Hungary get's more powerful. The current alliance between two weak countries won't hold.


Man Grunwald, you are a Pole who thinks german culture consists of beer and the Octoberfest...keep your comments out!
Did you ever read the Edda? I highly doubt it!

May I remind Grunwald that the Norwegians are the joke of the Swedens??? Now that is a relationship - worse than the Germans and the Dutch!

Can it be because both share a border and some unhappy history???

You wish! I am Norwegian/Pole

I have read it some parts of it!
And other sagaer they are forced to read in School

I remember also some Danish-German problems with German street names in Danish city's or town's. Scandinavians have maybe some common anscestry or 100% sure. But it doesn't mean they generally like Germans! Look at Russia vs other slavic nations?

Many in Norway have a high definition of Germans as nazi, when I think of Germans then yes I think


But many of my other country mates also think that but also at the same level as nazi and hitler. I wish you could give me a fella that isn't german or indian who would say that schwastika isn't german

BB- May I remind Grunwald that the Norwegians are the joke of the Swedens??? Now that is a relationship - worse than the Germans and the Dutch! LOL

Can it be because both share a border and some unhappy history??? wink

No that's a bit wrong, you talking about Sweed, Norwegian, Dane jokes? Or general negative attitude? Yeah, in Scandinavia it was mostly Scandinavians vs Scandinavians, first non-Scandinavian intruder to Scandinavia was III Reich so...

As I said!
You are a mix...so keep out! :)

Yes and Swedens think you are nothing but fallovers and traitors and weaklings (Quisling)...
Germanic tribes always b*tich between each other...nothing new here.


Man, that is exactly what I try to prove here!
Scandinavians can't even stand each other.
If not even family "loves" each other unconditionally but clashes if interests come into conflict how can unrelated people "eternal love" each other even if a conflict should arose???

Yeah and Norwegians think they generally are stupid and traitors! xD (1940)
The stupid part is of a different thing

Sweeds are not the only ones of thinking that Quisling bad thing, Norway.
If they think he can legally represent Norway in any way well, that's their problem xD

BB- Man, that is exactly what I try to prove here!
If not even family "loves" each other unconditionally but clashes if interests come into conflict how can unrelated people "eternal love" each other even when a conflict should arose???

Becaouse there are facts, it happened and is happening, Hungary-Poland
Something close to it may be Serbia-Russia maybe or for that sake Norway- Denmark
I have allways said that Danes were the worst and occupied as the worst and all! But all my Norwegian friends think Sweeds were the worst xD

It is becaouse of the Danes that our language is divided hello?

BB- Scandinavians can't even stand each other.
Ehrm, we do stand each other... It's not like Poland-Russia coflict or any other...
You know how Norway got their independence? Without any bloodshed! (1905)
And you say can't stand each other? How is it possible that Scandinavians don't have any problems with each other today? Also their monarchs somehow tolerate each other very well!

Back to the topic!
Hungary-Poland relations are to be said very special cause it had borders! (The states) that ment they could have some interest conflicts but they somehow didn't have any of that!

What is happening?
I don't see big times of decisons...

I will wait for the first Hungary-Poland conflict of interest and we will see how that is handled by both...right? Right!


Well...as I learnt they had at least three conflicts in their past where Hungary choose not the "loved" polish side but the german side to ally and fight with (Teutonic Order/WW1/WW2).

You can whitewash this as much as you want but it doesn't change the facts!
At least 3 examples where the interests differed and the decisons were made accordingly...something fully common and normal, as it was to be expected.

SLovakia? Somehow they didn't fight each other over it :)

You mean that?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovakia


Or this?


I dunno...but Hungary's history shares much more with the Germans than with Poles for example!

Somehow I don't remember Poland nor Hungary to excist at that time and what has some Austrian-Hungarian conflict to do with it?

...More than 80,000 Hungarians[22] and 32,000 Germans[23] were forced to leave Slovakia, in a series of population transfers initiated by the Allies at the Potsdam Conference.[24] This expulsion is still a source of tension between Slovakia and Hungary.[25] ...

I dunno...but Hungary's history shares much more with the Germans than with Poles for example!

Somehow I can't understand that thing you presented me, were the Slovaks backed by Poles? If so then it's a different matter. I can't think of Poland questioning Hungarians right to Slovakia until Slovakias excistence

Well...I wondered too as you presented Slovakia as a kind of evidence...so I googled...


Well..Czechoslovakia was a child of the Treaty of Versailles/Trianon (those treaties which robbed Germany and Hungary), the same as Poland.
I would have thought Poland would muster some sympathy for the Czechs and Slovaks...:)

Well, seeing as Czechs backstabbed us when we were busy fighting the Russian
invasion and that Slovaks invaded Poland alongside Germany in 1939, I really can't
see where that sympathy should come from.

I ment middle ages etc, Poland had Slovakia as a vassal then later Hungary had it. They didn't fight each other over it. That was my point!

Somehow they maybe did that until it was known of Czech-Russian co-operation and Czech conflict with Hungary. I am no excpert in that area but, Czechs are somehow very diffierent then Poles/Hungarians. The fundement of the eternal friendship was from the middle ages later it got blessed forever by co-operational uprisings.

When was it polish? The Great Moravian Empire was polish???
Wiki says afterwards it was part of the hungarian Kingdom for nearly a millennia..


You mean like the uprisings against the commies in Berlin and Budapest?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Revolution_of_1848

The Hungarian Revolution of 1848 was one of many revolutions that year and closely linked to other revolutions of 1848 in the Habsburg areas. The revolution in Hungary grew into a war for independence from Habsburg rule.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pole,_Hungarian,_two_good_friends

In the Hungarian Revolution of 1848 there was a notable Polish general Józef Bem who became a national hero both in Hungary and Poland.


Can't remember Poland ever struggling much to get it back? Cause it never happened

Yes?
Germany too had a revolution in 1848 (but mainly against France)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutions_of_1848_in_the_German_states


Jozef Bem...aha :)


Because it wasn't polish...

Sorry Grunwald, I don't see anything special.
You will find such and similiar stories in lot's of european countries...we intermingled and interacted with each other since the first European set foot on this continent.

:)

Sorry but nationalism isn't the only type of legal state idea or how a country should be.
For you it may be totally wrong for Poland to have any interesst in that area becaouse Polish people doesn't live there. Still some countires specially in thoose times (Think England vs Freance) didn't think nation but cash or wish of where they wanted to belong to.

Somehow Poland had Slovakia under their rule and nobody would object of Poland trying to get it back at thoose times. It was normal with such attitude, somehow the Hungarians had it for millenia as you said it.

BB-
Yes?
Germany too had a revolution in 1848
I know but is it my fault that Germany never prioritized to inform people about it?
Or was the people unaware of it?
Somehow Hungarians remember and are gratefull for Polish help in their uprising. Are the Germans feeling the same?

Well...YOU called it polish and used it as a proof of the "eternal friendship" with Hungary.
I just showed that it wasn't even polish in these times...and Hungary conquered it rather slowly.
No need and no time to fight over it for Poland.

If that is the fundament of your "eternal" polish-hungarian friendship it is a rather weak one.