Gdansk and it's history with Poland

BB


Sorry, I'm not in a position to answer right now. Theoretically, I could inconvenience myself to no end to provide for you exactly what it will take to convince you of most anything even partially ambiguously against the German nation, but in that case, maybe it shouldn't be too hard for you, either? There is a limit to how much time I have on my hands that I wish to use browsing the web for obscure topics for the betterment of people who I know scarcely at best, though such time exists, and trying to dig up Davies' citations on this claim for free have already caused me to go over it. I know it's not your fault, but it's just not happening at this point in time.


If that is the case, please do, in fact, find a better one, and I'll thank you for it. Though, since any historian that claims 'evidence that Copernicus spoke the Polish language' could just be written off by you as 'Polonophilic', that will likely be very difficult.

I'm sure that, say, Adam Zamoyski for example would have put in some input on the topic, but even I don't like citing the guy in favor of Poland.

Don't sweat it, but make sure you have a viable link to support your claims next time.


What??? Now I should provide the proof for YOUR claim???
And I told you before that we had already a lengthy and passionate discussion about the heritage of Kopernikus here on PF before...many pages long.

We found lot's of stuff and facts and some disputed claims (you could search the forum, you will easily find this thread) but nobody could find a proof that he ever used polish, hence the interest for your claim!


Nope...any evidence will be enough but just saying so isn't!

This whole Kopernik issue discussion is getting pretty boring anyway.

Can't we all just agree that he was Polish and end this silly argument?

;)

Then I claim Nicola Tesla for Austria! ;)
*looks around for Crowie*

(He was for sure ethnical Serb but was subject to
the austrian Empire....so there)

What about a book title, author, and page number where said evidence could be found?

I don't claim to 'know' the statement made to have been true, myself, but I think it's just silly to write it off without doing just so much to check...

First of all, he is a sociologist not a historian.


His "facts" are so wrong and his scholarship so faulty that his works could be called historical pornography for Jews.

You might want to email Princeton: they employ him as a history professor.


And Marie Curie is Russian. OK she was an ethnic Pole and used Polish as her main language but she was a subject of the Russian empire!

it isnt right but he did mention in his books that he did shorten the names or anglicise them to make the books easier to read and to follow the array of characters.

Exactly what I meant by condescending.

not really, my last name has 12 letters, and the only ones to pronounce it correctly are either poles or slavs. so, i can see why he did....i would have more issue with my uncle shortening his name than some author of a book.

When reading a book it is not necessary to know how to pronounce names! All you need to do is recognise the word when you see it.

i understand what you're saying...but can also see why he has chosen to do that.

What's wrong with "Bor-Komorowski"? Even I have no problems with that.
Calling him "Boor" IS curious to say at least...(and it is not even an anglicism and I think the General wouldn't like to be called that way in a work of history)

I know they do. He is not a historian though.



wiki

I think we can probably rely in the history department of Princeton university to judge who is and is not a historian.

princeton.edu/history/people/display_person.xml?netid=jtgross

Historians usually study history not physics and sociology.

As to Princton, please. Yale and Harvard turned out such geniuses as...George Bush.

Ouch! :)

I'll remind you of that next time you talk about the Kielce pogrom.


Quite what that has to do with Jan Gross I have no idea.

You seem to attach some great importance to Ivy League schools.

In this case they hired a sociologist to teach history. Duh?

And the geniuses were taught by frauds such as the polonophobe Kosinski, who was (among others) a lecturer at Yale and Princeton. He was a plagiarist and a liar. Luckily for all, Kosinski conducted a very late term abortion upon himself. He was not the first, nor unfortunately, the last Jew who lied about Poles.

So much for the Princeton argument.

That was a nice try too, little Gross.


Yeah, he was a beauty, although I liked his Being There.

there is nothing wrong with it...but you're of european extraction.

having grown up as a first gen in australia believe me, borkomorowski would pose many pronounciation issues.

The town was ethnically German long before that.

Not that long, the town had a Polish majority for at least half a thousand years, nearly a thousand Polish knights fighting for the Teutons came from Gdańsk, Germans become a clear majority only in 16th-17th century.

As for the city itself, it was built by Poles over a thousand years ago, how can you get a better claim than that?

Poles?
In 1379 a masonry master Heinrich Ungeradin with his team started construction work on the St. Mary's Church (Polish: Bazylika Mariacka, German: Marienkirche) or, properly, Basilica of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary in Gdańsk

Since 1485 the works were carried over by Hans Brandt, who supervised the erection of the main nave core. The works were finally finished after 1496 under Heinrich Haetzl.

The accounting books from 1379 – 1382 contain information on the expenditures on building materials and works carried out in the Town Hall by the bricklayer Heinrich Ungeradin. The works concerned the reconstruction and extension of the building to the west.

Heinrich and Hans, those are nice Polish names.

At the end of the 16th and beginning of the 17th century, this interior was decorated by artists of the golden age of Gdańsk arts, including such masters as: Izaak van den Block, Hans Vredeman de Vries, Willem van der Meer, Anton Moeller and Szymon Herle. Overall administration of the works was managed by Dutchman, Anton van Obberghen, who at the time held the position of town builder.

Izaak van den Block, Hans Vredeman de Vries, Willem van der Meer and Anton Moeller, all good Polish names. As is Anton van Obberghen. Oh bugger, they say he's Dutch.

The specific atmosphere of Gdańsk is also created by its bells. In 2000 a new outstanding 37-bell carillon was installed in the town hall tower The carillon was built by the Dutch bells and carillon manufacturer, Royal Eijsbouts in Asten.

* Green Gate in Gdańsk (built in 1564–1568 by Hans Kramer, a.k.a. Jan Krakowi)

* Upland Gate in Gdańsk (Willem van den Blocke finished it in 1588 and is better known by his given name: Willem van den Kowalski).

* Great Arsenal in Gdańsk (built in 1602–1606 by Anton van Obberghen, the Polish Dutchman)

* Old City Hall in Gdańsk (built in 1587–1595) probably by Anton van Obberghen, probably Polish)

that pretty enigmatic statement could be more specific?


So what?
Its only proves what should be known anyway, Poles at the time regardless of ethnicity were warriors, soldiers, statesman's, land owners,
workers, specialists and merchants were foreign or of foreign origin!
Do you have a problem with that?