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Should Germany claim to be the victims in Poland?


isthatu  3 | 1164  
16 Jan 2008 /  #451
Like I said, the only thing needed to take the Brits out would be a blockade....

Which you tried ,and indead failed to do. The U boat fleet came very close ,but not close enough.

Don't believe your war movies to much...a Germany without having to concentrate on Russia and you without the help you got from the US....just be fair and you would say so yourself..no chance!

I dont argue with this point one bit. It was the world rising up to stop the nazis that cracked the nut. Still we did hold out pretty much alone(with dribs and drabs of allies) and did indeed kick rommels arse all the way back to berlin.

There is nothing shameful about it....your island IS brave but very limited if you would have to stand all on your own!

Thats the problem the hun never understood,"we" would never have to stand alone,we new we could count on the help of the Dominions and the help from our other,european allies/fellow travlers was an added bonus and one that every educated briton is eternaly greatfull for.
matthias  3 | 429  
16 Jan 2008 /  #452
First Southern the comment that when Germany attacked Russia their was only one front. That's partially true. Britain was not yet defeated, so Germany still needed to concentrate some forces in the west in case Britain counterattacked. So Hitler was not able to concentrate all his forces on Russia. Also to answer bratwurst UK had a strong navy, so it would not be so easy to put a blockade on the UK and somewhat powerful airforce.
Bratwurst Boy  8 | 11710  
16 Jan 2008 /  #453
But the question was: "Who was most important for the Allies to win WWII"

So....without the US and Russia the Brit's wouldn't had stood a chance against a victorious Germany with an Europe of conquered/allied/collaborating nations.

But the US or Russia didn't need a GB that much...it's an easy calculation actually and no need to get all huffy and puffy!

Also to answer bratwurst UK had a strong navy, so it would not be so easy to put a blockade on the UK and somewhat powerful airforce.

No...surely not easy!

But the german navy would grew (think more Bismarcks) and there was the wolf packs prowling the sea.
Then there would be a starving Great Britain...starving not only in food but also in materials, ammunition....I think it's hard to hold out for long when every ship destroyed or every fighter shot down can't be repaired or replaced anymore!

The Germans would just have to wait actually....

PS: And just imagine our Luftwaffe which mostly nearly the whole time was busy in Russia fighting against GB not Russia....
isthatu  3 | 1164  
16 Jan 2008 /  #454
The USA wouldnt have even entered the war had it not been for britain staying in the fight......your argument/question is therefore meaningless

the Brit's wouldn't had stood a chance against a victorious Germany with an Europe of conquered/allied/collaborating nations.

Sorry,if this was true,why am I not speaking German then? USA,enters war on December the 11th 1941,only after silly tasch declares war.the hun had from june 6th 1940 to febuary 1942(when first US units arrived in UK ) to "kick our arses" and failed miserably. Face it, gitler never came close to subjuing the British nation and never would have.Even if some hun troops had crossed the channel "Britain"( govt,armed forces high command,royals etc) would have essentially upped sticks and moved to Canada where all our gold was.
Bratwurst Boy  8 | 11710  
16 Jan 2008 /  #455
The USA wouldnt have even entered the war had it not been for britain staying in the fight......your argument/question is therefore meaningless

What makes you so convinced?
It was in the best interest of the US to make sure Germany would NOT be domineering the continent....

And for the rest....english IS very close to German! :)
isthatu  3 | 1164  
16 Jan 2008 /  #456
PS: And just imagine our Luftwaffe which mostly nearly the whole time was busy in Russia fighting against GB not Russia....

bollox,you threw the might of the lufftwaffe against these shores a year before you turned on russia,and went home licking your wounds.....
and all that about the german navy,dont make me laugh, the only time surface vessels broke out of port they were hammered by RN and RAF,utter tosh mate.Like I said,the U boats came close to hampering supplies but only for the tiny period when you upgraded your cyphers.

It was in the best interest of the US to make sure Germany would NOT be domineering the continent....

Really,thats odd,USA had some VERY lucrative contracts with germany/nazi germany. IBMs Jew finding computor to name just one....to USA,better nazi germany it could trade with than peoples republic of europa/soviet satalite state.
Bratwurst Boy  8 | 11710  
16 Jan 2008 /  #457
the hun had from june 6th 1940 to febuary 1942(when first US units arrived in UK ) to "kick our arses" and failed miserably. Face it, gitler never came close to subjuing the British nation and never would have

The Brits run with their tails between the legs from Dunkirk, you tried to lock heads with the Wehrmacht in Norway again and lost again.

You only made it back at D-Day under the umbrella of overwhelming material- and air superiority of the US.
You kicked nobodies arse!

Germany would have subjugated the islands easily if there would have been the same concentration behind it like for example in Russia...
But Hitler was never as interested in british arse...that's why he let you run away in Dunkirk...
BubbaWoo  33 | 3502  
16 Jan 2008 /  #458
doesnt matter what you say brat - germany still lost and thats all there is to it
isthatu  3 | 1164  
16 Jan 2008 /  #459
The Brits run with their tails between the legs from Dunkirk

bollox,French command collapsed,we were under french command,our flanks manned by the french and belgians disapeared and we evacuated 360.000 troops from dunkirk,troops that went on to kick rommels arse all over africa.

You really love sticking up for the LOSING side dont you. Newsflash,YOU LOST THE WAR....for the second time in 20 odd years YOU LOST,so argue your theories as much as you like,YOU LOST. You tried to subjegate a continent and ended up with half your gene pool russian. ha ha,duetshland uber alles,yes,above all at getting backsides spanked in wars of agression.
southern  73 | 7059  
16 Jan 2008 /  #460
But Hitler was never as interested in british arse...that's why he let you run away in Dunkirk...

Hitler personally gave the fatal order to the Panzerdivisions to stop their advance and let English escape in Dunkerk.If he had not intervened bitish forces would have been encircled and all harbours would have fallen in german hands.
Bratwurst Boy  8 | 11710  
16 Jan 2008 /  #461
bollox,French command collapsed,we were under french command,our flanks manned by the french and belgians disapeared and we evacuated 360.000 troops from dunkirk,troops that went on to kick rommels arse all over africa.

Och nö....not another one who thinks the biggest chasing action was actually a big win!

It's no use discussing it any further....

You really love sticking up for the LOSING side dont you. Newsflash,YOU LOST THE WAR....for the second time in 20 odd years YOU LOST,so argue your theories as much as you like,YOU LOST. You tried to subjegate a continent and ended up with half your gene pool russian. ha ha,duetshland uber alles,yes,above all at getting backsides spanked in wars of agression.

PS: The question was "Who was most important for the allied WIN"....so yes I know the Axis lost and I tried to give and explain my opinion.

I can't help it if it isn't to your liking! :)

Makes me a Nazi, yes?
isthatu  3 | 1164  
16 Jan 2008 /  #462
Makes me a Nazi, yes?

No,just a hun :)
BubbaWoo  33 | 3502  
16 Jan 2008 /  #463
sorry... which country had occupying armies for the last half century or so...? definately not mine... england never never never shall be slaves
Bratwurst Boy  8 | 11710  
16 Jan 2008 /  #464
Just a friendly advise....don't believe TV or movies that much, just read some historians!
Also english ones would rather lean to my understanding of the war than to yours....you might learn something...

PS: Calling a German a hun is another sign of historical misunderstandings on the british side....

sorry... which country had occupying armies for the last half century or so...? definately not mine... england never never never shall be slaves

They would have been without the Russians and the US on their side!

....which was the question....
BubbaWoo  33 | 3502  
16 Jan 2008 /  #465
They would have been without the Russians and the US on their side!

lets keep a firm grip on reality and try and leave hypothetical supositions out of this
Bratwurst Boy  8 | 11710  
16 Jan 2008 /  #466
You must see that hypothetical:

How would the war had gone if Russia and Germany maintained peace and the US would had sat back disinterested and totally neutral?

There you have your answer....
matthias  3 | 429  
16 Jan 2008 /  #467
Bratwurst I agree US was more powerful then Britain during WW2 but the question is who contributed more. If talking about the most powerful of the allies. It would go like this US RUSSIA UK FRANCE POLAND

However talking about contribution I think RUSSIA UK US POLAND FRANCE . JUST MY OPINION
osiol  55 | 3921  
16 Jan 2008 /  #468
hun

Some people use hun as a term of endearment.
Oh! Wrong kind of hun.
Lukasz  49 | 1746  
16 Jan 2008 /  #469
US RUSSIA UK FRANCE POLAND

Russia US UK Poland France

we were 4th
matthias  3 | 429  
16 Jan 2008 /  #470
Bratwurst I agree US was more powerful then Britain during WW2 but the question is who contributed more. If talking about the most powerful of the allies. It would go like this US RUSSIA UK FRANCE POLAND

However talking about contribution I think RUSSIA UK US POLAND FRANCE . the most powerful countries didn't always make the greatest contribution.
BubbaWoo  33 | 3502  
16 Jan 2008 /  #471
how the war would have gone in different circumstances is academic - it didnt happen and we can only speculate

what did happen, and is recorded in history for future generations to remember, is that germany was put firmly in its place, twice, in a fifty year period
Bratwurst Boy  8 | 11710  
16 Jan 2008 /  #472
how the war would have gone in different circumstances is academic - it didnt happen and we can only speculate

Do I talk against a wall here?

It's not about who won or lost....the question was who was most important for the win of the allies!
For that you just have to answer yourself some questions...take a country out of the equation, see what would most likely to happen and there you have your answer!

But for some it is definitely to hard to think about....

Bratwurst I agree US was more powerful then Britain during WW2 but the question is who contributed more.

It was the american material and air superiority which made fighting at the western front so difficult for the mostly second and often third rate german troops...

Max Hastings has a lot to tell about that! Recommendable
BubbaWoo  33 | 3502  
16 Jan 2008 /  #473
of course england was the most important country - we were there at the start and we were there at the end... who else can say that without having to conceed to a bottom spanking in between...?
Bratwurst Boy  8 | 11710  
16 Jan 2008 /  #474
what did happen, and is recorded in history for future generations to remember, is that germany was put firmly in its place, twice, in a fifty year period

Are you proud of that Bubba?
Again you needed the US to win this war....you maintained a cruel blockade which did cost nearly one million of german civilians to die of hunger to force the Germans to subscribe to a highly disputed treaty which sowed the seeds of hate for Adolf Hitler to reape who just a few years later would start a new war which did cost Europe much more...

But at least some Brits can beat their chests proudly!
matthias  3 | 429  
16 Jan 2008 /  #475
Lukasz that list that you made was for most powerful or for biggest contribution?

Like to point out Poles are some of the best strategist but they never have the technology or numbers to match for them to be powerful. On the otherhand US crappy strategists throughout history but what saves them is either their numbers or technology or sometimes both

Can we at least agree that France contributed the least.
BubbaWoo  33 | 3502  
16 Jan 2008 /  #476
maintained a cruel blockade which did cost nearly one million of german civilians to die of hunger to force the Germans to subscribe to a highly disputed treaty which sowed the seeds for Adolf Hitler who just a few years later would start a new war which did cost Europe much more...

geez mate, that sounds suspiciously like passing the blame... are you sure youre not polish?
matthias  3 | 429  
16 Jan 2008 /  #478
Bratwurst: I am beginning to agree with you here's my revised list. Russia US UK Poland Canada France I think Lukasz came up with it before. Revised it after reading up on the internet and this forum.
Bratwurst Boy  8 | 11710  
16 Jan 2008 /  #479
I would agree...and definitely put Poland in front of France and Canada!
Lukasz  49 | 1746  
16 Jan 2008 /  #480
biggest contribution?

rather contribution

geez mate, that sounds suspiciously like passing the blame... are you sure youre not polish?

next in que with Wroclaw boy ( :) ) and Istahu ... (joke)

I think it is anti Polish forum I leave this place and will never back. I think this forum hurt my psyche to much and brainwashed my fresh young tolerant mind.

after reading so many anti Polish posts I realizted that in some way we are simillar to Jews and started to feel symphaty towards them... (not towards you Istahu) ...

and for our Turk friends in Germany: Make LOVE :)))) For our Pakistan friends in UK: make LOVE :))) (and vote in elections on your people :) )

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